Twocubdad

I agree with much of what you've written, Fred, especially regarding the herd mentality. No, there isn't much informed decision making, mostly just following the den leader or the alpha kids in the den. Our troop was on the road to oblivion when my older son and I joined for just this reason. Prior to our joining the troop split off another troop and for three years all the Webelos from the pack followed their older brothers and den leaders to the new troop. I'm proud to say, that my son was the one to make the decision to stay with the CO troop and pulled a handful of his friends along. My first 18 months in the troop I was still Cubmaster and invested a great deal of effort into recruiting the Webelos and rebuilding relationships with the pack. The relationship between a pack and troop is a two-way street. Unfortunately, too many Pack leaders have a 'what have you done for me lately' attitude toward their brother troop. I've sat through any number of Webelos Transition classes and Roundtable presentations which reinforce this attitude. They tend to be long laundry list of things the troop should be doing for the pack and not much more. I've literally had pack leaders elbow me and ask, "why aren't you doing all that stuff for us?" For one, the guy doing the presentation is full of mud. But mostly because it's not the troop's job to serve the pack. We are here to serve the Scouts in our respective units. In many cases, the troop leaders HAVE served the pack for many years, establishing the pack program the current leaders inherited. That fancy Pinewood Derby track you're using? My guys sold the popcorn to pay for it. The scripts you still use for rank presentations, Arrow of Light and crossover? I wrote them 12 years ago. Neither bragging nor complaining, just pointing out there is a longer view that last week's den meeting. Which is precisely the point of the UK-style Scout group and an assumed continuum through one CO's units -- institutional legs. It does give you the opportunity to build more sustainable programs. To a lesser degree that still applies despite the unnecessary and artificial divide between Pack and Troop. All that said, we put a great deal of effort into the care and feeding of our brother pack. As SM I probably attend half the pack leaders' meetings through the year. We make a BIG DEAL (emphasis AND SHOUTING, E92) of our annual Webelos campout. We do our best to recruit and train capable Den Chief’s for the pack BUT we expect the Den Leaders to take the time to understand what a Den Chief’s actual job is and that the DL is the DC supervisor and mentor in what is a Troop-level position of responsibility. We work together with the pack on Scouting for Food and invite the pack to breakfast the morning before we do the collections. Our patrols spend a month or more preparing a great program for the Webelos campout every fall. We expect the pack leaders and parents to understand the campout is a big deal and important part of the transition and supporting our efforts by showing up with their Webelos. In return we get Cubs, Cub leaders and parents who have a better-than-usual understanding of Boy Scouts and are excited to join our troop. Shopping is not a question. As for Den Leaders with a foot in another troop, I do believe they owe the chartered organization’s troop something. A reasonable expectation should be for them to not influence their den’s decision to go to the other troop. If, as a parent, you believe your boys are better off in a different troop, fine. But at minimum you should be neutral about the troop the other boys in your den/pack select.

Wow is right. The DC should be removed for publicly criticizing one unit's leadership at Roundtable. The rest is just piling on.

When was the last time a troop was mobilized for a disaster? Generally, the instructions we hear in the media is to stay home and out of the way. These days, professional emergency services don't want a bunch of untrained soon-to-be victims running around a disaster site. Filling sandbags is the only thing mentioned which may involve Scouts, but we would have to drive 400 miles to do that. Once we had the troop set up a mobile kitchen, pretending that in the event of a hurricane we could head to the coast and set up near one of the staging areas for emergency workers. We set up at a church athletic league for needy kids and fed them hotdogs. It was a huge undertaking and no small expense. And while it was a nice little service to the community, it had virtually no meaning as an emergency preparedness drill. Our Scouts usually take E-Prep at summer camp and usually come home with a partial due to this requirement. We struggle to come up with something meaningful. Honestly, the most realistic scenario would be for the camp to turn their required emergency drill into something a little more for the boys taking E-Prep. Or maybe we just count the camp drill as mobilizing the troop?

Too tightly wound. Like a bull's butt in fly season. One of my guys favorite activities is playing capture the flag just as you describe, except they do it through the wee hours of the morning with all the adults asleep. They know where to find me if a problem arises. Does your CC or someone else in troop understand the difference between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts? If so, have them talk to Mr. Bull's Butt. The conversation needs to focus on his chastising your SPL. His opinion about the meeting aside, that was out of line. Since the SPL is your son, that conversation would be better coming from someone else. Manhunt with flashlights? Sheesh. Maybe all the boys could wear their old blink-blink shoes from kindergarten.

Our council hasn't lost a single Scouts over the issue. To date. Of course drops don't show up until the first wave of rechartering begins next month. Makes me wonder of the 'Bama boys aren't playing footsie with the same numbers. Stay tuned.

Reason we don't do Klondike #11. Down south in the land of the pines sleds don't make much sense. Dragging heavy sleds over rocks and roots only serves to favor brute strength. Not many troops around here backpack with sleds. Many of our Scouts have invested in and are accustomed to using these things called backpacks. Although the written guidelines neither require sleds nor prohibit carrying gear in backpacks, the Ol' Boys have determined all gear must be stowed on sleds. Same for sled design. The rules only specify the height and width of sleds, the Ol' Boys say sleds must look like the sleds their troops use. Innovation is not allowed.

Reason 16 we don't do Klondike. Our district runs two separate camporees for younger and older Scouts, but even within the smaller demographic groups, there are still troops which create patrols specifically for Klondike. Of course the swear up and down they don't stack the patrols. My problem is that with this system troops with mixed-age patrols are required to shuffle their patrols by age in order to meet the camporee rules. So you Green Bar has spend a year training his patrol, developing a team and honing his leadership, but because his birthday falls a few weeks before the camporee, he's sidelined. Why? There are other rules which work against the patrol system I don't care for. And yes, I spent three years working through the system trying to get the Ol' Boys to make some reasonable accommodations for the different ways troops apply the program. Not a chance.

March is a great time for survival camping in Carolina. Not too cold, no bugs yet. Our guys love doing this and put it on the calendar every year. Consequently, my greatest challenge as an SM is encouraging them to do different things every year to keep it interesting. Start with some instruction time during the troop meetings leading up to the campout, especially since you've never done it before. One of the things we do is to have the Scouts put together a survival kit. The only limitation is it has to be something they will be willing to carry on every outing. Demonstrate some utensil-free cooking techniques. Build some shelters, even if your meeting location only allows small-scale versions. Make sure your instruction focuses on the real priorities -- water, shelter, rescue. If all your guys do is watch Discovery, they may get the idea that walking off a glacier is a good idea rather than going to ground, focusing on the basics and making sure SAR can see you. As to the campout, location is important. Particularly with shelters, you need a site where the property owner is okay, especially if you are cutting material. We camp on tree farm (if you are in eastern NC they are everywhere) and the property owner encourages us to cut the hardwoods which compete with the pine trees he is growing. As to program, folks have mentioned a number of good ideas. We like to give the Scouts some "found" resources to work with, like a tin can, a plastic bottle and food. We try to make the food similar to what the Scouts could manage in a real survival situation like a fish, shrimp (crawdads) a chicken filet or small steak (rabbit or squirrel). You may or may not allow them their individual survival kits or may have the whole patrol build one. If so, limit them by giving them something like requiring everything fit in a quart Ziploc bag. Then start throwing challenges at them. Make them run a short orienteering course -- no problem is their kit includes a small compass. Or first aid problems (again,what's in their survival kit makes a difference. Make them boil water -- tin can is easy, plastic bottle is difficult, nothing is really hard. Use you imagination. All the guys watch the survival shows on TV, so you should have some ideas. But remember, it's a drill. You don't want anyone sick from eating raw chicken, or hypothermic because their shelter leaks or even ruin expensive clothes or gear. No, you can't pull the wiring harness out of my truck to use for cordage.

I was surprised to see that too. I think the belt loop program is a good addition I'd hate to see it go (and don't forget the corresponding pins which aren't easy to earn). If a DL is running a decent den program, most of the den is done with their rank badges by February. BL are great filler programs, either for the spring or sprinkled throughout the year. And you're right Base, but at 7 or 8 Shiney is pretty good motivation.

Slide 2 says something about changing to provide today's Scouts with what the both want and need. How many Scouts have complained that the program needs a greater emphasis on nutrition, religion and outdoor ethics? No, me either. One constant want since I joined in 1969 has been to cut down on the school-work merit badges, but I see no mention of that.

It's all about attitude. If they go thinking they already know it all and are going to be bored, they will. If they look at as another chance to camp and share a weekend in the woods with new folks of similar interest, they'll have a good time. My IOLS patrol was exactly as you describe. Four Eagle Scouts, a recently-retired Army Ranger and a mom who was totally clueless. But we had a blast. The troop guide wandered into our campsite to teach us knots. We spent the time showing each other fancy climbing knots and rope tricks. The guide finally quit trying to teach us anything, mumbled something about us making sure Patty knew her knots (which we did) and left. Did I learn anything? Not from the staff, but picked up a few new things from the other guys and made some friends. I still see Patty at events from time to time. This is no different than dealing with older Scouts at a troop meeting or camporee where the program is below their skill level. As a SM, how do you help those older Scouts get something from that program?

Our troop associated MBCs are the only opportunity our Scouts have for earning MBs the right way. We simply say "no" to our boys attending the local MB colleges.

The night this hit the fan (Thursday?) I spent some time flipping between CNN and Fox listening to the all-to predictable opinions on this. I can't say I'm a big fan of DD, but I will catch snips of the show here and there. Honestly, I find it repetitive. Watch two episodes and you know everything you need to know about the show. But I gotta think if you enjoy watching 13-year-olds run around in the woods doing silly thing and having fun, you will at least have an appreciation for these guys doing basically the same thing. I appreciate that they always close the show with a family meal, a prayer and a Scoutmaster's Minute-esque moral to the story. Come to think of it, the show covers about five of the seven parts of a good troop meeting. After watching the coverage of the DD flap, I turn in. TwoCubMom was already asleep with the TV on E! or whatever cable channel she watches. As I turn in Chelsea Handler's show was on. The topic being discussed by Chelsea and her co-hosts was the various forms of sodomy they feel compelled to perform as single women. The language used was just as explicit as that used by Phil Robertson. They also chose to display a "training kit" featuring a selection of devices of increasing diameter which could be of use to women who find themselves similarly situated. I was struck by the remarkable similarity of what was described by Handler and Robertson (minus the visual aids). The difference was that Robertson described it as a sin. Handler promoted it as being necessary in order to get a second date. So, Moose, where is the outrage with how Handler & Co. expressed their opinions? Where are the conservative protester calling for Handler's suspension? Why aren't the professional NOW spokeswomen on CNN decrying the objectification of women? Keep in mind this wasn't an unedited interview but the approved, edited, broadcast version of her show. Perhaps the graphic description of a particular sex act isn't the issue, but is, in fact, Robertson's belief -- shared by about half the US population, according to polls -- that some sex acts are sins. Why is it those who promote base behavior are cheered and given contract extensions and those who speak against it or profess conservative traditional view toward it lose their job and are vilified in the media? Used to be that freedom of expression meant when someone expressed an opinion contrary to your own you were free to state your opinion to the contrary. Over time reason prevailed and the truth became apparent. No longer. Now, when someone expresses an opinion contrary to the prevailing media narrative, the Keepers of All Things Politically Correct come down in force with personal and economic attacks on the individual, If one doesn't like Phil Robertson's opinions, state your own and explain why he is wrong. The truth will become apparent.

Ding! Correct Answer. Let the troop handle it. Nothing bad comes from 36 hours of lapsed registration. Anyone really think someone from the council will come in Saturday morning to purge the rolls?

I agree..I would award each category (age division) 1st through 4th with Some award and then Overall based on the average.to the Clans. I would say something like 1st Place Event = 5 points 2nd Place Event finish = 3 Points 3rd Place Finish = 2 Points 4th Place Finish = 1 Point Overall Scout = Highest Total based on Top 4 Finishes Overall Clan Based on Accumulated Scouts Scores Some Knuckle Dragging Traditions are Still as good today as they were 100 Years ago..I have never agreed with awarding everyone with equal awards unless everyone equally participates. If ya award everyone a Blue ribbon Scouters will stop trying to do their best because no matter how good they get and how hard they try. You really should try reading what I wrote. Not everyone gets a blue ribbon. There are STANDARDS against which the Scouts compete. Different awards for how well each patrol compares against the standards. If every patrol rates as exemplary, then, yes, theoretically all could get blue ribbons. But you may want to re-evaluate your standards. This tradition, by the way, is at least 40 years old as it is how camporees operated when/where I was a youth.

Thank you for providing the standard response I got from the local knuckle-draggers here. Since they couldn't see any advantage beyond "the way we've always done it," they, too, assumed this approach was another wussy, everyone-gets-a-ribbon system. There is competition and there is fair competition.

This is one of the reasons we don't attend district camporees. A typical camporee the winning patrol may score 350 points. Third place may be less than 10 points behind. So while scoring things like leadership and scout spirit you're telling me the scoring system is accurate to one or two percentage points? Of course there is no accommodation for the things you mention like size of troop, age or rank of patrol members. The winners usually came from the troops which ran the events and had adults who knew the ins and outs of the system or who stack their patrols to ensure a winner. Instead of trying to render the competition into first through last place, why not develop standards for what is below standards, above standards and exemplary then award white, red and blue ribbons? This is, after all, how the program works. We don't score all the scouts in the troop then award Eagle to the first place Scout, Life to second place, etc. We have standard. If you meet the mark you earn the award. I suggested this in our district and was accused of being a communist, so beware. Some folks are awfully attached to their first place trophies.

Clearly Christ came into the world so that we may beat up one another in His name. And proving once again the world is full of jackasses of all faiths.

Except this is the sort of grass-roots pressure which caused companies like L-M to drop Scouting in the first place. Well that and overwhelming media bias (anyone else paying attention to the Duck Dynasty flap?) Perhaps a better approach would be for us to contact our Representatives and Senators and asking why our tax money is going to companies like this. It's all about money and power.

This Merry Christmas/Happy Holiday junk gets trotted out every year. Who cares? Last time I checked, Christmas is one of the holidays celebrated this time of the year. If someone wants to wish me a merry Christmas, fine. If they want to wish me a Swell Sewy Yelda (thanks for the list, NAE), that's okay too. If the want to lump all the holidays together, I don't mind that either. Some folks sure go out of their way to find thing to be offended over.

Just checking to see if my posts go through.

Perhaps not everyone thinks NOAC is on a par with jamboree? It's basically a convention, staying in a hotel/dorm room and eating in a cafeteria. You can argue attending the BSA annual meeting is on the same par.

So now, I'm able to open and create replies, but when I hit submit I get an error telling me my message must be minimum of 10 characters -- it doesn't recognize that I 've entered anything.

Not that it really matters here, but how does the COR get himself appointed as Institutional Head? The IH is the in-fact leader of the chartering organization and is the Institutional Head through BSA by way of his/her position in with the institution How do you appoint someone other than the in-fact head of the institution to be IH? I know that the in-fact leader of the chartering institution can also serve as COR, but he/she starts as IH and is appointed COR.

Harsh? I see nothing harsh whatsoever. A very gentle and well padded reminder of what his responsibilities are.