DuctTape

I can the the CC, SM and CO Rep now settling in on the phrase, "Perhaps our troop is not the right fit for you and your boys, here is the number for council xxx to help you find another troop more to your liking. We will not be rechartering your family as members."

I think it would be awesome if a bunch of us gathered around a real campfire someday.

I understand what you are saying, but I don't agree. Many organizations and companies whose names switched to (or always were) acronyms have been able to stick with the acronym even though the historical terms may be obsolete. For example: YMCA, KFC, AMF, 3M to name a quick few.

I belong to a number of outdoor focused organizations. Some of which have been asked for volunteers to help local GSUSA troops do more outdoor based activities.

Yes, but he was also clear that it was by being a scout, following the scout law and helping others is the entirety of one's service. By Baden-Powell Very closely allied with education comes the important matter of religion. Though we hold no brief for anyone form of belief over another, we see a way to helping all by carrying the same principle into practice as is now being employed in other branches of education, namely, to put the boys in touch with their objective, which in this case is to do their duty to God through doing their duty to their neighbor. In helping others in doing daily good turns, and in rescuing those in danger, pluck, self-discipline, unselfishness, chivalry, become acquired, and quickly form part of their character. These attributes of character, coupled with the right study of Nature, must of necessity help to bring the young soul in closer touch spiritually with God. (1912)

I am sorry you felt I was splitting hairs. It wasn't my intention.

Even for eagle requirements, there is subjectivity by the MB counselor for completing those requirements. When the scout is "tested" for the requirement regardless of whether a T-Fc rank, or for a mB, the subjectivity of whether it was completed to the signatories satisfaction is subjective. Of course some will have more agreement than others amongst scouters as far as what it looks like to satisfy the reqs, but my point stands that it is still subjective to a degree just as it is to show scout spirit. As fas as a BOR member, that is not the place to test the scout. However asking about the meal they assisted on, and how it went and what they learned from it. But those questions are a REVIEW of what the scout completed and not the test. If the scout cannot recall; that is ok. Perhaps a few other leading questions to get to the heart of their scouting experience and what they did, learned, and enjoyed since the last BOR.

I disagree that show scout spirit is the only subjective requirement. Almost all of them have a subjectivity to whether they were completed. For example in tender foot "...assist in preparing one of the meals..." A scout stands next to the camp cook and only takes the twist tie off the bag of bread. Does this fulfill the requirement of assist? Or do we expect more? I would bet many of us would disagree on what "assist" looks like in general, and also take into consideration the scout, the meal, the circumstances, etc... Thus fulfilling this requirement is also subjective. I would argue that almost all of the demonstrate and explain require a subjective analysis of whether they have been met.

If the scout spirit requirement is not signed off, then the scout did not complete all the requirements. All too often this is a "requirement" which is not required; it is checked off automatically. IMO this is wrong. Achievement of our mission is demonstrated by this requirement. Failure to require scouts to fulfill this requirement is a failure of our mission; and the scouts' fulfillment of rank requirements.

Like NJ, I did not look back to see if I ever responded. Also like NJ, I spent some summers at Massawepie. We also did our own summer trips as well. I recall a 5 day canoe trip in the Adirondacks as an older scout.

our "friends of...xxx" board was comprised of the troop committee. Regardless of the make-up, it would behouve any org to have a set of by-laws and an organizational structure which outlines the board, duties, elections, etc...

When you apply, your organization is "Friends of troop xxx". Do NOT reference BSA in the application.

We often write about the work vs the patch. You are doing the work. Keep it up young fella.

I wonder if the group here could collaborate to produce something better which we could all use? I am sure we all already do something quite good, but perhaps putting all our good together might become something great?

I have always seen the religious aspect of scouting (which I believe is also how BP envisioned it as "practical religion") is that by doing scouting right, service to others, personal growth, doing a good turn daily, living the scout law, etc... one is fulfilling their religious duty (whatever that may be). As BP put it, "to do their duty to God through doing their duty to their neighbor." At some point this seems to have been turned upside down which befuddles me.

Let's start a list of present day needs for tree identification skill. 1. Find "good firewood". 2. Identify species for lumber. 3. tracking invasive species (e.g. emerald ash borer). 4.

This is key. Before you talk to the "problem guy", talk to these folks and be sure you are on the same page about your vision, and expectations. If possible, garner their help with dealing with "the problem".

This may not work for you, but even at a State campground, there is often a main parking lot. Use that and then hike into the campground area. This will also free up space in the site to use. Do you have the support of any other adult leaders (besides grandpaw?)

The troop scribe's main responsibility is to record the goings on, decisions, etc... of the PLC. He then puts in writing the individual reports (after review by SPL) which go to the SM, TC, other boy leaders (webmaster, librarian... etc...) The patrol scribe is often the most important job. How often do we see a patrol lost in organization because they "didn't write something down". The scribe should record the goings on at patrol meetings, for organizational purposes and put into writing the patrol needs/wants for the PL, so PL (and/APL) can fully represent the patrol at PLC. I think the the job of a newsletter (if one exists) is now taken over by the "webmaster".

I thought Boyce started the lone scout program for rural boys?

I think most of the disagreement here stems from an official or formal "position of responsibility" as opposed to "a job". These are two very different things. The patrol QM might be for a single campout, or he might be so good at it, he continues for the entire year. Regardless, every patrol member should be doing something to help out, whether it is setting up the tents with his buddy, while two others gather firewood. The point is no patrol mate should be sitting around while others are doing something. Thus I have no issue saying "every patrol member needs a job". There are varying degrees of responsibility within the patrol and troop. I find it difficult to say a troop cannot have more than one QM for POR if there is enough responsibility to share. A troop with 8 patrols vs a troop with 2 patrols? Heck I have seen troop QMs when there was only one functional patrol. IMO most of the PORs are patches not responsibilty anyway in my observations. I would rather that requirement be changed to "service to my patrol, troop, pack over and beyond the basic expectations of a scout"(or something to that effect". The scout would need to demonstrate what he did which exceeds just showing up and leading the opening every once in a while. Sure it is subjective, but as I mentioned many get signed off by having a title without really doing anything. The official positions could still exist, and doing something while wearing the patch should be acceptable. But it is the doing and leading that matters.

Barry, I do not disagree with something that comes to light which may be so egregious that it is impossible for the scout to show he " accepts Scouting’s ideals and sets and meets good standards in his life. " Without insisting on perfection. How the scout responds to imperfection with a positive attitude " is most important...".

The EBOR is not the place. The SM signed off on Req #1; thus as the person whom the committee/CO has conferred authority to determine whether or not the scout has shown scout spirit the requirements were met. If the CO or committee has issue, they should take it up with the SM as they would any other subjective advancement requirement.

I think the best GBB Patrol stuff (outside the PL Handbook) is in the first Fieldbook. It is basically a "how to" manual from start to finish on how to be a patrol and do patrol things. A patrol could even just go in order, page by page.

the boys just camped this past weekend in the white stuff. in tents fri night, then lashed a ridgepole between two trees and leaned some others against. A tarp for cover and they had a lean-to. Two of them opted to sleep in it Sat night. Temps both nights were just under freezing. They cooked and ate over an open fire.