King Ding Dong

SR what council are you in? Mid America Council only focused on LSSR to the best of my knowledge. I didn't see any new buildings at Cedars, Eagle or Wa-Kon-Da last summer. Seems odd to me they would be mess hall cooking at NYLT, seems like patrol cooking would allow them to utilize some skills. But then again most on this board feel it is cubicle skills for teens.

I'm just going back and reading, or re-reading this thread. You brought up several varied points in your post, but some really make me think.... I would so much rather see a boy leaning against a tree reading, than playing with technology..... but what I see more of is a boy or boys huddled up in a tent with a video game, with other cubs that didn't bring their games or tablet computers huddled around watching and wanting a turn. Our CM's sons are the ones with all of the latest gadgets, and it's usually around their tent where you find this huddle. On a campout, I view this tech as a sort of cancer. On a camp out last year, I had my son leave his tech at home. Unfortunately, other boys had theirs. I asked my son to go climb a tree or something, but it's hard when he wants to be right in the huddle! I wish I could drive a removal of that cancer from our pack, but as mentioned, our CM, as well as other leaders, are the tech crowd and I think view the tech as a way of getting the boys out of their hair so they can burry themselves in their own smartphones. Your point about TV on the home front is interesting. I was raised without much limit on TV. I have always contented that a kid can learn from TV, even stupid fiction. I feel that I was able to put myself in the situations of the story line and learn from it...... Situations that I may not otherwise find myself in..... shows like Andy Griffith, Brady Bunch, Munsters, Beaver, Lucy, etc.... usually had some sort of moral or social lesson I think even the newer ones that my kids watch now that aren't nearly as "wholesome", can be educational to a degree. Still, I do agree with your point that generally speaking kids with stricter limits tend to be more polite and socially well adjusted. My wife and I limit our kids with TV & tech, but MAYBE not nearly enough.... I'll have to give this some thought for sure. Zing dc ! A scout is trustworthy, obedient. Certainly your troop is not mandating that the scout violate the Scout Oath by violating the T&C of Facebook. I don't think the youth needs years of experience with Facebook in order to succeed in the workforce and college. They will have it down pat after a couple of weeks. Twitter is not rocket science either. There is plenty of time for that. Facebook may not even exist by the time they go to college. MySpace anyone ? They do need to know effective communication skills. Reading, writing, speaking. Things Facebook and Twitter do nothing to foster. I know I have given you a hard time on a few posts but you occasionally take a very hard line on issues that really seem to fly in the face of what Scouting is all about. I hope you stick around and give me a hard time when I say something equally as outrageous.

How is an individual scout account any different than the Camp Card program the BSA has been rolling out ? 1/2 of the money goes directly to each scout to pay for camp. http://www.stlbsa.org/programs/campcards/Documents/2013%20leader%20guide%20GSLAC%20StL.pdf

I am one. I am not confident taking the boys out in the woods, especially with the poorly marked trails at our local camp. I am however learning. IOLS was good, but not enough. An Advanced Outdoor Leader Skills course would be very beneficial. T-1 for adults can not be accomplished in one weekend and it appears Woodbadge is cubicle skills in an outdoor classroom.

I think we can solve this difference with Jblake by using better language. We do not volunteer for scouts, we are participating members of the unit. We each have different roles, some involve more participation than others, but we must all participate in the program. If you don't want to participate in the program, fine here is your check back and application back. If anyone tries to tell you ScoutParent participation is not required, I suggest you show them page 2 of the Youth Application that the ScoutParent must sign. "....the ScoutParent enthusiastically participates with their Scout and helps volunteer leaders provide the best quality program experience to all youth in the unit." GeogiaMom, next time you see your DE, I suggest you politely hand him a youth application and have him read it to you.

Boo, hiss. JBlake, I think in your 40+ years of volunteering, you must have forgotten what it's like to have young kids. Yes, you do sound like a "hard nosed Grinch" to quote your earlier post. Since you are venting about spoiled volunteers who expect to *gasp* bring their young children with them while they volunteer all day with their older children instead of putting them in day care for the week as you suggested (really? In my area, that would cost about $300 for the week) -- I hope you won't mind me responding with my vent from the other side as a burned out volunteer momma. Regardless of what you or anyone thinks is "fair", here are some facts: 1. Scouting can't happen without volunteers. Period. Without volunteer parents, there are no camps, no den meetings, nothing. 2. Good volunteers are hard to find. In our pack, less than 10% of the volunteers do all the work. I live in an area where most families have two working parents. I have grown very, very, very tired of people in our pack and in other kids' activities where I volunteer telling me: "Wow, you volunteer a lot. I wish I could, but I have a job." A. Yes, I am a work at home mom. When my oldest was born, I chose to give up a very good six figure job and start part time writing work from home so I could spend more time with my kids and my family. I did *not* make that choice so a few dozen double income families in our pack, church program, etc. could make twice as much as our family and still have all these volunteer led groups for their children without contributing squat. In fact, I've had to chase some of them down for bounced checks, etc. B. I am a work at home mom. I chose to greatly reduce my paycheck by working at home so I could have the flexibility to do things for *my* kids. Not so all of you could feel entitled to have me run around like a crazy person doing what you should be doing for *your* kids. Yes, I greatly resent the entitled attitude some people have -- to my time and effort. And don't even get me started about the drop and run parents who have the nerve to complain that the volunteer led program isn't up to their expectations. 3. So, if Scouting runs 100% on volunteer effort, and good volunteers are scarce in the best of circumstances, it only makes logical sense to make volunteering as cheap and easy as we can for the people we do get to volunteer. Simple logic, JBlake. For me to volunteer all day every day for a week in my son's Scout day camp, I have to give up my work time and income, and pay for all of my kids to attend the camp. That's more than enough. If you actually expect me to also pay $300 to arrange a week of day care for my daughter, you are out of your mind. 4. I am tired of having my little daughter referred to as a "tag along". Her name is Jennifer. She is very well behaved. She's not a nuisance. Over half of our pack's leaders are moms, all with preschoolers or babies. If you want us to buy the food, wash the dishes, haul the stuff to camp, cook your food, etc. while the very few volunteer dads do the fun stuff with their sons like Pinewood and archery, you had better not give me any, repeat any, flak about bringing my precious well-behaved little girl with me. I already feel like the pack scullery maid. Do not suggest that I pay for that privilege. Here's the deal. Last year, I started out as treasurer. Then, I was asked to be webmaster. Somewhere along the way, our committee chair decided I was his personal assistant and pack recordkeeper, and I started getting calls all the time to look up who paid for this, or who signed up for that. Then, the advancement chair moved out of state, and I was told "well, I guess you're the advancement chair now since you know about computers". Not asked, assumed. Then, no one volunteered to lead camp cards, so I got stuck with that job since I'm the treasurer, and I had to pay for the things. Oh, and the camping chair did squat as well. Since, as treasurer, I'm buying the food, paying for the campsite, and taking payments from parents, he just made himself scarce and let me take care of the rest of it. So, the upshot of all of this is that as of last week, I have quit all my various jobs but one: webmaster. The pack has lost an honest and reliable treasurer. I have no idea where they plan to get an advancement chair, camp card coordinator, etc for next year since I'm told it's against BSA policy to require parents of Scouts to volunteer time. I wish them luck. JBlake, honestly after the spring I've had, your post just ticked me off to no end. I honestly believe that the attitude you display here, and the BSA has displayed to me, is killing Scouting. On behalf of my son, I am very sad for this. If you want to complain, for heaven's sake, say something about the drop and run parents who do nothing to contribute. For you to complain about the people who *are* volunteering is just nuts. GeorgiaMomma Does two deep leadership require 4 eyes on all 50 eyes at all times. I think not. What happens when a SM sneaks off to use the facilities ? Again this situation would not occur because you state Scoutmaster and siblings are not permitted at Boy Scout events. It can occur at a Cub Scout event. Again, so what. I think you misunderstand two deep leadership.

We are considering a similar approach. The problem lies here. I want a quality program for my son, he deserves it. I will not accept the just canceling events like campouts, the Raingutter Regatta or PWD. I will find similarly minded people and work with them in a quality pack.

Thanks for info. I am all with you on this. I will seek clarification from some district staff. I can see not requiring a certain number of hours, but again everyone can at least do something. I think there is a difference between volunteering to help run the PWD and being a direct contact leader or treasurer. Certainly not every parent who does something like run a concession stand needs to be registered. If the BSA does have that policy and enforces it I will be moving on to a new pack. Maybe we can't force the parents to participate, but I don't think we are forced to accept those families that do not participate the following year. I believe we have some control over a units membership. I am not going to be a den leader AND popcorn kernel AND run PWD help nights AND camping coordinator AND committee member AND AND AND. I understand BSA wants members. I want to deliver a quality program. If I have to do it with a smaller pack and den, so be it. Good luck with your pack and I would quietly be shopping around, I am.

Just teasing you JoeBob. I went the admin building a couple of times for wifi and one of our leaders had to check in with an online course a few times. Our formations were not as bad as yours. 15 minutes total but the first 5 was wasted with is standing around in the hot sun waiting for the Staff to march down the road. Annoying after a long day in the heat, being hungry and knowing all that was for dinner was sloppy joes and that same iceburg lettuce and canned tomato salad. I think it would have been better if we had the troop line up by height with the youngest out front instead of the NSP in the back getting restless. That way the older scouts could have kept them in line instead of the adults. That SPL thinks he needs to be front and center. We had a troop from Tennessee that prepared pulled pork for the whole camp one night. Very Scouting of them and a much appreciated break from the high simple carb crap the camp served. They must have had a trailered pit with them. Camp next year will be patrol cooking, but the menu is not much better. I have a Bradley electric smoker that makes great smoked meats and they have a camping propane model for about $100 that allegedly works well in low winds. The problem is I couldn't feed the whole troop with it. Maybe I will just cook up a mess of ribs before camp next year and get some dry ice. Use the smoker to make a ton of atomic buffalo turds. My dream is to have a pig roast LBJ style, but that is not likely LNT compliant. Would be a great experience for the boys.

Boo, hiss. JBlake, I think in your 40+ years of volunteering, you must have forgotten what it's like to have young kids. Yes, you do sound like a "hard nosed Grinch" to quote your earlier post. Since you are venting about spoiled volunteers who expect to *gasp* bring their young children with them while they volunteer all day with their older children instead of putting them in day care for the week as you suggested (really? In my area, that would cost about $300 for the week) -- I hope you won't mind me responding with my vent from the other side as a burned out volunteer momma. Regardless of what you or anyone thinks is "fair", here are some facts: 1. Scouting can't happen without volunteers. Period. Without volunteer parents, there are no camps, no den meetings, nothing. 2. Good volunteers are hard to find. In our pack, less than 10% of the volunteers do all the work. I live in an area where most families have two working parents. I have grown very, very, very tired of people in our pack and in other kids' activities where I volunteer telling me: "Wow, you volunteer a lot. I wish I could, but I have a job." A. Yes, I am a work at home mom. When my oldest was born, I chose to give up a very good six figure job and start part time writing work from home so I could spend more time with my kids and my family. I did *not* make that choice so a few dozen double income families in our pack, church program, etc. could make twice as much as our family and still have all these volunteer led groups for their children without contributing squat. In fact, I've had to chase some of them down for bounced checks, etc. B. I am a work at home mom. I chose to greatly reduce my paycheck by working at home so I could have the flexibility to do things for *my* kids. Not so all of you could feel entitled to have me run around like a crazy person doing what you should be doing for *your* kids. Yes, I greatly resent the entitled attitude some people have -- to my time and effort. And don't even get me started about the drop and run parents who have the nerve to complain that the volunteer led program isn't up to their expectations. 3. So, if Scouting runs 100% on volunteer effort, and good volunteers are scarce in the best of circumstances, it only makes logical sense to make volunteering as cheap and easy as we can for the people we do get to volunteer. Simple logic, JBlake. For me to volunteer all day every day for a week in my son's Scout day camp, I have to give up my work time and income, and pay for all of my kids to attend the camp. That's more than enough. If you actually expect me to also pay $300 to arrange a week of day care for my daughter, you are out of your mind. 4. I am tired of having my little daughter referred to as a "tag along". Her name is Jennifer. She is very well behaved. She's not a nuisance. Over half of our pack's leaders are moms, all with preschoolers or babies. If you want us to buy the food, wash the dishes, haul the stuff to camp, cook your food, etc. while the very few volunteer dads do the fun stuff with their sons like Pinewood and archery, you had better not give me any, repeat any, flak about bringing my precious well-behaved little girl with me. I already feel like the pack scullery maid. Do not suggest that I pay for that privilege. Here's the deal. Last year, I started out as treasurer. Then, I was asked to be webmaster. Somewhere along the way, our committee chair decided I was his personal assistant and pack recordkeeper, and I started getting calls all the time to look up who paid for this, or who signed up for that. Then, the advancement chair moved out of state, and I was told "well, I guess you're the advancement chair now since you know about computers". Not asked, assumed. Then, no one volunteered to lead camp cards, so I got stuck with that job since I'm the treasurer, and I had to pay for the things. Oh, and the camping chair did squat as well. Since, as treasurer, I'm buying the food, paying for the campsite, and taking payments from parents, he just made himself scarce and let me take care of the rest of it. So, the upshot of all of this is that as of last week, I have quit all my various jobs but one: webmaster. The pack has lost an honest and reliable treasurer. I have no idea where they plan to get an advancement chair, camp card coordinator, etc for next year since I'm told it's against BSA policy to require parents of Scouts to volunteer time. I wish them luck. JBlake, honestly after the spring I've had, your post just ticked me off to no end. I honestly believe that the attitude you display here, and the BSA has displayed to me, is killing Scouting. On behalf of my son, I am very sad for this. If you want to complain, for heaven's sake, say something about the drop and run parents who do nothing to contribute. For you to complain about the people who *are* volunteering is just nuts. GeorgiaMomma So jblake are implying that there is something wrong with a mother feeding her child when it is hungry ? Cub scouts is a family program, Boy Scouts is not. So an sibling has no place at a camporee and a female SM should step aside temporarily if she needs to care for an infant. I see no problem at Cub activities.

Boo, hiss. JBlake, I think in your 40+ years of volunteering, you must have forgotten what it's like to have young kids. Yes, you do sound like a "hard nosed Grinch" to quote your earlier post. Since you are venting about spoiled volunteers who expect to *gasp* bring their young children with them while they volunteer all day with their older children instead of putting them in day care for the week as you suggested (really? In my area, that would cost about $300 for the week) -- I hope you won't mind me responding with my vent from the other side as a burned out volunteer momma. Regardless of what you or anyone thinks is "fair", here are some facts: 1. Scouting can't happen without volunteers. Period. Without volunteer parents, there are no camps, no den meetings, nothing. 2. Good volunteers are hard to find. In our pack, less than 10% of the volunteers do all the work. I live in an area where most families have two working parents. I have grown very, very, very tired of people in our pack and in other kids' activities where I volunteer telling me: "Wow, you volunteer a lot. I wish I could, but I have a job." A. Yes, I am a work at home mom. When my oldest was born, I chose to give up a very good six figure job and start part time writing work from home so I could spend more time with my kids and my family. I did *not* make that choice so a few dozen double income families in our pack, church program, etc. could make twice as much as our family and still have all these volunteer led groups for their children without contributing squat. In fact, I've had to chase some of them down for bounced checks, etc. B. I am a work at home mom. I chose to greatly reduce my paycheck by working at home so I could have the flexibility to do things for *my* kids. Not so all of you could feel entitled to have me run around like a crazy person doing what you should be doing for *your* kids. Yes, I greatly resent the entitled attitude some people have -- to my time and effort. And don't even get me started about the drop and run parents who have the nerve to complain that the volunteer led program isn't up to their expectations. 3. So, if Scouting runs 100% on volunteer effort, and good volunteers are scarce in the best of circumstances, it only makes logical sense to make volunteering as cheap and easy as we can for the people we do get to volunteer. Simple logic, JBlake. For me to volunteer all day every day for a week in my son's Scout day camp, I have to give up my work time and income, and pay for all of my kids to attend the camp. That's more than enough. If you actually expect me to also pay $300 to arrange a week of day care for my daughter, you are out of your mind. 4. I am tired of having my little daughter referred to as a "tag along". Her name is Jennifer. She is very well behaved. She's not a nuisance. Over half of our pack's leaders are moms, all with preschoolers or babies. If you want us to buy the food, wash the dishes, haul the stuff to camp, cook your food, etc. while the very few volunteer dads do the fun stuff with their sons like Pinewood and archery, you had better not give me any, repeat any, flak about bringing my precious well-behaved little girl with me. I already feel like the pack scullery maid. Do not suggest that I pay for that privilege. Here's the deal. Last year, I started out as treasurer. Then, I was asked to be webmaster. Somewhere along the way, our committee chair decided I was his personal assistant and pack recordkeeper, and I started getting calls all the time to look up who paid for this, or who signed up for that. Then, the advancement chair moved out of state, and I was told "well, I guess you're the advancement chair now since you know about computers". Not asked, assumed. Then, no one volunteered to lead camp cards, so I got stuck with that job since I'm the treasurer, and I had to pay for the things. Oh, and the camping chair did squat as well. Since, as treasurer, I'm buying the food, paying for the campsite, and taking payments from parents, he just made himself scarce and let me take care of the rest of it. So, the upshot of all of this is that as of last week, I have quit all my various jobs but one: webmaster. The pack has lost an honest and reliable treasurer. I have no idea where they plan to get an advancement chair, camp card coordinator, etc for next year since I'm told it's against BSA policy to require parents of Scouts to volunteer time. I wish them luck. JBlake, honestly after the spring I've had, your post just ticked me off to no end. I honestly believe that the attitude you display here, and the BSA has displayed to me, is killing Scouting. On behalf of my son, I am very sad for this. If you want to complain, for heaven's sake, say something about the drop and run parents who do nothing to contribute. For you to complain about the people who *are* volunteering is just nuts. GeorgiaMomma I am interested in this BSA policy of not requiring parents to volunteer. Can anyone point to it ? Our committee is getting ready to formulate our plans for next year. It is our opinion that even a single mom can do SOMETHING. I am at the point that either the parents step up and handle some things like popcorn kernel and treasurer or scouts is not for them or this pack is not for me.

I like those knives. Anyone know of a made in USA equivalent? Without the full metal frame, are they strong enough to last? Looks like they are nice enough, but still affordable for the cubbies. I like the look of their "my first knife" with a rounded tip, but they are SS not CS. Our Bear year is coming up, so I might consider giving one of these to each boy..... maybe engrave their names. Wow what a great knife for cubs. I will get one of the my first Opinels for my bear and recommend it to the parents. I wish I had known about these a couple of years ago. The round handle should make for a good grip for small hands. Even if they move on to a more traditional knife Ina year or two it is still a lot less than a trip to urgent care for stitches.

No you are not alone, but I am not with you. There is plenty I don't like about the BSA but that is outweighed by all the wonderful things I do like. I can say the same thing about my country. If the BSA is a financial enterprise they suck at it. The margins on any programs I have seen a very low. I certainly wouldn't call the BSA an icon of capitalism. I think part of the problem is those that plan on being "done" with the program. There is no destination, it is a journey. Why do you stay?

VBulletin: F

Facilities A Food F Coffee: FFF. It was undrinkable. Tasted more like green tea. Made my own. Scoutmaster Lounge: never went there, that's for wimps. MB Counselors: A+ to F- one turd continued to play cards when his area director told him to teach his class. Gotta love cell phone cameras. The next day there was a major attitude change. Gnats: F. I hate gnats Camp Director: Good except he just got his beads so he had to give the same old BP, Zulus, Boer War Speech. Please not again. Just sing the Announcements song a few times and call it a day. Troop Guides : A Scheduling: F. Sometimes you just have to say no. 20 kids cannot take the Swimming MB from one counselor at a time. If you don't send in your MB selections early, you might not get what you want. That's called Life. Soft serve: A Formation: this is part of the BSA I just don't get. Line 20 kids up in a row. Put on a skit in front of them so they can't see it. Expect them to behave when they can't see or hear anything. Such a waste.

Can you show me a BSA policy that requires a uniform to participate in Scouting? Give it a try, you will not find one. The uniform is not "part of the deal". Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts. The uniform is just one of many methods. Can you show me an official BSA definition of "class A". Give it a try, you will not find one. It is called the Field Uniform.

I'm just going back and reading, or re-reading this thread. You brought up several varied points in your post, but some really make me think.... I would so much rather see a boy leaning against a tree reading, than playing with technology..... but what I see more of is a boy or boys huddled up in a tent with a video game, with other cubs that didn't bring their games or tablet computers huddled around watching and wanting a turn. Our CM's sons are the ones with all of the latest gadgets, and it's usually around their tent where you find this huddle. On a campout, I view this tech as a sort of cancer. On a camp out last year, I had my son leave his tech at home. Unfortunately, other boys had theirs. I asked my son to go climb a tree or something, but it's hard when he wants to be right in the huddle! I wish I could drive a removal of that cancer from our pack, but as mentioned, our CM, as well as other leaders, are the tech crowd and I think view the tech as a way of getting the boys out of their hair so they can burry themselves in their own smartphones. Your point about TV on the home front is interesting. I was raised without much limit on TV. I have always contented that a kid can learn from TV, even stupid fiction. I feel that I was able to put myself in the situations of the story line and learn from it...... Situations that I may not otherwise find myself in..... shows like Andy Griffith, Brady Bunch, Munsters, Beaver, Lucy, etc.... usually had some sort of moral or social lesson I think even the newer ones that my kids watch now that aren't nearly as "wholesome", can be educational to a degree. Still, I do agree with your point that generally speaking kids with stricter limits tend to be more polite and socially well adjusted. My wife and I limit our kids with TV & tech, but MAYBE not nearly enough.... I'll have to give this some thought for sure. Facebook is in the business of using your information to make a profit. Given their past history I would not trust them with confidential information regarding minors. Our district highly discourages Facebook as a means of troop communication.

Umm, when I first read the articles I am certain they mentioned something about a "piece of metal" running from the shelter to an undisclosed location that allegedly carried the energy to the shelter. The two links make no mention of the metal as of a few minutes ago. Does anyone else recall that reporting ? I seem to have this problem in the digital age. I read something and then go back to it for reference and all of a sudden it is not the same. Maybe I am showing my age. Moosetracker, any idea what this piece of metal was ?

I must be getting really old. Huge crowds and long lines hold no appeal for me. I know my boys don't enjoy long lines either. I have never really heard positive experiences about a Jamboree but I will be all ears.

When was the last time you hired a babysitter ? I can't speak for the whole country but in two different cities in the fly over states it starts at $8.00 per hour for one child and $2.00 an hour for EACH extra child. It is insane. Military friends have described worse situations on the coasts. It was a $1.00 when I was a kid. I am talking about 12-16 year old girls. After 16 they can't be botherd with it. We stopped going out until we moved close to family. It costs $40 just to walk out the door for a few hours and then what are going to do ? You don't have any money left over. A "few bucks" doesn't cut it.

Ha. I don't know Pack, machetes and banks still has moonlighting for a drug cartel written all over it. Lol.

Thanks. Good info. No corner posts on the ones we had at BS camp. No fly either. I have a pic and will post later from a PC. Might get accused of being "prissy" with a bottle of Fabreeze. Lol. The local camp for the cubs is close by so I may stop by for a hike this week and take a look at them. See if it is as bad as the women say.

I certainly understand your point about "pay me back". Keep the coffee mug and t-shirt. I view this tot lot thing more as volunteers pulling together to "make it happen". Probably would be better if the tot lot was hosted elsewhere, such as someone's house. Churches for years have had volunteers hold "Sunday School" for infants and tots so the parents could attend a Bible study or other classes or maybe even help with a function or administrative tasks. Not sure how much religion those babies crawled away with. I really don't see a difference here. These parents are volunteering their time when they otherwise would not be able to. I don't see the "take" here. At our elementary school some teenagers volunteer to babysit the children in the gym so the parents can attend evening PTO meetings. Is that wrong ? I don't expect anything from the BSA or anyone else. I wouldn't need a discount on the fees if I wouldn't have to come up with $300 for a week of child care. I just can't do both right now. This council doesn't have that program and I am not going to ask. Maybe next year we can plan for it. One council had a need for more volunteers and found a way to make it work for for them. Some people just don't have the financial resources to pay for commercial childcare. My wife and I were fortunate enough to have friends in the pack that were willing to watch our kids for the weekend a couple of years ago so we could attend BALOO/OWL. We had no family in town. Some other parents in the pack could not commit to den leadership but could help us out for a weekend to benefit the pack. Where is the "take" here ?

A call to your Senator or Congressman might be beneficial. They can work wonders sometimes.

I like the concept behind the tot lot, though we don't have them here. I certainly would be more able to volunteer at cub and BS camp if there was some program for cubs at BS camp or a new BS at cub camp. I am in a real donut hole right now. The cost of day care plus camp fees put it to far out of reach. IIRC my old council had a program where if you were on staff you received a significant discount on camp fees. Our council is putting on a STEM BS camp with a supposed "real" MB program. Would love to volunteer and send my BS, but the total cost would be pushing $500.