blw2

I looked at a bit a long while back... looked at all of those tools I could find.... although I don't recall it well specifically so it didn't shine.. but that was probably because I was looking from the perspective of cubs Determined they were all nearly worthless at the cub level. No real need to track anything, and that seems to be a major focus We do need communications and calendar tools, which it seems to do ok. I'm looking forward to see what BSA does or doesn't do with it....

yeah, sorry, I just have added a I was being sarcastic since we don't have one..... at least to my knowledge

I have to say that sounds like a really great thing. I can imagine another good summer week could be had doing something like a section of the AT, or other good trail..... or a canoe trip down a river Don't have to cover a lot of ground, especially if there are younger or less capable ones around.... hike a bit, set up for a couple days on a lake as you described.... hike a bit more.... maybe another night or two in another location....

I'm late to this one..... and I must admit to not reading every post thoroughly, as there are some long ones. but based on the gist I'm getting, I have to say I'm with @ on this one. UC? what's that DE? except for maybe twice or three times when I was able to hand off or pick-up some paperwork form the DE at a roundtable or such instead of taking it all the way down to council, I've never had much help from our many DE's (and I've only been at this thing for 4 years) I will say that we have some great positive energy form a group of volunteers that work the RT, and most of these same folks are heavily involved in the cub day and twilight camps for the summer. But sadly I have never been able to have my son attend, so I can't speak to how good they are..... And there are some folks that work hard I'm sure for our Cub-O-Ree, or whatever they're calling it these days, but honestly.... we went once and I would rather go to some similar council events that they put on every year. I do try to attend RT when i can and find it valuable, but honestly say I don't get huge value from it. For me, it serves mostly as a social networking thing and to motivate me a bit.... & I think that in person training would, in theory, be much better if they were offered, but round here its hit and miss, very sketchy..... But I actually think these trainings would be better, or at least more plentiful, if the professionals would head them up using volunteer instructors. I know, that's the last thing we want is to have pros do the teaching.... but I think if they did the facilitating so that so much doesn't have to be shouldered by volunteers, it would be a better situation.... I mean, pull it together, reserve the space, organize, support.... do all the stuff that a volunteer doesn't have time to do....

stosh I think what you are saying makes sense. There is a lot I have yet to experience.... this concept of troop guide is one. I just wonder if my son will ever benefit form this ideal of a troop.

yes, ok true enough. Makes sense.... but how does a patrol of green horns have any depth of experience or leadership? Seems like a military platoon of all buck privates.

interesting discussion I see the point of a patrol of friends.... and that most likely means the same or at least very close ages.... But when I think of scouting, at least theoretically, I think of older more senior ranked boys mentoring and helping the younger boys. Doesn't work so well when the PL is the same age and has the same experience level. I have no recollection how the patrols were set up during my short time in the troop as a boy.

I've heard many people say 80%/20%.... but I think the doers are less.... more in line with your 10% number, based on my experience.

Just came back from helping a band field trip. I was shocked that they didn't limit chaperones.... almost every kid had a parent along. When i signed up, I did so because my son wanted me to come along, but I thought I would be helping too. When I found out that for the amusement park portion I would only be chaperoning my own son, and that there were only a very few chaperoned groups, I figured I wasn't needed. Would have backed out except I had already paid, and DS wanted me to come along.... Everyone there of course helped in some ways, but just based on my casual observance most did a lot of pocket holding. It was a good trip. Made some memories with DS, and I felt like I actually helped..... I was thinking while I was inside the belly of the bus loading or unloading, how scouting really conditions a person for not being shy about jumping in to help. Maybe many of these folks just don't know how to pull their hands out of their pockets????

@@SlowDerbyRacer We historically lay off during the summer.... "the way it's always been done..." Seems like most packs near me do at least a little something over the summer, but I don't think any of them do a full meeting schedule.... just like a summer potluck picnic, maybe a camp out. I like the idea of doing a little something like that. i think it would help with retention & I like the idea of a minor effort in early recruiting for that event. But we don't have the "energy" to pull it together....

yep, sure would be. I would say this current set of awards.... well at least the few I've looked into hoping to find some way to recognize my den leaders... are a disappointment since some of the requirements are things that are outside of the scouter's control. They seem like something cooked up around a big corporation's mid level management's conference room table. I do like your idea of a system of official awards given from the boys.

thanks @, that is quite a document. I'll have to flip through that when I have more time.... It sure looks like somebody called a meeting or two to pull off that thing!

Yep, if we had a functioning committee..... but who are these DE and UC people? both positions are vacant as far as I know.

I have often thought that is a big problem in scouting..... DE's and such not really focusing energy where it seems they are needed. We have these "pros", who's full time job is scouting. Then we have the volunteer staff doing ALL of the heavy lifting, who have other jobs taking up their full time 40, 50, 60+ hours a week jobs doing something completely different, so they often don't have the time or the energy to do much beyond the minimum. They really should be geared and equipped to really help, train, etc.... rather than meddle. @@Stosh, you know.... I guess my real problem is that I wasn't as absolute as I should be. I want my end date to be now..... but I have stated basically, that it "should be now, because I will absolutely will be gone next February..... so transitioning now gives me time to be around to help if needed" I have been careful to not say that Feb is my last day, indicating Now is the time.... Well actually this was all presented a few months back.... and was hinted at the start of this school year when I was recruiting for an ASM to groom to take it.... For reference "now", because our pack doesn't have a summer program and we just had out last meeting for the school year.... so this is the logical time. We have said that we'll pull together one last parent meeting soon, and my suggestion to the outgoing CC is that we shouldn't have an agenda and not state at all that we are willing if necessary to stick around in the jobs until Feb..... I have laid out the situation, defined the many jobs that are vacant... so I have suggested we get everyone together, and let the rest of them figure out who is doing what, and how.... we'll be there IF they have any questions.....

you know, that is very likely the case! I just need to relax!!!!

yeah, problem one is that we really don't have a committee. Acouple folks are registered, but they have left the building. The CC is basically past the place I am with his son long out of the pack and he's ready to go. I've already marched that road a few times, trying to identify candidate number 1, and so on.... for ASM, and some others.... Got me nowhere except out of some time and energy. @@Stosh I have long ago come around to exactly what you are saying. At first I soft pedaled it figuring that when folks see that there's a need, they would fill it. Now I have said, I'm gone with my son's den. That's my date. and I laid it out that I'm not doing this next year as it makes no sense to do it half a year I have been careful to NOT tell them that I will do it half a year if I have to..... but my motivation would really only be for my son and his den.... although I really don't want to leave the other boys hanging without a pack..... So my delimma.... the reason for this post.... I'm wrestling with what I should do given the potential scenarios... Should I stay on the committee to help next year, or should I back away completely and just be dad(?) or should I just save my breath and keep the job until Crossover(?)

that list is a great help @@Eagle94-A1 thank you! @@qwazse and @, thank you too. I think the whole thing about parents getting ushered to another room is a little weird though.... but I can see point of it.... one of those two way mirrors would be good for the new moms I'd bet

@@Stosh, I've seen you reference this before.... I'm sure the full story is buried someplace among your 6,300 posts.... but forgive me, I'm not about to read through all of them.... "Expecting too much from the boys" I know that's "code" for something.... Was it that the parents felt out of the loop? or maybe they felt that they weren't welcome? or were the boys complaining? I've seen SM's recommend things in the interest of boy led, that would make me as a dad feel pretty put-off..... but stepping back I realize that it's a fine line in a way, for the sake of the boys you need to have the adult parents and leaders step back....but as a parent you want to be involved. It seems that with our troop, they have an influx of new cub parents that are very involved. On a recent camp trip where they hosted us, there were a lot of non-ASM committee members and maybe even parents on the camp. I guess I expected for only ASM and the scoutmaster to be along..... but as a dad, I would certainly want the option to tag along to see what's happening.... So I'm wondering if friction around this area is what caused their problem with you?

I've been reading lately, some posts by retiring scout masters. Seems the general consensus is that the old guy should vacate for a period of time, rather than sticking around to "help". My son is in WEBELOS, and so he'll only be with the pack until February or so. I have no intention on sticking around after that. I took on Cubmaster reluctantly, after the previous one didn't want to do it any more and nobody else wanted it I have never felt it was my best position since I'm not the up in front entertainer type of guy. BUT I have enjoyed it. I like working with the boys and it's really great trying to come up with fun things to do. I'd like to think that I have done an ok job. I feel like I'm starting to get in the groove with it... But I really don't figure it's in the best interest for the pack for me to only do it half a year.... I don't have an ACM, despite a lot of effort.... so nobody is set-up to take it Our CC also wants to step out. We need a treasurer, a secretary... well really we do not have a functioning committee at all. I have laid this whole thing out to the pack during a pack meeting and followed up with an email for the benefit of those that missed the meeting. The CC & I are trying again to have a parent meeting, hoping that this time we'll get some folks to show up.... I have put a lot of energy into the pack. I have researched ideas, tried every angle to recruit, attended round tables, participated here, focused energy in making the pack meetings as good as I could make them given the team and funds that I have.... But I feel like I have failed the pack in a big way, by not having an escape plan lined up I seriously want to stick around to help in some way if needed, so I'm a bit stuck on what my place in the mix is or should be..... I guess I should step out completely unless everyone refuses to take the job or perhaps I should sign on as committee member so the new guy doesn't feel thrown out to sea like I did.... but hang back or if everyone refuses, I guess we'll have a half year CM ..... What are your thoughts?

My recent thread on troop emails gave me an idea for another question. As a WEBELOS dad I'm trying to think forward for my son's benefit, so that I can best advise and guide him... and as CM, i want to give the best help I can to our WEBELOS DL AND the other boys. Selecting a troop based on which friends are there, or his general feel or vibe... is of course all on him to figure out.... But considering patrol method, boy led, and troop structure.... and the given that many troops struggle with it in different ways.... I starting to think on how I might guide them in what to look for in a troop. They don't really know much of anything about these concepts. So I'm trying to figure out how best to guide my son (and the others) on this.....to explain how a troop is supposed to run and what he might want to look for. But I'm wondering of this might backfire if the troops in the area just don't come close..... SO, especially to you troop folks out there.... from your perspective what are the things a boy should be looking for when he visits your troop? questions to ask?

this really touches on what I was thinking... that the email thing is really more for the parents. By starting the thread, I was just trying to get a feel for how many committees actually do it, and to what degree. I should elaborate a bit on my motivation for this thread... As CM, I'm on the email list for the troop. Lately, as my son nears his AOL and crossover, I have taken more of an interest in the troop.... and I have been wrapping my head tighter around patrol methods, boy led, etc.... AND, I'm trying to figure out how to best serve my son in helping him find the best troop. SO our troop is bouncing back from some troubles. It has grown a lot in the last couple years, and they are "transitioning" to boy led. With the influx of a lot of new scouts, they have a lot of energy on the committee. Honestly I'm wondering if they have too much energy. From the perspective of only the emails, it seems that the committee adults are doing all of the scheduling, communicating, etc... @@Twocubdad, I think your reply confirms what I was thinking that there very well could be the boy side of the communication that I'm just not looped in on. My son wants me to continue as a scouter. He has initiated that point a few times. I would like to continue in some fashion I think too. I'm not so sure I want to be a committee member if they run it like a 3rd year WEBELOS den.... but maybe it's not so bad as I may only be seeing the one side..... the side meant for the parents

I've got to say I think you are doing the right thing... stepping out cold I haven't been at it nearly as long as you, but After over extending myself in the pack for a few years I can relate to your dread of the camp, but enjoying once you're there... Enjoy the "me" time!

With pure Boy Led, who takes care of emailing out meeting schedules and reminders, setting meeting schedules for troop meetings, Courts of Honor, etc... the committee or the boys?

Not sure if it applies exactly to your question.... but from the Cubmaster perspective I agree with @ in that getting parent and leader help is right on up there as my top problem I might add; coming into a dynamic with lots of positive energy against other scouters that are not so energetic and burned out even... Feeling like we have to re-invent the wheel in some areas, because things aren't passed along but in other areas fighting the attitude, "well it's always been done this way" oh, and a big frustration I had early on was wanting to get in-person training for the group discussion, but only having it offered during the school year when I would be busiest with the pack activities and meetings.

relating to my first post of this thread about leaders NOT picking their sons.... or more correctly favoring them I must admit that it has crossed my mind that, in small insignificant matters, why not favor him? He's the one giving up his dad this perspective is of course more relevant at the tiger level when dad is the parent partner.... and diminishes with time.... but still, why not? I can only remember consciously doing this once..... so I figure as a whole he's taken it "on the chin" more than not....