curious_scouter

I also wonder how this works in conjunction with the requirement that all aspects of the program be open to observation by parents or leaders. If Mr. Dad demands to attend a campout to observe, does that FORCE us to take Mr. Dad onto our committee (whether we want to or not) just to permit him that right? Or do we just say "If you insist, then your Scout cannot attend because you are unable to attend without being regsitered"

I was using this loophole as a way to "qualify" new ASMs and parents. We have an influx of new scouts and parents. The parents don't know me and my leaders, we don't know them. But as soon as a parent comes into the picture I ask about their interest in outing participation. If they have one, I first encouraged them to register as a MB counselor. We need more anyway. In our council this meant a background check, registration with Scouts BSA and YPT being recorded. That established a minimum bar for my comfort level on youth safety for them to attend an outing. Then I would invite them to attend a few outings, and eventually if they wanted to continue attending regularly (not TOO eventually) I'd say they needed to buck up and get into a unit registered position. But by then we'd have a sense of where they best fit in our unit and the role they could play. This was very beneficial. It allowed me to have a concentrated set of ASMs who were fully trained and most commonly attended (and always lead) outings but a larger bench of additional "reserve scouters" I could call on when needed. A lot parents in my unit are like "I really can't commit to most outings or meetings, but once or twice a year I'd love to go if you need me". Allowed me to use those people without saying "Great it'll be $90 a year" Or like if we're going to do a huge pioneering project on a campout and I just need a few more adult hands. There were also a few people who just did not pan out. We took them on outings and we learned - it wasn't for them. For whatever reason. This "try before you buy" was a great method. The COST of being unit registered is pretty high now just to go find out if you like camping with the unit. I will really miss having these options and predict it will lead to months where I'm required to cancel the outing due to lack of paid registered adults being available. IMO this is not about youth protection - the MBC registration mandates that anyway and those people are allowed to meet with our youth regularly as part of the program. I still view this as a money grab.

It's not a tradition yet, but we've had 5 boys this year who will all turn 18 before April. We've made a habit of having the last outing they attend have some kind of going away party and some aspect focused on their favorite part of scouting. Like a fishing outing followed by an elaborate dinner by their Patrol and then the Scoutmasters supply a pile of cobbler and desserts and we give a later lights out that night. Leading up to their last meetings and outings, I announce it and do lead up recognition in my opening recognition segment as well.

I use the left as often as I can. Esp. for scout stuff. As mentioned, on successful BOR, after a SM conf, any time a Scout approaches me as a Scout and I want to say "Great encounter". All leaders line up at COH and congratulate the Scouts as the come up and use the handshake. Thanks to covid, the left handed fist bump will often serve as a faster and more casual version in our unit now. You'll see that a lot for things like when a patrol pulls off an especially great dinner, lots of left handed fist bumping in celebration. It's nothing to be super hardcore about, but I think this scout-scout greeting is still a relevant part of our interactions.

believe, I've thought about it. Should be possible honestly. I mean... from a "can it be done" not a "will it be done" perspective.

1 - don't care 2 - don't care 3 - Kinda like it 4 - Hard no. Hate it. Why? Standard of advancement changes. Unless they change it for AOL too. Standard for completing in Cubs is "Do your best". And most / many requirement say "With help if necessary". I believe pretty strongly you need to know the Scout Oath and law to get your Scout badge. It's not a huge lift from the standards of Cubs but it's a very important first step IMO to leaving "do your best" behind.

Good info in here, I do like the tips about viewing this as "selection" vs. "election". Another thing I'd like to share is around eligibility. Don't rely exclusively on things like your troop's website for eligibility. We had a few Scouts who had transferred to our troop in the past year, their camping history was not complete on our website so they were overlooked but eligible. Caused a bit of a fiasco because the ballots were nicely pre-printed by the elections team based on what an ASM told them from the troop web host report. Now, I'm having ASMs work to re-compile all camping history into Scoutbook with the hope and idea that it'll make it easier to have a consolidated record and should a youth leave our unit for whatever reason we've done them a potential favor in that the activity follows them on Scoutbook vs. getting stuck on our TWH subscription.

Looking for actual experience from unit leaders on how they have let College Reserve Scouter scouters participate and especially any links to actual materials on the topic from Scouts BSA. This year we'll have 7 Scouts who turn 18 between Jan 2023 and May 1, 2023. They have not yet started college, but most will head that way in August/September 2023. Several have asked me about registering as College Reserve. I'm open to it. They were all great leaders as Scouts, could certainly continue to be a value to our program. I'm challenged because I can't find much guidance, outside of the obvious "must train and follow YPT as an adult", about how to set expectations about their future participation. I think the people asking me about this role are thinking this is a way to keep attending campouts and hanging out with their buddies who are still in the program. For example I was asked by one "Could I still camp with them, just not share a tent." So I want to be crystal clear with these newly minted adults about how it would work, right up front. I love Scouting. I love that they love it and want to continue doing it. I love the friendships they made as a youth are so strong they don't want to give it up yet. I love that it kills them their just-recently-fellow-scouts are out camping this weekend and they can't be there with them. So I really want to say "Sure!". But I don't think that's the idea behind CSR, sadly. I think by design scouting as a youth is a time-limited engagement and as depressing as it is, we all have to close that chapter when we turn 18. If you want to keep hanging with your buddies and doing SCOUT stuff with them - a venture crew is how you do that and why we allow you there until you're 21 to operate as a "Scout" and not a "Scouter". If you want to assume the role of an adult leader but can only do it on occasion due to college responsibilities, CSR is here for you. But when you participate in that role it's as an adult leader - not an extension of your youth experience. You do what the other adults do on an outing in our unit: Make yourself available, but scarce. Cook, clean and camp with the adult patrol... not your former patrol across the way. When your former Patrol goes out on some activity, you would not normally go with them "for fun" but only if your attending fulfilled some supervisory need for the activity.

Yeah loss/damage of a book happens. Our SPL announces "Everyone, take pictures of your book tonight" at the first meeting of every month for this exact reason. The adv chair also snaps photos at every BOR and attaches them to the note in SB for the BOR so they are preserved. It's better than nothing and avoids a full rebuild.

Also an advocate for paper book. In our unit that's the official record. Today SB is updated by our adv chair after a successful BOR but does not include the individual requirement dates - only the BOR is updated. We have a handful of newer Scouts and families entering progress directly. You need to set expectations with them. As many are coming in from Cubs, their belief is they are "signing off" on the requirement by doing that. They get frustrated to find out later it's really just a "heads up" the Scout is ready to test on those. They still need to meet with someone in the unit authorized to sign off on requirements. But.. if you can get ahead of expectations I think it's really handy to be able to see the actual progress of the troop online at a glance. I'm a data driven guy. Someone has volunteered to start loading Scout-->First class status into SB for us time to time. This will help us because we can then pull reports from SB and find out like "23 Scouts need this specific requirement". The PLC can use that to plan meetings and outings that have more impact. Because MBs go straight into SB we have been able to do this kind of report for Eagle Required badges. That's helped the PLC as well as the leadership. It's been helping us to help scouts avoid panic later "Hey buddy, you have like 10 eagle required badges left to finish and you're getting older. Might want to knock off 3 or 4 at summer camp this year and keep your eyes open for other chances to get them done." It's been very beneficial, just that bit of "hey buddy" has been enough to encourage some good decisions and proactive action.

wow!

I don't feel like transparency and pragmatic measures are mutually exclusive. In fact, to borrow your phrase the only acceptable position these days is that Youth Protection comes first. If you as a parent feel obligated to observe and are unwilling to take the most basic Youth Protection steps - then I am sorry. The protection of all the other youth is as important as your youth and I must decline your attendance, and therefor your Scout's. I will not let anyone who has not minimally taken YPT attend an outing with our Troop. If that person intends to attend regularly, I require them to get registered so we have the benefit of insurance, background check, and formal YPT tracking. Under no circumstances would I just let someone walk in off the street and attend an outing where they have hours of potentially unsupervised access to the youth of my troop with no training. That would be negligent IMO.

Maybe a bit more back on topic... how have your units handled this scenario: New scout joins, often via crossover from cubs but sometimes as they move into town from away. Parents want to join us on a few outings. On the one hand as a parent - I get this. I don't really care how much training and YPT a bunch of adult volunteers have had... I'm going to find it very difficult if not impossible to get comfortable with the idea of sending my child off into the outdoors with a bunch of people I don't know at all. On the flip side, my established leadership is not wild on the idea of unregistered adults who could end up not understanding/espousing the idea of letting the Scout do and being "helicopter parents". I get this also. My compromise thus far has been 1) require YPT to attend 2) meet with said parent to set expectations, giving them the benefit of the doubt that they are adult humans and if I express my expectations and desire for adult behavior on an outing they will respect that. I'm too new to know how naive this is

Late to the party but plaques and gifts for AOLs in my unit was always covered by the parents. Some parent groups wanted to drop hundreds on mega trophies, my group bought arrows and learned how to crest arrows so we could keep cost down and give something hand-made. For "decorations" our crossovers are always outdoors and if there's any "decorating" it's done by the Troop and usually is some form of lashed together furniture/bridges from our already-owned ropes and poles inventory. Not much to spend on for decorating and doing it outside with a campfire makes it night IMO. Our Pack used to provide the neckerchiefs and buy pinewood kits for all the Scouts for Christmas. Since the AOLs did not do pinewood and already had their necker, they would get a mess kit or fork/knife/spoon kit instead as something they can use in Scouts. The Pack I was in also offered to reimbursed families for the scout handbook if their scout was still active in the troop at the next recharter. I thought that was nice, but don't think it's needed. Our Troop covers the neckerchief, green epaulets, and green numbers for all incoming AOLs. But, these are all well known, long-established, agreed on, budgeted items.

What's your takes on MB counselors? My understanding is G2SS does not say the registered adult leaders have to be leaders in your unit. So for example, a Den Leader from the Pack or a MB Counselor are both registered leaders with BSA. As long as they were YPT and did not present a concern to me about having enough qualified supervision - I would be able to leverage either should I ever need to fill 2-up for our Troop. FWIW, I am generally happy to allow any interested adult to come camping. Camping is fun, they should get to enjoy it - with the adult Patrol. My ask as SM is that any non-ASM who wishes to attend consult with me before committing. It's important to me to set expectations on how to conduct oneself as an adult on a Scouts BSA outing. I need them to understand "the way" and ensure they will let the Scouts do. In the end, we are required to allow parents to observe any aspect of the program they wish. Noone can really say a parent is not allowed to come camping as far as I understand. They must be permitted if they insist. "All aspects of the Scouting program are open to observation by parents and leaders."

In our Troop there is always a succession plan. If you're a Scout, and there are other adult leaders, I'd start by asking them if they know of his succession plan.

awesome stuff.

congrats!

Thanks all, good ideas and options to consider. We're looking mainly at 55gallon plastic drums and 5 gallon buckets as options. Concern on the drums is safety. Even if "emptied" ... they can't be dried like a bucket, we worry what would "cook" in them between use. And it's hard to get inside them to REALLY clean them if something happens. As shower water or source for KP water - maybe. I think we're leaning towards 5 gallon buckets. I think we can probably reach out to some food places (firehouse?) locally and score a deal on the quantity we need. Google seems to say they are food safe. They are manageable to carry with 1-2 Scouts. They can be stacked full, they can be stacked upside down in a pyramid empty to dry. Once dry, they nest so you can store a bunch in a "column" in the storage space. They can be sent home ahead of an outing and brought along, similar to the "bring 2 gallons" idea but with reusable containers. We can use them in other ways during the year (as cones for games for example). We need one or two at the fire anyway so having them in 5 gallon buckets already supports that. And while full with a lid on they make pretty good seats for around the fire. I think I just talked myself into buckets...

We have a largeish troop and are in a hot area. This adds up to needing quite a bit of water on outings. I don't know a good "formula" but I think the conventional wisdom is 2 gallons per scout per outing for drinking and I would venture 5 gallons per patrol for cleanup. Give or take. We do like to go some places without a water supply. So this means carting in water. For a large outing we'll have 30-40 souls in 3-5 patrols. Which by my previous math means we need to cart in over 100 gallons of water OR be prepared to filter. Or a little of each. One approach we've used for a long time is that on those outings each Scout brings 2 gallons (usually two 1-gallon jugs) and then each patrol has 1 igloo 5 gallon drink thing full for water bottle refill and cooking + a 5 gallon bucket with a lid for KP water. This seems to work but with 30-40 souls generates 60-80 empty plastic containers. They carry out what they carry in, but man... its a LOT of waste per outing. So... this may be one of those "non problems" because what we do works. But I'm curious to know what others do.

Thanks for all the info!

I have 4 ASMs who are showing as "not trained". They all took IOLS at an out of council summer camp, I have scans of their signed training cards. Assuming that'll clear that up. But they all show as needing S24, but every one of them has completed the online SM/ASM position specific training. Should I just not worry about what the report is saying? Or should I try to get it updated?

Is the online position-specific training for ASM/SM not sufficient for the "trained" designation? online reports seem to imply "S24" is required and that maps to position specific training in the current training codes doc (https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/currentandpasttrainingcodes.pdf ) which just says position specific training but then the actual Trained Leader Status report seems to indicate classroom training is mandatory for this vs. the online?

I think we'll see about 10% drop after recharter in our Troop. Just a guess based on what "I've heard" but I would put money on it. The cub bump is great to see. I do hope that in the years to come that means the "feeder" of Cubs --> Troop will be revived. 2 years ago, our Troop saw 20 new Scouts come in from Cubs. Last year 12. This year we expect 3. Behind that tiny batch is 6, so I hope we might see it climb back up to around 10 a year which would be a sustainable number but in the next 2 years we'll see a smaller Troop than we've had for 10 years due to the Covid impact and the dried up cub scout feeder.

Are these national numbers @malraux?