blw2

Hey, that gives me an idea.... they should make a training opportunity adults go out in the woods, under the tutelage of a true expert woodsman, and camp for maybe a weekend or two without the boys around, learning and truly practicing woodscraft skills, knots, shelter building, etc.... all with no saddle of leadership theory, classroom work, or any political non-sense.... all hands on, just becoming more proficient in the skills.... .... they could call it wood-beads maybe...??? I would sign up for such a course!

I hear you! I've felt similarly several times over the last couple years in the cub program. I have been looking forward to when my son crosses into a troop, thinking he'll really get a lot out of it and will very likely have more fun. BUT as I'm getting more familiar with what is happening, I'm realizing that it's unlikely to be much different. In fact I'm getting the idea that our CO's troop has even more adult energy than our pack does! I hope I'm wrong.... As it is, my son has fun but it's really sort a luke warm thing for him. I keep trudging along, HOPING that I can in some way make a difference for him and the other boys.

My 2 cents if they were ever to read this for input into the adult and cub uniforms.... it would be a uniform shirt, button down but cut so as to look good while NOT tucked..... sort of like a bowling shirt or a beach/Hawaiian shirt (without the funky patterns of course!) It would eliminate all pins for name tags, service stars, etc.... in favor for something that wouldn't catch on jackets or backpack straps... sewn on, velcro, or??? Otherwise, I really don't have many problems with the current uniforms personally....

ah, troop guide. Must admit that's a new one for me. Thanks! Just looked it up, seems like perhaps the most important position in the troop if you ask me.... based on the meritbadge.org post which was the first hit from google.

I agree with this personally.... & I struggle with the concept of letting the boys define what a uniform is (except for the earlier discussion of a national survey at the boy level to design a better more applicable uniform for the whole) My logic is this..... if it's ok to let the troop decide that they have class B, class C, or class J uniforms.... and letting them define what those mean.... and calling them scout uniforms How is that any different than the scouts coming together and stating that they hereby change some element of the scout law so that it is more applicable to them? Don't get me wrong.... I respect that they strive for patrol or troop uniformity..... but how do you draw the line? Edit: I just wanted to add, I don't mean this post to be argumentative in any way to badwolf or any troops' approach. Just a comment based on my observations and struggles with this whole topic of uniforming.

i was thinking more about my earlier post.... oldscout448, you didn't say what your position is.... ASM I'm assuming.... and the other scouter? There's a twist to consider.... and that is the idea that anything coming from adults should go through the scoutmaster through the youth leaders. I listened to a podcast the other day on scoutmastercg. Clark was making this point, that to avoid mixed signals or mixed info, that everything should really be going through the SM. I'm not so sure that I agree with this idea so absolutely as he laid it out, but it is something to think about.... I still think that based on what you presented, you did absolutely the right thing, as I said in my earlier post..... but in theory I'll acknowledge that it is possible that by doing so you undermined something that the SM was trying to do..... or maybe something the PL was trying to do.... like for example some lesson about making sure they bring their tools. A scout is always prepared after all.

what is a TG?

I know they're not an official thing... but for your guys, what is the class B and the class C? I understand generally that "class B" is considered a unit T-shirt, and some will add that it's won with the field uniform pants, belts, etc.... but C is a new one for me..... C for civilian free for all?

By my thinking, you served to do several things you taught these boys that adults may have ideas and by asking if you could show them, you hinted that it would be ok for them to ask you stuff.... and you showed them a trick, but didn't do the task for them so they practiced it a bit. and now these scouts have a trick up their sleeves for the next time, that they can teach other scouts. & I'll point out that you DID in fact let them fail.... you said you sat back and watched them pile up wood twice only for it to fall over.... I'm no wood badger, so what do I know..... but it seems to me based on what you wrote, which is of course only your side..... your perspective...... but I'd say you did exactly right.

I'm betting the boys would enjoy it more if it were simple and rustic.... not much more than a cabin or picnic shelter..... pot belly stove for heat, etc....

I was just looking at Baloo's Bugle for inspiration for my next pack meeting. There's a little blurb pointing to this blog post http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2014/03/20/this-minnesota-troops-scout-hut-is-a-former-train-depot/ I was thinking about this not too long ago. One of you here mentioned their Scout Hut. I remember seeing a sign in some small town I was travelling through pointing the direction the the scout hut. I didn't have time to swing by it.... But I understand that this used to perhaps be very common, for a community to have a scout hut. Is that right? Our pack seems to be often in a struggle to get room access from our CO (a church that also has a school). Ditto the troop We do have an area in the CO's shed, approx 5LF x maybe 12ft high. Most ministries of the parish have shelf space in there.... just to store our derby track, etc.... and we have a small enclosed trailer parked in the parking lot.... but this idea of a hut I find really cool! A place to call your own a place to hang Opens up all sorts of options for hanging things on the wall, etc...

NSP? I'm guessing "New Scout Patrol".... is that right? seems to me that part of the whole boy led and patrol concept is to have older and more experienced boys leading the younger and less experienced. So you are putting all the new boys together on their own? Is that why there's a need for SPL? Otherwise I agree with Stosh.... SPL seems like an unnecessary position in the structure.... This whole tangent has be flashing back to my days in the troop as a boy. One of the things that... well struck me as "weird" at the time was a casual friend of mine at school..... a boy my same age, who really had equal or maybe even less knowledge than me was put in charge of me for one thing or another.... It wasn't a problem of following so much, as I think a problem of ill prepared leadership. I didn't understand it at the time, since I was getting into scouts at a bit of an older age after laying off from cub scouts...I didn't understand it at the time, but know that I'm studying boy led and patrols I'm realizing what it was all about. At the time to me as a boy, it was a turn off. I think the more logical scenario is the older and more experienced being in the leadership positions.

fire ban reminds me a family camp I took once to a state park where they had a county wide ban. so no camp fires. but you could use a grille as long as it had a lid so I bought a little disposable table top grille at the local grocery, and cooked smores over that. It was comical... the thing was so cheap and rickety that I was afraid it would fall over from a stiff breeze. I put it IN the fire ring for safety. what a joke

I'll list three. 1 & 2 are from my one and only summer camp experience 1) a nightime capture the flag event, scouts start in the dining hall and have to go through the scout reservation by any route possible to the lodge at the other side....without getting caught by the leaders who are out trying to catch them. 2) Exploits on the sound with my friends in the sailboat... and I only remember this because one of the boys got knocked out cold from the boom 3) waking up after a winter storm laid down a very thick layer of freezing rain. Impossible to start a fire so we ate frozen hot dog wieners and packed up.

I'm still a Cub Scouter, so I'm just looking at this from the outside, with an eye to the future.... I'm curious, what sort of nighttime activities do you mean? I have to add this... I was a cub scout as a kid, then we moved so I was out of scouting a while before getting back in for a short time... I only went to summer camp once, but I remember only 2 things about it 1) a nightime capture the flag event, scouts start in the dining hall and have to go through the scout reservation any route possible to the lodge at the other side....without getting caught by the leaders who are out trying to catch them. 2) Exploits on the sound with my friends in the sailboat... and that is only because one of the boys got knocked out cold from the boom

I think it's a great solution....add a little bit of an "old world" look to the uniform... I've been meaning to try this, but when i think about it or need it.... such as a lost woggle..... I can never remember how... BUT I think that the standard cub neckers are too short to do it anyway. Personally, I think the lazy approach to the uniform of making it optional is a BIG mistake. and as I told our council's Field Service Director recently, I think these blasted T-shirts are a real downfall and really serve to hurt scouting and hurt enrolment, etc.... Kind of an unintended consequence as I see it.... There is no scout identity with them. We look like a bunch of church youth groups or school bands on a field trip. and no way to display ranks and such.... which i think is a big factor in why I have never really seen our boys take interest in a friend's patch, or a drive to get the patch that their buddy has, etc.... they receive the new rank, award, or patch, look at it for 3-5 seconds...then shrug their shoulders and look for mom or dad to give it to for holding. That's the end of that. and I do like desertrat77's suggestion that National should ask the boys..... not ask if it should be optional or if it should be done away with, but ask them to design it, clean slate. Encourage a uniform, and encourage certain needs, but really let them have a say in what those needs are and what the design is.... My guess is that it would start with something that is designed to be worn un-tucked..... which would be OK by me!

kinda think this applies http://scoutmastercg.com/scoutmaster-podcast-225-youth-led/

Based on my limited observations, this is spot on. I believe that most adults think the troop is boy run. Part of the issue I think is differing definitions of the term. and then not all adults on the same page.... I was involved in a troop committee for a short time. The committee was discussing which weekend we should do a camping trip and where to.... I suggested gently, that the boys should be deciding when and where.... & I was promptly educated in stronger language than I'll repeat here, that the leadership would not let the boys determine his schedule. I tried to point out that I was thinking it would be for them to work out, deciding when and where they want to go.... then they would need to be responsible for asking the SM or ASM to take them. If none of the ASM's would do it, then they would be out of luck.... I dropped it, figuring I succeeded with a nudge, and since the troop was really only transitioning to boy lead that they need time... I'm still concerned by what I still see, as this is likely where my son will cross over to.... but I'm sure it's a slow transition sometimes.... so I'm hopeful.

That standard canned response that is so prolific in scouting.... if you don't like it, step up and do it better..... while it seems so good on paper in some class, doesn't sound so good in your ear when it's directed at you. Bet it kind of ticked the boys off! I have always felt it kind of snarkey.... as if the person offering the advice isn't helping. But in fact they are. Maybe they aren't in a position yet to step up and run a district event, but they can HELP by offering up some good advice....

I agree with this sentiment.... Even though my son is one of those that rarely wants to read it, I think having a nice book with pictures and such is needed. It'll help things stick into memory for some kids.

and I suspect that many would never return. I know that we have several lost books every year.... just from parents comments about not being able to find them.

hey that's great! Last year, our District changed what they are doing for WEBELOS Akela weekend. My son and I just attended it again a few weeks ago, for it's second year in the new format. Seems like it's very similar to the WEBELOS portion of your event. I like your twist of the Tenderfoot involvement I think.... Anyway, our WEB/Akela weekend is held at the scout reservation. They moved it to April, for the 1st year WEBELOS and are no including the Bears too. Troops are invited to come host both WEBELOS (1st year) and Bear cubs. It's a station round robin, where the scouts are assigned a rotation.... to demonstrations of various stuff put on mostly by Boy Scouts, but a bit by Scoutmasters.... 1st Aid, from 9-9:50, Pioneering from 10: - 10:50, etc.... The idea is that Bears get oriented to what WEBELOS will be all about (really with a heavy twist of an Intro to Boy Scouts) and the WEBELOS get a taste of Scouts, with the added demonstrations at the shooting ranges and a chance to play on the climbing wall. We camped with our Troop, ate with their patrols, etc... Many of our recent crossovers were there, now as Boy Scouts. My son really enjoyed it. Honestly i think his best memory this year was playing Zombie Tag... or some such thing.... with the older boys after dark It's really a good event. My only beef with it is that there is not nearly enough "hands on" with things like fire starting, cooking, etc.... too much sitting and listening.... Seems like your event might be even better!

how much were the books last year?

OK, I'll buy that.... Good Point! a case of my missing the forest for the trees! BUT ... I've often had this opinion + I have heard it from a few other parents during post meeting parking lot discussions too.... so it's not just me. Your counterpoint is valid.... but I still contend that many of the requirements scattered through the current program are geared towards doing stuff with your sons that have already been done many times just in our standard family life.... but I would guess this to not be the case in some poorer &/or broken homes..... so that for boys like my son, the requirements are redundant to the point of being either silly or boring.... so I'm extrapolating a bit from the OP, but I suspect this is the spirit behind some of the questioned short cutting. For me, I make strong effort to follow the book, and try to encourage it from others.... I've had conversations with my son about short cutting and pencil whipping.... I'm proud to say that it wasn't something he wanted to do. But I'll admit there have been a few occasions when we short-cutted a bit, and I made a point to address it with my son too, to see if he thought what we were doing addresses the spirit of the requirement. The example that comes to mind was something about recording a week's worth of meals and snacks. I viewed the spirit of this to be about awareness of what he's eating.... So I think what we did was remembered back for the 3 or so previous days what he ate + today.... so that leaves three days to record. Not a week. and what it really lead to was a discussion about how much junk he has that vs how little good stuff. Which incidentally I believe is something we have done for almost every year in Cub Scouts + countless times he's been taught this stuff in school.... redundant to the point of being silly AND boring. On the flip side, I can remember many times having my son do a certain task that I know that he already knows how to do, just for the sake of doing it under the guise of scouting....

I think Renax is hitting on a disparity that isn't really addressed by the current Cub Scout program..... and I'm guessing is an underlying cause for the OP's question I know that I am not alone in noticing that much of the cub scout program is really intended for the boys that Renax is writing about.... broken families uninvolved parents limited exposure to things.... Boys that need a positive male role model. My son, and at least most if not all of the boys in our pack, are fortunate enough to have parents that work, have some money, and are involved with their kids. Most have been on many family vacations, flown on airlines, etc... So these requirements to say, visit an airport (perhaps with an exception of any behind the scenes exposure), are really a bit redundant for most of these boys.