Twocubdad

Electronics on campouts are like an incurable, chronic disease which we must endure and manage as best we can. The pocket knife analogy is lame. Sure both are useful tools in their place, but I've not seed a Scout spend a weekend whittling to the exclusion of any other activity or interaction. I'd be curious where Mr. Butler would draw the line. My guess he would be agreeable with just about anything if he thought it would bring in more money and members.

You should tell him what you and your wife would have done differently. Explain to him your techniques for getting a bunch of teenage boys to go to sleep when they don't want to. Maybe you can share your thoughts for fund raising opportunities so the troop can afford for all the boys can have single-occupancy rooms. Personally, I'd like to know what you would have done about the weather. End the conversation by handing him your and your wife's adult leader applications and offering to attend all future campouts. We're often accused of being tough on first-time posters here, so let me apologize for the sarcasm, but here's my point: Welcome to Scouting. They don't put this in the recruitment flyers, but part of the program is learning to deal with adversity and overcome obstacles. Some of my best memories of my days as a Scout are built around overcoming the "rough" times. Like my first campout at 10 degrees with a Sears sleeping bag more appropriate for a sleepover on the living room floor. Or halfway up Mt. Phillips with our crew huddled under a huge Ponderosa pine dodging half-inch hail stones. Sure, it would have been nice if your son's first couple campouts had been sunny and 75-degrees with little blue birds flitting around his tent, but it is what it is. Could it be that the troop anticipated the weather, realized they had a first timer with them and stayed in the cabin to accommodate you son? Honestly, my experience, the little guys will sleep through tornados when they are really zonked out. My guess is your son was probably enjoying hanging with the big dog and staying up way past mama's bedtime. The next day, when he was a grump and mama was fussin' at him for staying up, it was easy to throw the older boys under the bus. Secondly, it's interesting to me you didn't say a word about whether or not your son had fun. There's your answer. Your job is to support your son and the troop. Talk to your boy and draw out the fun he had and get him to focus on that. If you and/or your wife are stomping around the house p.o.'d that your kid was up late, he's going to reflect that. Instead, tell him about a similar experiences you had as a kid. Emphasize to him that part of growing up is making the best of difficult circumstances and having fun despite the weather and the noisy bunkmates. Talk about what he can do to control the situation next time, like taking a tent so he can camp away from the talkers or pack earplug. And when you talk to the Scoutmaster, thank him for taking a weekend away from his family and spending it in a cold, damp cabin with 14 noisy boys.

Actually, they collected the spores of running cedar in the late fall and used that for the same purpose. The spores are highly flammable and a pinch tossed in a fire has the same effect Stosh describes as a pinch of iron shavings.

A huge percentage of my sons' friends attend community colleges. I know of one who has transferred on schedule to a four-year college and one other who is actually completing a vocational program (welding). For the rest, community college just seems like a place to hang our while you and your parents get accustomed to the idea that you're not going to college.

I've tried twice to respond. But my log-in keep expiring (or something) which requires me to log out, log back in, navigate back to the thread and try to pick up my post again. I'm tired of trying.

Somewhat of an outlier question, but we're updating our policy on financial assistance and someone asked. If a Scout is going to camp on a scholarship from the troop but for whatever reason cancels, who gets the refund money? In the real world, the person or entity which made the original payment gets the refund. But here, while the troop is required to collect camp fees and write one check to the camp, parents individually apply for refunds and receive them. While that normally is a good thing (I don't want to take the time to chase down a refund for you), in the situation of a Scout going to camp on assistance, the money needs to go back to the troop. How does that work in your area? Clearly, this is a question for our camp director, but I thought I throw it out here.

None of the above. This isn't the military. The chain of command isn't that precisely defined. As LVAllen wrote, go by leadership positions -- PL, APL, Quartermaster and/or Scribe . (And I don't know there is a precise pecking order between QM is before Scribe, other than I've always seen them listed in that order.) Absent an elected Asst SPL or Asst. PL, I would have gotten the boys together and asked them to designate a leader for the activity. And not necessarily one of the two Tenderfoots. The boys could have selected anyone of the six. I'll also add that given the youth and inexperience of the Scouts, as the adult leader of that group I would be a much more visible observer than normal. (I'm assuming their age and ranks are indicative of inexperience. A good SM/ASM on the ground would know the capabilities of the Scouts and adjust his involvement accordingly. And OBTW, there is no such thing as a senior ASM either. There should have been some understanding of who the tour leader was with their name on the tour permit, if one was required. Seniority isn't a factor. From time to time our troop has had someone we referred to as the First Assistant SM. That's not an official designation, rather understanding that guy is the usual go-to guy in the absence of the Scoutmaster.

Merlyn! I've never known you to comment on a topic other than religion. Attaboy!

Yet your troop policy is making 'criminals' out of all these guys. Please see 18th Amendment. What your troop is settling into is what our troop's "appropriate use" policy states. If everyone is comfortable with the behavior, the policy should change to meet the behavior.

Gill -- don't know what to say about #1. The cell phone is the least of the issues in that story. #2 and #3 are covered by our troop's appropriate use policy and training. I'd have a difficult time not laughing in the face of parents in #2. No, check that, I would make a point to laugh in the face of parent's #2. For #3 our policy specifically states that the troop is not responsible for loss or damage to any personal electronics for any reason, including instances where the device was confiscated by troop leaders and the loss or damage occurs while it was in our possession. Think that sounds harsh? Leave your phone at home or stay home with it.

I disagree. That decision was the Scout's to make, not the district.

Gotta love that we're now getting Disney pop-up ads in the margin. Watch out Terry, they're going to want those advertising dollars back!

I really don't get this. Does anyone seriously think there needs to be a national policy on this? How about this: Act like adults, both in terms of being a bully and dealing with them. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. After years of rescuing kids from all life's little insults and refusing to allow them to deal with their own problems we eventually get adults with the same expectations.

Whether or not he has time to complete the project is the Scout's problem, and shouldn't be grounds for disapproval. Bad call. While completing the project before his birthday has a nice ring to it, but I would be careful about starting the project without some sort of written approval from the higher ups. Beginning work on a project before receiving all the proper approvals is a no-no. Don't give them that rope. Since this is a district board, I'd start with the council advancement chairman. The Scout has the right to appeal, but I would go with the council AC's advice on proceeding with the project pending the appeal. If he says complete the project before his 18th birthday, do it. If he says hold off pending the appeal, do that. But document everything. Here, our district is trying to get away from the monthly Eagle project meetings for just this reason. No, lack of planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part. But it's the committee's rules which create a month-long penalty for missing a deadline. It would not have been an unreasonable expectation for them to reschedule their own meeting for the next night, or the next week, rather than just baggin' it and making the Scouts wait until next month. Our committee is trying to set up a system where Scouts can submit projects online. Committee members can then review the proposals online at their leisure and ask questions and clarifications via email. I know now, our district AC -- one of the good guys -- will go out of his way to try to accommodate a Scouts under a time crunch.

So the PC crowd got to write the last one, apparently the lawyers wrote this. Here's hoping the folks who are actually responsible for taking care of the boys get a turn soon. But in fairness, I much prefer the lawyer's version to that of the PC folks. So you have a kid on the ground having a seizure and turning blue. After basic first aid you grab his medical form because, A) you want to be sure his parents signed the liability waiver (page 1); B) You want to make sure his creepy uncle doesn't try to check him out from camp (also page 1); C) You need to contact his folks and let them know you're taking him to the ER (page 2); or D) The paramedics are asking you about medications and allergies. (page 3) I believe the concept they are missing is called triage -- getting the most important stuff first. Fortunately, the layout is such that we can re-staple the pages in the correct order. A couple other, minor points -- I miss the vertical blank in the margin for the Scouts' names and unit numbers. Makes the forms much easier to find in a file folder. (But again, an easy fix). Also the big A, B and C watermarked on each page becomes a big muddy, indistinguishable mess when you copy the forms in black and white. Is identifying parts A, B or C more important than legibility?. Still, it's a big improvement over the last version, but that's more of a comment on how bad the old one was.

I don't care if you go to sleep or not. Just be quiet so those who want to may.

A few years ago one of the older Scouts decided my camp chair was the place for a nap -- and it was, if you were me. So I painted his toe nails pink -- with the leather dye out of the crafts box. It finally wore off by the end of the summer, about the time his job as a lifeguard wrapped up. His father still cracks up laughing anytime anyone mentions it. The kid not so much so.

I disagree with your premise that scouts need more programs offered to them, either from the staff or the unit leadership. What most camps fail to provide is free time boys can take advantage of the camp on their own. Our camp leaves a 90 minute open period in the afternoon. By the time boys get our of their last MB class, head back to the campsite, find their buddies, decide what they want to do and walk to the activity, there is hardly enough time left to actually do anything. Plus, most of the "good" open period activities are reserved by troops. So if you and your mates decide to take a chance and hike over to the shotgun range, there is a good chance the range has been reserved (so much for "open" time). At best, the instructors will try to work you in at the end of the period. The problem with the camps with which I am familiar is all the facilities are running merit badge classes ALL DAY. You want to check out a canoe and paddle over to a fishing spot on the far side of the lake? Sorry., we have three canoeing classes using the canoes. Same for all the major program areas. Scouts need less programming and more time to just be kid, hang out with their buddies and do what strikes their fancy.

Entertaining guests at every meal is what we call a restaurant. If your family is having guests at every meal you're not having family meals, you're entertaining the guest. Same for patrols. And after three meals they better be washing dishes.

Meal times are for patrols to have their own "family" meals, just like your family does (or should). They work together to cook and clean up, say grace together then spend the time talking. Plopping an adult in the middle completely changes the dynamic. Our adults lead by example and conduct our "patrol" meals the same way.

I think you will find most boys are quite compassionate and will to their best to remember your sons needs and accommodate him. But there are twits in every group. We have a scout in our troop with a Down's related disability. When one Scout started bullying him, some of the other guys let it be know the behavior wouldn't be tolerated. Okay, they told him they would kick his butt if he didn't quit. While we had a discussion about technique, you have to appreciate the thought.

I've got a new membership chairman cut from the same cloth. Isn't it nice when that happens?

Next time you speak, ask him how much TL budgets to maintain their local camps. Right.

Depends on the MB. The only value I see in these district- or council-wide MB classes is for very narrow or technical MBs which would be difficult for Scouts to earn on their own. Nuclear Science, Oceanography, etc. The resources for these MB -- both expertise and facilities -- are frequently limited. Offering these MBs as in a group setting may be the only opportunity for Scouts to take them and I think is a reasonable accommodation. HOWEVER, under no circumstance would I participate in one of these sessions to teach a merit badge which is commonly available. That includes all the Eagle required MBs. If asked to help, I would decline the invitation and remind the organizers that my contact information is on the district MB counselor list and I will be more than happy to work INDIVIDUALLY with any Scout who is interested enough to call and make an appointment (within YPT guidelines, of course) One of the great benefits of the merit badge program which has been lost in the rush to efficiently and expeditiously check as many boxes as quickly as we can is the whole notion of Adult Association. One of the major purposes of MBs is to require Scouts to develop relationships with adults of character who have some level of expertise in their chosen field. Personally, I think most MBs should include a couple meetings with the counselor. Too often I see boys print MB work sheets from meritbadge.com and expect the only function of the counselor is to grade their paper. How did that Scout benefit from the counselor's expertise? Another benefit is having Scouts learn to make and keep appointments, work with unfamiliar adults and go through all the logistics of setting up meetings and working through them. MB colleges completely miss this. Then again, so do summer camps, but that's another thread.

I learned today my Scoutmaster passed away early this morning. I've been asked to speak at his funeral. Thank you for posting this, SSS. It is perfect. TwoCubDad