BrentAllen

Actually, Ed, I do know.

Ed, And you don't know, either. Sounds to me like it happens all the time. I would guess it would be hard for an over the road trucker to be a SM, with their schedules. I do know that lack of sleep has a cumulative effect. You don't "catch up" from lack of sleep with one night of 6 - 8 hours sleep. In the Wilderness First Aid Courses we teach, we are big on scenarios. How about this one. SM stays up until 3:00 with the other adult leaders. Early next morning, Scouts are cooking breakfast. Tenderfoot spills hot bacon grease on himself, bad burns. Leaders need to get him to the hospital fast. Hopefully adrenaline kicks in and keeps the driver sharp. Even so, he isn't going to be as sharp as he would with a good night's sleep. The point is, this is a totally avoidable situation (leaders being fatigued due to lack of sleep). There is no compelling reason for it, and in my judgement, they are putting the boys at risk who are under their supervision.

As has been mentioned, there are two issues here for me. 1. A Scout is Courteous. This SM and his buddies are definitely NOT being courteous. Treat others as you want to be treated, etc. 2. I wouldn't allow my son to ride in the vehicle with any adult who was up to 3:00 AM the night before. That is poor judgement and lack of discipline on the adult's part. He and his buddies need to go through The Risk Zone Training. There is no way these adults are going to be at their best, driving home with just 3 or 4 hours sleep. Find a new Troop. "Don't drive drowsy. Stop for rest and stretch breaks as needed. Fatigue is a major cause of highway accident fatalities." http://www.scouting.org/healthandsafety/gss/gss12.aspx

The very end of the clip shows Osman making the record-breaking 1,000 foot jump. He went back 3 weeks later to retrieve his ropes, and decided to make the jump again. No cameras that time. Unfortunately, the rope snapped and he fell to the canyon floor, which killed him. As packsaddle mentioned, he left behind a daughter. After he made the jump successfully, he said he was going to slow down and give his Guardian Angels some time to rest. I guess 3 weeks wasn't enough time. I couldn't see him growing old, for some reason.

Deciding whether or not to attend WB should be simple - if you love Scouting, you will love WB. The course is not going to make perfect leaders out of all who attend. It will give you the opportunity to improve your leadership skills. I think one of the bigger benefits is it gives everyone attending (participants and staff) the opportunity to really study Scouting. To really dig in and look at different parts of the program. The amount and depth of study depends on the individual. During those two weekends (or week), an individual can take the opportunity to reach out and ask lots of questions of everyone there, to seek out opinions and experiences, or they can keep to themselves and do the minimum to complete the course. That is up to the individual. The course gives you six days to eat, sleep and breathe nothing but Scouting. Again, if you love Scouting, you will love WB. Back when I used to shoot High Power, we would go to the National Matches at Camp Perry, OH. If you went to the first week of the Rifle Matches, you shot in the Presidents' 100 on Monday and the National Trophy Individual on Tuesday. You fired 30 shots on Monday and 50 shots on Tuesday. Wednesday was the Juniors Match and Thursday and Friday were Team matches. A lot of shooters didn't shoot the Team matches, but hung around for the week and helped out. A new shooter would look at the schedule and ask, "Why would I want to drive to northern Ohio and spend a week of my vacation to only shoot 80 shots over two matches?" The answer was, if you love shooting, this will be the best week you ever spend on this activity. You are surrounded by people who love the sport, you get to rub shoulders with the best in the sport, and all you do is eat, sleep and breathe shooting for an entire week. It is intoxicating, and you will go home wanting more. They were right. From my WB experiences, I can say the same thing - it is intoxicating, and I always went home wanting more.

Foolhardy? Nah. This is foolhardy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viy9pWTGNys&feature=related

Nike, I believe that is week 2, not 1. We will be there week 3, June 14 - 20. The water level never really changes, as was mentioned. We were there the same week last year, and had some very cool nights, down into the low 50's and one night into the 40's. The Troops from Florida were commenting about the "cold" weather. :-) That said, if you have any boys taking Wilderness Survival, they do need a good sleeping bag. The climbing tower is nice, but you have to climb cardiac hill to get to it. For some fun spectating, go watch the boys ride the mountain boards after supper. They ride down the hill below the main parking lot, to the left of the road going down to the powerboat dock. They also have a frisbee golf course, so take your discs if you have them.

Beavah, When is the last time you read a MB book? I'd say the ones today are the exact opposite of what you describe. To me, they appear to be much more of an instructional guide than a listing of requirements, and this is what you need to know to earn the badge. The boys also seem to really like the new color editions better than the black & white. As SM, when a Scout wants a blue card, I usually first ask if they have the MB book. As a counselor, I expect them to read the book to familiarize themselves with the subject, and give us a foundation to start from.

The SM isn't the boss of the Troop, but he is the boss of the program. I can't imagine an instance where I would ask adults to leave their phones at home, but maybe there is one. As OGE states, there must be a story here. Change the electronic device in the story and see if that affects your answer. Can the SM tell an adult not to bring a battery-powered portable tv? or radio? or laptop (for either work or watching DVDs)? If I'm SM and any of those are disrupting the program, I would ask the adult to put them away and leave them at home. I'm usually bumming a weather report off one of the adults' Blackberrys, so I'm glad they bring them.

FScouter, I guess we will have to agress to disagree. From the cases I've read about here, the problem usually arises when a boy has been absent for a year or two, and as he closes in on his 18th birthday, he (orhis parents) suddenly wants to get his Eagle. The Troop has been offering a program that is engaging and challenging to the rest of the boys, but this one chose not to participate. HE made the choice, but now he doesn't want to live with the consequences. So, who is having the trouble with values here? The leaders were there volunteering every week for a Troop meeting. They were there supervising trips every month, taking time away from their families. They were there giving up their vacation time to attend Summer Camp. Where was this absent Scout? Then, the Troop leaders get villified for sticking to their values. They want to teach the boys there are no free rides in life, you have to earn your way. But instead, National teaches you can skip out, not be a team player, and find a short-cut. I've had my say. I agree to disagree.

Sorry, FScouter, but I have to disagree. We had 3,000 units trying to deal with the PARENTS who wanted their little Johnny to get the award without the work. From what I've read on this forum, anytime the parents appeal a Troop embracing the values, the Troop loses. I would argue that National has hurt the Troops and adults who try to teach the values. I don't know of anyone who would agree with this definition of "active." It certainly isn't the definition we live with and teach our Scouts. I don't what "value" National is trying to instill with this ridiculous definition. It is just teaching boys that they can skip out on the program but if they pitch a big enough of a fit, they can still get the prize.

My son was tapped out at Camporee and will be attending Ordeal next weekend (I was tapped out, as well). He's asked a few questions, but doesn't appear to be too nervouse - yet. He is a last-minute type, and may be the same with his apprehensions, so it may all hit on Thursday. We have 3 other boys attending Ordeal, all his closest friends, so that probably helps as well. Since I haven't been through Ordeal, there isn't much I can tell him, except this is part of the BSA and all falls under the Oath and Law. If you can't put a little blind trust in a program operating under those principals, then we are all wasting our time. I'm personally really looking forward to Ordeal. Hopefully we will get the same weather as this weekend.

This has probably been mentioned before, but you could always check into starting a Venturing Crew. Get your minimum numbers and get it started. Run it the way you want to run it, and use it as an example to let the adults see the boys can handle it. I think the only way you are going to change these adults is for them to see it happen and see the results. Your DE will love you (starting a new unit he/she gets to count). The VC doesn't have to compete or conflict with the Troop - you can schedule around the Troop calendar. But if the Troop doesn't change their attitude, they could end up losing many boys to the VC.

It sure looks like regsitered = active to me. What does the Scout have to do in that definition? Nothing. I agree with John and Beavah - be very careful what you ask for, because it will be constructed to address the lowest common denominator.

Thanks, le Voyageur, will do. Eyeballing the rope across a crude ruler, I'm reading 5 - 6 mm in diameter, so not nearly as strong as yours. I really like the tensioning device - it is a pretty simple design, once you figure it out. I have a friend who is a machinest and I may see if he can make a couple of these for line similar to the size you have. I'm fairly new to hammock camping, with 6 nights logged on 3 trips. I wasn't sure if I would like it, as I'm a side sleeper and roll around a lot. I've found I can get on my side enough to sleep well, and I feel great when I get up in the morning! That's the biggest advantage for me - I don't feel like I've slept on the ground all night. :-) We are planning on taking them to Summer Camp this year - they are that comfortable. Thanks for sharing.

Trevorum writes: "I think that idea was already tried once. It didn't work." You know what we say here in the South - If, at first you don't secede, try, try again!

We have campfires on Saturday nights, unless some other program takes precedent (camporee). Many times the patrol skits are planned at the last minute, but that's fine. I often make a dutch oven dessert for the campfire. We usually have skits and sometimes a story. Thorns and Roses usually wraps up the night. Our Troop has 25 boys presently.

I ended up getting the Byer Amazonas MicroRope at REI. http://www.rei.com/product/721723 They weigh 5 oz and are very quick and easy to set up, and more importantly, to adjust.

Me and two other adults are now using hammocks. One uses a Hennesy, I don't know the brand of the other, and I use the Mosquito Hammock - http://www.mosquitohammock.com/ I use the Expedition Hammock, which has a "sleeve" in the bottom for a sleeping pad (I use a thermarest inflatable). I'm also a side sleeper, and I find the hammock very comfortable. We had a nice night out this past weekend camping, and I slept in the hammock under the stars. I haven't seen that many shooting stars in a long time!

I think I understand what Beavah is talking about, and in my book, there is a huge difference between a Boy Scout Troop and a Camping Club. I've seen plenty of Camping Clubs dressed up as if they were Boy Scouts. You can spot them by their lack of courtesy (staying up and being very loud past 11:00 PM) and their lack of camping skills (using lighter fluid to start fires, no fire buckets, etc.). They also usually have 100% free time for the boys, and never any actual program to the trip. The psuedo-Scouters will witness all kinds of behaviour that doesn't conform with the Oath and Law, and never say or do anything about it (bullying, foul language, etc.) A Boy Scout Troop will have a fun, exciting and challenging program for the Scouts, along with free time. The Scouts will learn something new or improve on a skill as part of the trip. When they get home, they will be able to tell their parents what they did, other than just say "we went camping." Hopefully each Scout will have been challenged at some point to push himself and gain confidence in his success, whether it be learning how to cook something new or squeeze through a difficult part of a cave. There should be plenty of opportunities for the adult leaders to heap praise on the boys for their accomplishments. Finally, we do Thorns and Roses at just about every camping trip. The adults find this is a good time to talk about values in disguise. Roses might focus on the positive values that were exhibited during the day, while the thorns are areas we need to work on. The boys don't hear it that way, they just hear an adult taking his turn. This has been a very productive part of the trips for our Troop, and more so from what the boys say than the adults.

I'll be the first to admit I'm no expert on world energy policy and oil, and I honestly don't know if the high cost of gasoline this past summer was due to OPEC or to the futures traders. I suspect the latter. Or maybe it was the evil oil companies. I don't think it was purely the market driving the cost, but more the market manipulators. This conservative still believes in the market economy, and I don't think we will see a true alternative energy until one is created that competes with oil on its own (no government subsidies). What exactly do we hope to see with an alternative fuel/energy source? More control of supply? Lower cost? Financially hurting OPEC? Save the planet from the bogus global warming? And at what cost are we willing to make the switch? As with everything else, the real cost is going to be much higher than anticipated.

I'm with Beavah on this one - we only know half the story. I'd be real interested in hearing the SM's side, what he would have to say. The SMs I know put in so many hours that if they kept count, they'd end up in the funny farm. They are willing to do whatever they can for every one of their Scouts to succeed. If any started out on an ego trip, they fell off that horse in the first couple of months, when they saw how much work it took. So, with the limited information I've seen, I'm willing to give my fellow SM the same benefit of doubt that everyone is giving the Scout. There may be some act or issue from the past that this SM just can't get past - it has crossed his threshold where he says this Scout and his actions don't merit Eagle. I would hope if that is the case, it is something serious. Are there issue or actions that would keep me from awarding a Scout Eagle? Yes, I'm sure there are. Drugs, criminal activity, for a few. I bet all SMs have that threshold; we just don't know where it is for this SM and what triggered it.

Mine is a little more modern... :-) Fold-up plastic plate and bowl, lexan coffee cup, lexan utensils. Fold-up MSR spatula and spoon. Jet-boil pot and stove. For our NT trip, the crew is all taking the same type plastic REI bowl, with a soup spoon attached via cord, and the same type cup with a tea spoon similarly attached. (they all stack together) We will use different color cord to identify, as well as mark them with a Sharpie. Not that it matters, they will all be the same...

I used to have a Suburban. When the a/c went out AGAIN, I got rid of it and picked up a Toyota Sequoia - best move I ever made. I can get more gear in my Toyota than I ever could in the Suburban. With the spare tire under the carriage instead of in the cargo area, I have lots more room. Better gas mileage, better ride, better warranty, just an all-around better vehicle. I know it doesn't look as big as the Suburban, but when it comes to loading it up, it will hold more (and it was much less than the Suburban). Beavah, I don't think it was fuel economy standards that sunk GM. From what I've heard, the hybrids and sub-compacts are the ones sitting on the lots, not moving out the doors. I won't buy GM because of quality, not gas mileage.

So let's expand this on a couple of fronts. Let's say California takes federal money in the same manner GM did. Does Obama now have the right to tell Arnold to step down? What about a city, with a Republican mayor? Someone please show me one thing the government does effectively and well. Everything they touch ends up costing 5 times over what they predicted. The government had oversight on fannie and freddie, and we see where they ended up. Now we are letting them take over the auto industry? And Geithner says he may replace more CEO's?? Here's my nightmare: Obama tells GM and the other auto makers they have to build hybrids and modern-day versions of the Pinto - super fuel efficient tin cans that nobody wants. Then, when nobody buys them because of their high cost and poor value coupled with low gas prices, Obama will add on enough fuel tax to run gas up to $4/gal. Say goodbye to freedom, and hello to inflation, lower standard of living, taxes through the roof, and last but not least - Big Brother. And for the record, I have been against these bailouts from day one. McCain should have gone against them during the campaign.