Eagle94-A1

That is becaus up to1989, there was no such thing as a NSP. From 1972 to 1989 you had mixed aged patrols, aka traditional patrols, and the Leadership Corps of older Scouts. I know that at one time BSA had Explorers in troops for the older guys, but do not know the time frame. So mixed aged patrols are the traditional patrol recommended by National from 1910 to 1989, and many units continue to use traditional patrols after national started recommending NSPs because the traditional patrol works. It's not a matter of ignoring what nationals tells us to do, it is a matter continueing to use

Agree 110%. When I was the "Troop Guide" (I was doing this in 1986 and it was called Patrol Leader at that time) It was extremely challenging trying to get the new Scouts up to speed. Instead of increasing morale, allowing us to focus on their advancement, getting htem better in tune with Scouting etc, there were arguments, no one wanting to listen, and not enough help from older Scouts on the camp outs b/c they were with their patrols. And our SM only interfered once, and that was when I was at my breaking point and the SPL took over my patrol while the SM had a chat with me. I say it was acc

The reason Is stated the use of statistics on First Class Scouts for the creation of NSPs is because that is what national used to justify creating the NSP model. The more I think about it, more I realize LDS units must have influenced its creation since their stats would skew traditional patrols since the y keep all the 11 years olds separate. In fact if you think about it, they are aged based, i.e. 11 years olds separate from the rest of the troop; 12-13 in the troop; 14-18 Varsity et Not just where you live. In the three states I've seen it used, the only way it was "succe

My understanding was that the NSP concept was based upon research that showed Scouts who earned First Class in a year stay with the program. My argument against this was this: what does the data show about how active the troop is? I asked it in 1989 and continue to ask it, but get no response. However the more I read and hear about the LDS program and their 11 Year Old Boy Scout program, and how it is identical to the NSP concept, It is a logical assumption that LDS Scouts influenced the data back in the 1980s and National used their model for the NSP concept. The issue therefore with the

1) As I stated, the caps are for emphasis, not shouting. I guess I could Bold or underline or even italicize for emphasis, but I admit I'm lazy and caps works easiest. 2) You may studies are all over the place, and yes they are. But look at the methodologies used. Some of the research uses methods that leave out factors. Heck even some of the pro single gender ones have questionable methodologies. But if you look at the studies for single gender as a whole, there are fewer problems with them overall than with coed studies. 3) If you want, I'll not only pull up my research from back in

GOODS NEW: Son is suppose to be contacting his SM to finish the last 2 MBs needed and his SM conference for Life. BOR is scheduled for the 28th. BAD NEWS: Why do I feel old ? (sorry couldn't resist)

We've have similar issues with my troop. At first it was not a problem. Now it is because it seems as if everyone is bringing their kids. At least when my youngest went camping in June, he was a Webelos. If it wasn't't for that fact, he would not have went. The parents I mentioned earlier brought their Tiger with them and let him lose. Yes he was all over, thankfully not in a canoe. Sad thing is that these parents are volunteers, and do not see what the problem is or how they are hurting their sons.

I am against allowing girls in Boy Scout troops for a variety of reasons, but in a nutshell BOYS LEARN BETTER IN AN ALL MALE ENVIRONMENT JUST AS GIRLS LEARN BETTER IN AN ALL GIRL ENVIRONMENT! (caps for emphasis). Heck Surbaugh evens mentions that in the jambo video thatis online. If it hurts the boys I'm against it. I am also againt partnering with or creating a parallel program because PEOPLE WILL IGNORE THE SEGREGATION AND GO COED ANYWAY. ( emphasis again) IF IT HURTS THE BOYS, I AM AGAINST IT! ( This time I'm shouting, mostly at the national folks who are shoving this down our thro

BRAVO ZULU!

I've previously stated how one volunteer will create a "paper girls unit" and fully integrate the girls into the Boy Scout troop, irregardless of what national wants.

With all due respect @@RichardB, We all know that if a "Parallel Program" comes about, we will have "paper girl units" and they will be integrated with the boys. Heck I already have one parent waiting for the announcement so his daughter can join. From a discussion :Financially it's two expensive to have two sets of camping equipment and having two sets of summer camp and weekend camp outs. Plus add the time committement for the Scouters, i.e. having two sets of weekely meetings, camp outs, and summer camps. Full blown coed is the only way. YES FAMILY SCOUTING DOES IMPLY CUB SCOUT

I've seen "Family Scouting" four times now. As a youth, my troop did a family trip. Originally not a family trip, the scouts planned for a year what they were going to do. At the last minute it became a family tip. THE MOMS SCREWED UP THE TRIP FOR US. That troop did not do another family camp out until everyone by myself and one ASM had left. It was OK, but it was not a true Scout trip. Last year my current troop did a trip that had one family show up. very skeptical, but it worked out OK. Problem was this: it opened the doors to families coming on trips. June's camp out had issu

I do not know if the individual had his membership revoked or not, but I had to report a youth staffer who propositioned another youth staffer. Long story short, once it was reported, the camp director removed the individual from camp.

That's because it's a job for them and not a movement.

They are also limiting discussion. there is a very set Discussion guide that the folks need need to read verbatim and follow. Trying to go off topic and address real issues I and others see at my town hall was non fully possible. I do not know if some of those concerns were written in the notes the SE wrote, but the ones I was able to get out were not discussed or talked about. In defense of the Scout Executives, or at least mine, he was ticked off at how national is doing this. He stated he received the instructions for this the day before he left for jamboree. He did not appreciate that.

Gee, I don't know. It did get Bill Hillcourt out of retirement to write the handbook I grew up with. Seriously, I think the decision to go coed is the worse one to date. But I am also a realist. If we are forced to go coed, and we are, then we need to do it correctly, otherwise the "sexist" and "bigoted" perception will continue to exist, and numerous packs and troops will ignore national and fully integrate, having a paper unit for the girls.

Maybe I am naive, but I would not lump the DEs into the same category as the CSE and SEs. They are sometimes in the dark like the rest of us. Heck I was the one that told the DE about the transgender membership change. But some of them too see this happening though. Mine told me how when he went to TX, the word "boy" was not used to describe membership, "families" was used in its place.

Agree with retiring Eagle if we go coed, but suggest Turkey instead of Phoenix. Maybe a Blue Jay since they are nest robbers.

I said it once, I'll say it again, the model being proposed, specifically Coed Cubs, Single Gender Scout, Coed Venturing WILL NOT WORK IN THE USA. (caps for emphasis not shouting.) Partnering with an organization will not work because existing ones do not want to work with us. Plus one of them, GSUSA, has a program that royally sucks from the amount of complaints I hear and read about. As for starting our own program, BSA did just that in 1910 with Campfire Girls. It went its own way then. But in today's PC world, you know that BSA creating a girl-only program would only raise the how

I see it happening, and see it happening fast. We already have 3 girls chomping at the bit. And a 4th would have done it if she would not age out before it occurs. And I see the local Frontier Girls folding and merging. And I see it happening with every unit in my district save 2: the LDS troop, and the baptist Church which uses Scouting for their 'At-risk Youth" Ministry. They only want Boys b/c they are the ones they are trying to keep out of trouble.

His thoughts are the following and I'm paraphrasing. It makes no sense to have 2 Scout aged groups meeting on separate nights and doing separate activities, especially when you are trying to promote accomodating families.If you have 2 separate groups, that means leaders will have two separate nights for meetings, and two different weekends for activities. The leaders will burn out faster, and we are already having a hard time getting new leaders. I admit I personally am against going coed. I know boys do better in a single gender environment. IO also know that it seems as if there is a

Some will say that it is not the program they signed up for. And they would be correct. Some will say that it now a program detrimental to boys. And they are correct. even the CSE states that research shows boys do better in a single gender environment. Some will say that they do not want to be involved with units that are "pushing the envelope." I admit I am uncomfortable with one Scouter willing to ignore a "separate but equal" program and push to fully integrate. Some will say they are concerned with Youth Protection issues. I know I am. Again I had one parent already talking ab

Agree with Flagg and Gwaihir above. I'll add though that I will be following the lead of my sons. Oldest is not looking forward to it, and I don't know what he will do. Middle son says it's a bad idea, but again do not know what he will do. I do know of one troop that will stay all male, and they may want to join them. Heck the more I see of that troop, I wish I would have taken oldest to see them as they are a true, Scout-led, active troop. I am going to throw in a conversation I had with a parent on this topic. 1) If BSA creates a "separate but equal" program, he will do everythin

I was one of those Scouts who initially could not afford a full uniform. There were green trousers and shorts nearly identical to the BSA pants and shorts. In fact, the shorts had the 6" rule, you had to be 6 inches away and looking at the snaps to tell the difference. I wore those for a few years. Over time, I was able to obtain official pants and shorts from a thrift store. In fact, I went into "business" going to the thrift store near my high school, buying uniform items, and reselling them to Scouts in the troop. I got the patches, they got the uniform items. WIN-WIN And I agree with