BrentAllen

Our council already does this at the camp we attend. At the end of the week, we get a print-out (one page per Scout) with merit badges attended and the requirements NOT completed. I assume the staff are inputting the data during the week as the Scouts complete the requirements. The one nice thing about the system is you can deal with mistakes by email. Last year, we had a couple of mistakes on some forms, and the Program Director was able to verify the information, correct the forms, and email them to me in a couple of hours. I'm happy with the system. This is a pretty good size camp - they run somewhere around 800 - 1,000 boys per week, for 7 weeks, thru there. Even though the camp is a decent haul off the beaten path, they appear to have pretty good IT capability. They even have some terminals in the SM Lounge where adults can check email.

E. And even with today's new music, they are still playing using the same notes. Treble clef or base clef. There are new instruments, we use new backpacks and tents. New groups come along. We have new packs and troops come along. At the heart of it, music is still music - well, except for that industrial noise :-) BTW, I saw Bob Higgins at Scout CPR Saturday. He says hello. I believe he also said they were going back to the coast for the sea kayaking this summer. Brent

SMT, By the program outlined in the Scoutmaster Handbook, the SPL and ASPL are not part of a regular patrol. I don't think it gives clear direction on where they tent on campouts, however.

I'll tell you why I'm not very optimistic right now. We have an administration that likes to exploit any crisis. "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste," said Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. "This crisis provides the opportunity for us to do things that you could not do before." "Things you could not do before." How nice. Scare people into doing things they wouldn't normally do or be in favor of. So much for "hope." This "governing by crisis" appears to be a theme in the Obama administration. Hillary was saying the same thing in Europe: "Clinton told young Europeans at the European Parliament that global economic turmoil provided a fresh opening. "Never waste a good crisis ... Don't waste it when it can have a very positive impact on climate change and energy security," she said." So, if you can't get your agenda through congress or accepted by the America people on its own merits, just us a huge crisis to scare them into it. So, maybe you don't want to solve the crisis too fast. And if it looks like some of your agenda might fail, let the crisis get even worse. This sounds like something that has happened before - maybe somewhere in Europe in the 1930's.

Beavah, Voluntarily giving up your wealth and giving it to the poor on your own free will is very different from having the government take it from you and redistribute it. I sure wouldn't call the former socialism. Big difference. When I give to charity, I can decide where it goes. I don't have to give it to programs that are against my beliefs. When the government takes it, I have no say in where it goes.

Merlyn, I'm thinking the BSA does treat others as we wish to be treated. If one of the Gay & Lesbian Associations tell me I can't join because either I'm not a homosexual or because I'm a member of the BSA, it won't bother me a bit. That is their right under free association. They can even claim that I can't be the best kind of citizen unless I'm a member of their group, or believe in gay marriage, or whatever, and it won't bother me a bit. They can think what they want - it doesn't affect me.

Barry, Good point. I'm thinking more just about tent location and image than I am what he's doing with his free time. This may not end up working out logistically, but we want to give it a try. If a Patrol has an odd number of a Scouts on a trip, he may just end up tenting with them. I'm hoping the SPL will have at least some meals with the adults as that is a great time to have a conversation about what's going on with the Troop, and what's coming up. That may end up being supper, and he may want to have the other meals with the Patrols so he can do the same thing with them - keep his finger on the pulse.

Kudu, There are a couple of reasons why we want an SPL. 1. Right now, I'm acting as the SPL, which means I'm having more interaction with the PLs than I want. They will still defer to me when they can. The SPL would provide that buffer, but still allow me to mentor and coach. 2. We envision the SPL camping and eating with the adults, which we hope will provide even more evidence that we are willing to treat the youth leaders as peers in running the Troop, if they will step up to the challenge. 3. I know you don't care for WB, but I do, and one of the main lessons we teach/demonstrate is the duties of the SPL, and the relationship between the SPL and SM. The SM provides the vision, and the SPL, in coordination with the PLs, make it happen. The boys don't see many of the meetings between the SPL and SM, but what they do see is a Scout leading the Troop. The SPL moves the adults one additional level away from the boys, allowing the adults to stay even more in the background. I think this is very important. As an example, instead of the SM calling in the PLs to give out information, it is the SPL who calls them in and gives out the info he received from the SM beforehand. What do the boys in the Troop see? A Scout leading the PLs instead of the SM. 4. At some camps and events (Summer Camp, Camporee) SPL meetings are held where information is provided to one representative per unit, who then carries the information back the the PLs and Troop. This may not seem like a big deal, but when our Summer Camp program has concurrent SM and SPL meetings right after breakfast, and we are cooking in camp, having an SPL to attend will work better than pulling a PL from his Patrol. I, too, don't see a need for an ASPL. His only duty would be to fill for the SPL if he were absent. Our leaders aren't absent very often, so I agree, this would be a waste. Thanks for your input. I do value it, though I may not agree with it all the time.

Merlyn, Clinton's speech represented the position of the intelligence community at that time. Nothing happened between then and the time that Bush decided to invade that would have changed the position of the intelligence community. Inspectors were not allowed to do their job. As Clinton stated, the fear was Saddam could hide his programs from the international community. Take a look at those three key paragraphs again: "Timing was important, said the president, because without a strong inspection system in place, Iraq could rebuild its chemical, biological and nuclear programs in a matter of months, not years. "If Saddam can cripple the weapons inspections system and get away with it, he would conclude the international community, led by the United States, has simply lost its will," said Clinton. "He would surmise that he has free rein to rebuild his arsenal of destruction." Clinton also called Hussein a threat to his people and to the security of the world." Again, nothing material changed to lead Bush or anyone else to change their opinion from what Clinton stated above. As you saw, Clinton was even in favor of changing regimes, and was working with opposition forces.

All, Thanks for the responses. I was hoping some of the more experienced Scouters would jump in, and you didn't disappoint me. My guess is there are probably a couple of good ways to handle this situation, and many bad ways. My goal is to avoid those bad ways. jet asked some very good questions, so to answer them - these boys are all coming from the same Pack, from two different dens. Most, if not all, go to the same school, and have done so for years, so they all know each other pretty well. My goal for the patrols is for them to develop team work, learn from the experienced Scouts, and have the PL learn how to lead. I also discussed the topic with one of my very experienced SM friends (82 years old, 34 + years as SM). He is also on our committee, mainly helping with BORs, so he knows the boys and their personalities. He has more information to work with than I could type in a post for you to read. Anyway, his suggestion was to go ahead and elect a SPL, even though we didn't absolutely need one at this time. It would help even up the numbers, and we might as well start working that part of the puzzle into the program. Most of us are pretty sure we know who will be the first SPL. Next, he said go ahead and form the third patrol with the existing Scouts we have. He said he would approach it like this, calling the Scouts together. This would be his dialogue: "Scouts, it is a good thing we have these Webelos joining us, and the Troop is growing. But we have a problem, we need a third patrol. You boys have all been together with your patrols for some time now, and the last thing we want to do is make any of you leave your friends. This is the hardest job in all of Scouting - how to get a new patrol started. We don't want to just make it one of brand new Scouts, they need some leadership. So I'm going to ask - would anyone be willing to step up and help start this new patrol?" Beavah, We are still getting pretty good turn-out, so I would be hesitant to stick with 2. Some of the older boys have figured out that with a new third patrol, a new identity will be needed, ie Patrol name, and they may want to be a part of that. Barry, Since we cook by patrol at summer camp, I'm pretty interested in getting the three patrols up and running by mid-May, at the latest. They are going to need that much time to prepare for the task of preparing, planning and buying meals for the week. If we had older boys who were TGs, I think NSPs would more likely be considered. With only 6 7th graders, I feel we really need them in the patrols and not serving as TGs. The really good news is 4 of the 7th graders are going to NYLT the first week of summer. Thanks for your insight. I'll try to post a few updates as we move through the process.

Clinton didn't think there was enough evidence to invade? How about attack? How about build a strong enough case to get the allies to join us? 12/16/98 "Earlier today I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces," Clinton said. "Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors," said Clinton. Clinton also stated that, while other countries also had weapons of mass destruction, Hussein is in a different category because he has used such weapons against his own people and against his neighbors. 'Without delay, diplomacy or warning' The Iraqi leader was given a final warning six weeks ago, Clinton said, when Baghdad promised to cooperate with U.N. inspectors at the last minute just as U.S. warplanes were headed its way. "Along with Prime Minister (Tony) Blair of Great Britain, I made it equally clear that if Saddam failed to cooperate fully we would be prepared to act without delay, diplomacy or warning," Clinton said. The president said the report handed in Tuesday by Richard Butler, head of the United Nations Special Commission in charge of finding and destroying Iraqi weapons, was stark and sobering. Iraq failed to cooperate with the inspectors and placed new restrictions on them, Clinton said. He said Iraqi officials also destroyed records and moved everything, even the furniture, out of suspected sites before inspectors were allowed in. "Instead of inspectors disarming Saddam, Saddam has disarmed the inspectors," Clinton said. "In halting our airstrikes in November, I gave Saddam a chance -- not a license. If we turn our backs on his defiance, the credibility of U.S. power as a check against Saddam will be destroyed," the president explained. Strikes necessary to stunt weapons programs Clinton said he made the decision to strike Wednesday with the unanimous agreement of his security advisors. Timing was important, said the president, because without a strong inspection system in place, Iraq could rebuild its chemical, biological and nuclear programs in a matter of months, not years. "If Saddam can cripple the weapons inspections system and get away with it, he would conclude the international community, led by the United States, has simply lost its will," said Clinton. "He would surmise that he has free rein to rebuild his arsenal of destruction." Clinton also called Hussein a threat to his people and to the security of the world. "The best way to end that threat once and for all is with a new Iraqi government -- a government ready to live in peace with its neighbors, a government that respects the rights of its people," Clinton said. Such a change in Baghdad would take time and effort, Clinton said, adding that his administration would work with Iraqi opposition forces.

Eagle, I don't think this is a direct answer to your question, but it might shed some light on the prospect of doing it through PayPal. From the SOAR web instructions for setting up PayPal for online payments: PayPal Account Setup When setting up a PayPal account: Select Business account not Personal or Premier Select Website Payments Standard not Website Payments Pro Select Sole Proprietorship for Business Type not Non Profit Organization Select Sports and Outdoors for Category not Non-Profit Select Camping and Outdoors for Subcategory PayPal has a specific account type for non profit organizations that caters to online collection of donations at a reduced transaction fee. To qualify for this account type the majority of your online payments need to be of the donation type and you need to provide PayPal with a lot of paperwork to prove non profit status. Packs and Troops will not qualify for this so you want to avoid it. To avoid PayPals non-profit account type you need to select something other than Non Profit during the account signup process. If you select Non Profit, PayPal will automatically switch your account type which you do not want. If you have already setup a PayPal account for your unit and selected a Business Type of Non Profit you may want to call PayPal Customer Service and have your account type changed to avoid any future issues.

BadenP, Actually, my Scouter career is fairly young, in my 6th year, and just starting my 3rd year in Boy Scouts. But I'm flattered you think I'm a seasoned Scouter. Spewing hatred? That doesn't sound like much fun to me. No, in our Troop, I ask the boys to fill out a political profile when they join, so I can identify the liberals. Being a Life Member of the Rush Fan Club, I get all his shows on podcasts. On campouts, I take a small set of speakers and my Ipod, and put them outside the tent of the liberal Scouts, right next to their heads. Right after they drift off to sleep, I turn it on and play Rush's shows all night long. A little political osmosis training, if you will. You may laugh, but I've converted three of them in less than a year! I've got one boy who uses ear plugs, so I've got to come up with a new plan for him. Any ideas? On a serious note, how can I ask God to bless you today? Feel free to PM me, if you like.

pack, Maybe CCSU should include: "At a minimum, a thimble-full of common sense." That would have disqualified at least one professor.

Speaking of guns on campus, read this piece: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,504524,00.html Excerpt: "A professor in Connecticut reported one of her students to the police after he gave a class presentation on why students and teachers should be allowed to carry concealed weapons on campus. Now, free speech activists say the professors actions are what really need to be investigated. Last October, John Wahlberg and two classmates at Central Connecticut State University gave an oral presentation for a communications class taught by Professor Paula Anderson. The assignment was to discuss a relevant issue in the media, and the students presented their view that the death toll in the April 2007 Virginia Tech shooting massacre would have been lower if professors and students had been carrying guns. That night, police called Wahlberg, a 23-year-old senior, and asked him to come to the station. When he arrived, they they read off a list of firearms that were registered in his name and asked where he kept them. Guns are strictly prohibited on the CCSU campus and residence halls, but Wahlberg says he lives 20 miles off-campus and keeps his gun collection locked up in a safe. No further action was taken by police or administrators." Gotta love our instructors of higher learning! This is why we fight gun registration. When the gov't can show up with a list and say hand me these weapons, the 2nd Amendment doesn't mean much. Sorry, Hal - no way I agree with the legislation proposed in the past the close the "gun show loophole." It was written so loosely that if I had a couple of friends over and sold a firearm to one of them, I would have been violating the law.

The SM HB and other materials don't offer a lot of advice for when a Troop grows and has to expand the number of patrols. For this scenario, I do not want to include the possibility of a New Scout Patrol - the Webelos crossing into the Troop will visit with the different Patrols for a month, and then decide which one they want to join, probably turning in a slip with 1st and 2nd preference. At that point, the SM and PLC will work together to get the patrols evened out number-wise. Scenario: Current Troop has 11 Scouts, with 6 7th graders and 5 6th graders. There will be 14 Webelos crossing into the Troop. You are the SM and you need 3 Patrols of 8 and an SPL. Currently, you have 2 Patrols and no SPL: Patrol A has 3 7th graders and 2 6th graders. Patrol B has 3 7th graders and 3 6th graders. As SM, how would you handle the process to end up with 3 Patrols? I'm not so much interested in the Webelos part of the process as I am with dealing with the existing Patrols and Scouts. Since you aren't creating a NSP, obviously some of the structure of the 2 existing Patrols is going to have to change. These 2 Patrols have been together for the last year. The Troop philosophy is to keep Patrols intact, and we never form ad hoc Patrols for campouts. How would you handle this situation?

CubPack28, Is your Pack using PayPal to receive payments? If so, did you have to use the Business type of PayPal account (where you have to pay a % to PayPal) or are you able to use a Personal Account? This is something we are very interested in doing.

Mike F, After not getting any replies, I decided to do a search for "mytroop.us" and came up with good number of Troops using the company. You might try that and see if there are any near you. The members in our Troop are very pleased with it.

I stumbled on this company when I saw one of our OA chapters was using them for their web site. We did a little exploring and were just blown away with this company's product. In less than 45 minutes, we had our new Troop web site up and running (http://dunwoody494.mytroop.us/) For $99/year, we get a fully functional web site, with super easy sync with Troopmaster. To see what I mean, go to the company's web site and go to the Demo site. http://www.mytroop.us/ When you log into the Demo page, hit Troop Roster. You will see the Troop broken down into Leaders, Patrols, Scouts, etc. The web site sets all this up automatically when you import the data from Troopmaster. You don't have to type anything in! Now, click on Scouts. You will see all the Scouts in the Troop. Click on their name for all contact info - again, all this is uploaded automatically from TM - no typing. Now, for the really cool part! Click on the rank next to the Scout's name. It shows ranks completed with the dates, MBs completed with dates, achievements completed for the next rank with dates, and finally the requirements needed to be completed for the next rank. Again, all this is uploaded automatically from TM. Scouts and parents can see what they need to do for the next rank any time they log on. If you click on Patrols, you will see all this information for each Scout there, as well. Now, any time I make changes to TM, I just export from TM (they have SOAR on the drop-down Export menu in TM) and then Import to the web site. It literally takes me less than 10 seconds to do this. Troopmaster is our master file, and MYTroop is the web interface for the Troop. Add to this full email capability with easy to set up groups (Patrols and Leaders set up automatically, again directly from TM). Click on the Send Email tab in the User box, top left. Others are super easy to set up. We also have EBlast, which automatically sends out a weekly email with all the announcements and upcoming events on the Home page. The page is also password protected, and it automatically sends out user names and passwords to all members when you set it up. Again, no typing on my part. Other features include the Photo Album, Calendar and even Online Payments using PayPal, if you want to set it up. We can also set up our own custome pages for things like Eagle Scouts, Merit Badge info, etc. These people really know Scouting, and have set up a system that is stupid easy to use. And all for $99/year! If you use Troopmaster, this is the site for you! They even provide the url, or you can use one you already have. We used Yahoo Groups in the past, but not any more. This blows Yahoo away! (No, I'm not getting paid to promote the company. Just a very satisfied customer.) Check them out.

An article appeared in Scouter magazine back in May, 2004 on new Scout Patrols. Part of the article covered "Red Folders" that were handed out to new families: Inside the 'Red Folder' An information packet for new Scouts and their parents would seem like a commonsensical idea. However, in many years as an active Scouter, I have seen more troops without a quality package than with one. Troop 1113's Parent's Guide, referred to as the "red folder," ranks among the best I've seen. Updated every year, it includes the following: Troop history, program, and meeting schedule; information on registration fees and dues, uniforms, and handbooks; equipment check-in/check-out procedures; transportation basics; advancement plan; money-earning projects; adult leadership; a list of suggested personal camping gear; and miscellaneous policies and practices. A new-Scout buyer's guide, including the location of the council Scout shop and other official BSA Supply distributors, as well as other area camping supply stores and places to get equipment repaired, and more. Recommended personal equipment for troop monthly camp-outs. Phone and e-mail list for members. Full-year calendar for troop activities. New-Scout checklist of required forms. Monthly camp-out permission forms. Summer camp information sheet, with dates, location, and cost of the next summer camp, and a description of the camp's first-year Scout program. Health forms. Troop Resource Survey (BSA No. 34437) to learn of talents, hobbies, and interests of parents, to help with merit badges or other troop activities. (A copy of this survey is found in the BSA publication Troop Program Resources, No. 33588A.) http://www.scoutingmagazine.org/issues/0405/a-year.html I'm putting ours together, as well. It won't be as detailed as the "Red Folder" but will have maybe half the items. We are about to experience some big growing pains, so I'm hoping this new Scout folder will help us get off to a good first step.

"There may be one other source of disagreement though, in the fall of 82 I started grad school in Athens... Go Dawgs!" Well, that explains a lot. My brother couldn't get into Tech, so he went to Georgia. :-) Yes, I know Manuel's, but I prefered Mo's & Joe's. I never seemed to see all of those politicians who were supposed to hang out at Manuel's. That freshman year I was in a dorm just over the bridge from The Varsity. We walked over there far too many times. A pair of naked dawgs walking, O-rings and a FO. Or a Glorified, a bag of rags and a coke. Those were the days... Gern, Start the group. Knock yourself out.

Hal, Gern, Yes, an individual can purchase a pre-1986 full auto if they jump through all the hoops - Class III, Stamp, etc. This is a closed pool of firearms. In the discussion, I took it when we said "purchase" we were talking about walking into a store and buying over the counter. That low murder rate occurred when full auto weapons were still being purchased. More people have been murdered with kids toys than with full auto. Should we ban toys? I was a freshman at Georgia Tech in Snowjam 82. Techwood Avenue was a parking lot, like most of Atlanta, with drivers trapped. Like you said, they all ended up abandoning their cars and tried to find a hotel room. For us students, it was a blast! I don't think the city owns a snow plow, but I think the state owns a few. No telling where they are. Schools closed today, so the kids are happy. The radio stations are broadcasting the usual "don't go out unless you absolutely have to" Not nearly as bad as Snowjam 82, but a good snowfall yesterday.

gwd, I wouldn't say you stepped all over the PLC, I would say you provided vision. Some people get so wrapped up in boy-lead they forget that the leaders do have a part in a Troop - to provide a vision, to give direction when needed. If the boys are in a rut, help them get out. MattR, You might also ask the boys to talk to Scouts in other Troops to find out what are their favorite trips. They might get some good ideas from them. As for participation, I repeat this same phrase in Webelos SM conferences, at our December COH, and whenever I feel it necessary: The real price of membership in this Troop will be unfailing regular attendance at its meetings and outings, and steady progress in all the things that make a Scout "Prepared." If I put my own time into the activities of this Troop I shall certainly expect you to do your part with equal faithfulness. Am I worried about scaring Webelos and their parents off to another Troop? Absolutely not. This statement lets them know our expectations, and if they aren't comfortable with it, I would prefer they find another Troop. We are all about quality, not quantity. I would much rather prefer to work with a small Troop of fired-up Scouts than a large Troop where they are so-so. I'm not smart enough to know how to run a boy-lead, Patrol Method program in a Troop where the boys don't show up regularly. I let those Webelos know that when they don't show up, they leave their Patrol a man short. They are counting on the members of their Patrol, and the Patrol is counting on them. Do we have 100% participation? Not all the time. Our Scouts are involved in many other activities, so there are conflicts. But because of their sense of duty and loyalty, I have been amazed at the lengths some have gone to in order to attend another event and our campout. Finally, how are your campfires? To me, the campfires have always provided the equivalent of the "Disney Magic" that brings them back. Does the Troop have a campfire program? A Scout acting as MC? Skits? Thorns and Roses? If not, your Troop is missing out on a huge opportunity.

Merlyn, You are venturing into waters over your head - be careful. Gun powder is a propellant. A rifle fires a projectile, a bullet, with that propellant. A rifle does not fire an object which contains an explosive element. A rocket launcher is not a rifle. Full auto firearms were available for purchase until 1986 - not 1934. Care to guess how many full auto weapons have been in the hands of law abiding citizens all these years? Over 240,000. Over 240,000 full auto weapons in the hands of citizens, and only 2 homicides, with one by a police officer. Yep, this is case where we need some government control! NOT! Thanks for playing. Ed, how about a nice gift for our departing contestant. Ed, The government either trusts its citizens, or it doesn't.

MileHigh writes: "Well, if they are not mentioned in the training syllabus for ITOLS (Boy Scout Outdoor Ldr Tng), not in the Tot'n Chip, not anywhere in the BSA handbook, and not in the GSS, my position as a trainer was that they are not authorized for use in our units." So, does your position qualify as a "myth" or "unwritten rule" or "other?"