BrentAllen

Our patrols can use two tables, depending on where we are camping (for car camping): The plastic top fold-in-half Lifetime Table, sold at Costco for $50 http://www.lifetime.com/library/pdf/6-Foot_FIH_Table.pdf The Coleman Pack-Away Kitchen at the local Coleman Outlet for $72 http://www.coleman.com/coleman/colemancom/detail.asp?product_id=2183-840&categoryid=10020

skeptic, You only need to have the international letters of introduction issued by the BSA if you aren't traveling with National Tour Permits. Scouts aren't allowed to wear their uniforms outside the US unless they have the letters of introduction OR are members of a group traveling with Tour Permits.

I think there are a couple of ways to look at who the "leader" is on an outing. Is it the SM, if he is on the trip? Is it the person listed on the Tour Permit as the leader? For water events, is it the person who provides the qualified supervision in the safety sandwich? If those happen to all be different persons on a trip, I would want the input of all in making the decision. For our Troop, I'm usually the one filling those roles. I'm in a good position where all the leaders and adults that camp with us get along great, and trust each other. I can't imagine ever getting taken to task by another parent for making a no-go call due to safety concerns (as was mentioned in the other thread). If that ever did happen, it would be the only time. When we started this Troop, I made it very clear that I wanted it to be like one big family. I know we are still a young, small Troop of 25, but so far, this effort has paid big dividends.

A very handy little book, though it covers a lot more than just duct tape: Don't Forget The Duct Tape by Kristin Hostetter http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Forget-Duct-Tape-Maintaining/dp/0898869552/ref=pd_sim_b_2 Product Description Whether you need to remedy a leak in your tent, repair flapping boot soles, nurse a cranky stove back to life, unclog a water filter, or revive gunked-up Velcro, you'll find the solution here. And it can all be done with an inexpensive 12-item repair kit that, once assembled, won't weigh more than a pound or two--worth its weight in gorp! As you'd guess, this pack-it-with-you pocket guide includes many ingenious uses for that most versatile of tools: duct tape! Here's just a few of many tips: Tip: Make a sturdy zipper pull by threading a thin strip of duct tape through the slider, then wrapping the tails with more duct tape. Tip: For a more stable stove, cut a square of old closed-cell foam pad sized to fit the base of your backpacking stove. Wrap the foam generously with duct tape for insulation and you have a stable cooking platform that works great in the snow. Tip: When re-gluing a boot or shoe sole, a few turns of duct tape can keep the toe area secure while the glue dries.

Amen, Beavah. My time is very valuable to me. I'm willing to donate plenty to Scouting, but I can only take so much irritation. This is also a safety issue, in my opinion. And I didn't even get into the "sexting" issues. Are we going to check every image on every cell phone before going on trips? Luckily, I don't have anyone fighting me on this issue in our Troop.

mmhardy, Perhaps a review of the SM Handbook is in order. The SM attends the PLC and has veto power. Program is the SM's responsibility. The boys lead the Troop, under the supervision of the SM.

These electronic devises aren't just cell phones today. You have iphones and blackberry's that have internet access. I've already run into problems with other parents who give unlimited internet access to their kids because they trust them. After a birthday sleep-over, we learned what kind of web sites those kids were visiting. Needless to say, many of us never let our sons spend the night there again. So, now we are going to let kids have unlimited internet access in their tents at night while on campouts. Sorry, not in my Troop. As SM, I'm not going to have to deal with the situation where a 15 year-old decides to show an 11 year-old some inappropriate web sites. I know how I would feel as the parent of that 11 year-old, so Scouts can either leave the electronics at home, or stay home. And if that sounds too preposterous to you, I've had Scouters tell me they had Scouts calling 900 numbers on their cell phones while on camping trips. I'm just not going to deal with the issue. We go camping to get out in nature and enjoy God's creation.

My son is attending NYLT next week, and they have the "no electronics" policy. I have no problem with it, as that is our Troop policy as well. A local Troop was at Summer Camp two years ago, and had a boy who was very homesick. One of the leaders took the boy on a horseback riding trip on Wednesday, and the Scout had a great time. He had gotten over his homesickness, and was ready to finish out the week. When they got back to camp, the boy's mother was there, waiting on them. It turns out the boy had earlier found a Scout with a cell phone and called home. He was crying and his mom was crying, and she said she would come pick him up. Even though he had gotten over his homesickness, as soon as he saw mom, he was going home. He packed his stuff, left with mom, and the Troop never saw him again. The Troop has a "no cell phone" policy, but one Scout thought he knew better. So much for a Scout is helpful. Sometimes, the SM's know of what they speak.

I hate to break up the Merlyn show, but to get back to hot foot eagle: It is perfectly natural for persons of faith to have their doubts from time to time. This is part of building your faith. Faith is like a muscle - it must be exercised over time in order to grow. As events happen in our lives, often tragic, we might wonder, where is God? Hopefully we have time to allow our faith to grow before we need it for a major issue or loss. I imagine there were millions of believers who were asking "where is God?" on 9/11/01. What does that say about us? Only that we are human. My guess is that Mother Teresa was often asking "where is God?" based on the suffering she was seeing on a daily basis.

Your CM needs to understand a things: 1. The cross-over ceremony is conducted by the Pack; it is a Pack event. 2. A Webelos is a member of the Pack until he crosses over into a Troop. 3. The Pack should treat its members with respect, including Webelos who are crossing over into another Troop. 4. Webelos should be encouraged to visit the local Troops, to find the one that best meets their needs. If a Webelos is going to join another Troop, he should notify his WDL, who should notify the CM. The CM should invite the SM from the other Troop to attend so he can accept the Webelos into his Troop. Traditionally, Blue & Gold Banquets were held in February, and cross-over ceremonies were a part of the banquet. Due to the size of Packs, the lengths of programs, and the desire to hold cross-over ceremonies at different venues (outdoor events with OA ceremonial teams), these ceremonies are held some time after B & G. We hold them as soon as possible after B & G so the boys can get active in their Troops. Our District holds our Camporee at the end of March, and we want the new Scouts to attend. Also, our main camp opens registration for MB classes at Summer Camp on the 1st of April, and the classes fill up quickly. If we don't have the boys in Troops, it is very difficult to plan for them. Hope this helps.

Merlyn, Why do you really care what the BSA thinks about you or other atheists? There are groups that feel their race/kind is superior to others. I don't believe them, and I pay them no mind. They can think what they want and it isn't going to bother me. Why does the beliefs of the BSA, a group you despise, bother you so much?

Scouter & mom, We only have 3 REI stores in Atlanta, and one of them is only 10 minutes away, so yes, I have it rough (on the wallet). :-) Our council offers some great programs - canoeing MB weekend at Allatoona Aquatics Base is great for the boys, as well as the leaders. They have plenty of camp sites, so you can make a camping weekend out of it. Flint River has something similar, and they are probably alot closer to you (assuming you are in the southern part of the state). The Savannah council offers a High Adventure sea kayaking trip down the coast, with plenty of instruction. I think they also offer weekend programs for canoeing as well, but could be wrong. There are options out there that aren't too expensive, but may require some driving.

One other thought... Doesn't the BSA have an organization who's mission is to promote camping, along with service? Maybe they (we) are just being under-utilized.

I'm not sure what the views of a history revisionist has to do with the original post. He tries to denigrate Christians "with few exceptions" but then hails the true "few exceptions" - Oskar Schindler, James Reeb, Princess Diana. I wonder why he left Mother Teresa off the list - maybe because she was devoutly Christian and pro-life? Sorry, but I know Christian bashing when I see it...(This message has been edited by BrentAllen)

To put all of this into reality, a new SM would probably find himself in one of two situations. 1. He takes over in an existing Troop, and 2. He starts a new Troop. In situation 1 he hopefully has had time to go on outings with the Troop and learn from the existing, experienced leaders. Shouldn't be a problem for most. In situation 2 he will likely be starting a Troop with fairly young Scouts. If that is the case, he and the boys are going to start off slow. A Day Hike with backpacking gear to get ready for a backpacking overnighter. Baby steps for himself and the Troop, if you will. They are all moving up the learning curve, and the SM just has to be a few steps ahead of them. They won't even be eligible for High Adventure for a few years, so their idea of HA is much different than that of a 14 y/o. Around here the other Troops are very willing to help out. When we first started, we had several offer to let our Troop attend trips with them. In a small town where Troop are competing, this might be a problem, but if the SM can network within the district, or even the council, he should be able to find a brother Troop to help them out. Our greatest resource for this type of training is us - other units in the BSA. Maybe we just need to find a way to formalize a program with other units/leaders as trainers.

A dedicated SM and dads can get up to speed, if they really want to. The adults can go on trips with other nearby Troops that have experienced leaders and learn the skills. Or they can invite an experienced leader to come teach the skill at Troop meetings and then go on the trip with the Troop. We have a group of experienced cavers in our council who lead Troops on caving trips in Georgia, Alabama and TN. They don't charge anything, and they have trips planned nearly every weekend. They do it because they love caving. If we want to go rock climbing, we hire trained personnel to lead the skills part of the trip. There are plenty of folks around who are very reasonable. There are plenty of local rafting companies that offer whitewater trips on the local rivers, again, very reasonable. I don't think a SM has to be able to guide on the river for the Troop to participate in the event. He just needs to make sure qualified personnel are performing the job. There is also tons of info on the web, along with very good videos. It's all there for those willing to look. Maybe I'm missing the point. Maybe a list of skills a SM should have would help. Backpacking, canoeing - what else?

I believe they try to update each MB booklet every 5 years (on a rotating basis) so it would make sense to update a 5 year old Fieldbook. My son had a joke published in Boy's Life and received a free copy of the Fieldbook. And, of course, he got a patch. :-)

Disagree if you like. What you didn't mention is Boy's Life is in the libraries, both school and local here. And for your local neighborhood kid looking at Scouting, he isn't going to visit any of those web sites. He is going to see the local unit. He will see the other elementary kids wearing their uniforms to school. The parents will get an invitation to a School Night for Scouting event and talk to the other parents about the unit. That is where they are going to get 90% of their information. Billboards? Not around here. DEs and FDs doing any advertising? Not around here. We don't expect them to. We do our own marketing in the school for the Pack (135 boys). Run a good program and word of mouth is just about all the marketing you need. When you start getting emails from Kindergarten parents asking how their sons can join, you know you are doing something right. Gern, the BSA offers training for adding adventure to your program. It's called Powderhorn. Should we duplicate that program in WB? Why?

Gern, Are you subbing for Kudu to supply the required WB bashing? When has anyone ever seen WB or NYLT (what exactly is that name? you know, the "L" word?) used as marketing for new members? Most Scouts and Scouters don't hear about these until they have been in the program a few years. If you want to see how Scouting is marketed nationally to boys, check out Boy's Life. Last time I checked it was pretty heavily weighted on the adventure part of the program. Other than national, Scouting is advertised locally by the units. They control the content and message.

Al Townley has a new book out, Spirit of Adventure: Eagle Scouts and the Making of America's Future. This may answer some of those questions in the other thread. From Amazon.com Over the past century, Scouts have helped to guide the course of American history. But what does Scouting and the Eagle badge mean to the Scouts of today? How will they shape the future of Scouting and America itself? In Spirit of Adventure, Scouting expert and Eagle Scout Alvin Townley finds the answer. Townley traveled across the country and to the far corners of the globe to meet these young Eagle Scouts. He found them everywhere, continuing the life of adventure and service that they had begun in Scouting. He discovered them in Afghanistan providing medical care to villagers, in Australia saving coral reefs, at the Super Bowl and Olympic venues striving for victory, on desert cliffs and at inner-city schools teaching new lessons, in Africa bringing hope to children, and on the windswept deck of the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz preparing for takeoff. Whether doctors, activists, servicemen, entrepreneurs, or teachers, these young men are changing the world through bold actions that capture the essence of the Scouting tradition. In Spirit of Adventure, Townley answers important questions about the future of Scouting and America, while revealing stories of service, courage, and pure excitement that introduce our nation to an inspiring new generation of leaders. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/031237898X?ie=UTF8&tag=spiritofadventureat-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=031237898X

BadenP, Your SOP really gets old, you know. You can't argue the facts, so you just trash the poster. Very Scout-like. Have a nice day.

BadenP writes: "As far as self protection is concerned, to learn how to use a gun for target shooting is one thing, but most law enforcement professionals will tell you that home gun owners wind up having that gun used on them by a criminal or a member of their own family than the owner ever uses it to "protect" themselves." More left wing bunk. Do some research on unbiased sites, and you will find guns are used many more times to save lives than having them used on the owner. BadenP writes: "Hunting was a necessity in humanity's earlier history in order to survive, but today it is little more than an archaic and bloody trophy sport that serves NO useful purpose." Even more left wing bunk! Venison is much more healthy for you than beef. Elk tastes better than beef. The taxes from rifles, ammo and hunting supplies are used to purchase property to remain natural habitat for animals. Human sprawl (and automobiles) kill more animals than hunters.

A couple of thoughts... There is a disconnect with the perception of Scouting, somewhere between "Boy Scouts is dorky" and all the respect Eagle Scouts get. Regardless, Eagle Scouts do get the respect they deserve, and it is the current program that produces them. Will any of the changes in program affect that? It didn't take me long to figure out I am much more interested in quality than quantity in our Troop. I want boys who want to be Scouts. I don't have the time or energy to try to convince a boy he wants to be a Scout, and I really don't want to deal with part-time Scouts who only show up occasionally (differentiate that from active boys who have legitimate conflicts). Granted, operating one unit is much different from operating a national program, but at the end of the day, can you really make a boy want to be a Scout if it isn't in his heart (or culture)? In starting a new Pack or Troop, the one key person you need is the Cubmaster or Scoutmaster, who is usually the parent of a boy in the unit. If you don't have that key person, no matter how much effort a DE or a district puts into a new unit, it will usually fail. So until we find parents in those communities into which the BSA is trying to expand who love Scouting and are willing to be that key person, we aren't going to make much progress. I say keep the program the way it is. Focus on quality, not quantity. It has been my experience that when a quality program is offered, the membership will grow. Don't try to be all things to all people. Do what you do best, and stick to it.

So, packsaddle, let me get this straight. The boy in question had no problem running out and buying an incorrect Venturing shirt, but has a problem with buying a correct Boy Scout shirt? What exactly are you going to complain about? My hat is off the DAC for doing his job. You should thank him, as well.

You are going to need a boot with drains to let the water out. You can probably modify those boots, but they are pretty expensive boots to trash. We are using these boots. Much more affordable. They have the drains on the inside of the arch. http://armynavysuperstores.com/truspecboots.htm