blw2

interesting! well, we've tried the t-shirt thing, & that aint workin'...... so it must be something else.....

flipped on the TV this morning. Whatever random channel it was on, there was one of those magazine type shows on doing a peace about some RC car outfit doing a thing with Boys and Girls club. My first thought was the T-shirts. They could have been a cub scout pack or gs troop for all I could tell, before reading the words on the shirts! Then it hit me, boys and girls! What I've always wished we had formally in Cub Scouts..... I always had the idea that this Boys and Girls club was for underprivileged kids in poor areas, but these kids didn't strike me as underprivileged and it wasn't an activity poor kids could afford to do... I was thinking that much of the cub scout program, at least the old one, are centered around giving kids experience.... many of which seem to better apply to underprivileged kids (we're doing things that our kids being more affluent have already been exposed to many times....). SO, my 3rd thought is a question ..... is the Boys and Girls club competition for scouts?

peridochas' quoted chapter and verse is of course valid. OK, here's a twist..... Why are you wanting to do it den only anyway? by the way... are you the Tiger Leader? ok, so coordinate with your cubmaster and invite the pack. bingo. pack Campout! Even if the rest of them don't sign up, well, so the pack tried.... Regarding the uniform, I certainly would not discourage uniform wear if it were me.... but we never have anyone show in uniform except me and my son anyway, but thats another story.... I would however make it clear that this is a family camp and that parents are responsible for their own kids. If you're not the leader, where does your Den Leader and pack stand on this whole thing? Are you simply a ringleader of some active parents that are wanting more than your pack is giving? If that's the case, I have an Adult application for you!

I was just looking at the bryan on scouting page re. service stars to refresh my memory about which color is which.... and it hit me. I thought about this thread! They posted what looks to be an excerpt from the uniform inspection sheet, I noticed that the OVAL version of the WEBELOS badge is shaped and placed to resemble a Boy Scout rank patch. As a Cub Scouter, I haven't dwelled much on this to date..... I can almost buy an argument, if one were made, that the intention was for this to crossover as an early rank badge in scouts, maybe to differentiate between a WEBELOS scout who has already studied things like the motto, promise, etc..., and a new and "green" scout that knows nothing. I don't have handbooks handy. Is it written anywhere officially in the Uniform guide or elsewhere, that the oval WEB badge should be removed and not considered an entry level rank to be replaced by the Scout badge or maybe even Tenderfoot when earned? Why else would national even have this oval badge option, and not just have the diamond Cub Scout version?

It strikes me that these ideas regarding a senior and junior aren't the case here, since the positions are both vacant. No DE = no senior person..... unless they plan to hire and old guy.

I'll also add this... technically, at least one leader is required to be BALOO certified for a pack to camp. When I took BALOO, it was basically a joke. Good maybe for someone that had never camped before, but otherwise the only good was a review of the BSA rules that you would need to know. If it were me, I would plan the camp. IF you can find BALOO offered in your area and IF one or more of your registered leaders can attend, great.... but I personally wouldn't sweat it. I would encourage you and your leaders to take the online training offerings that might apply, just so that you are on the same page as BSA Safe Swim Defense if you're planning to swim & Weather Hazards & leaders should have the YPT (maybe even encourage parents to sit through it) But I wouldn't sweat any of it. Call it family camping and just go. Every scout and sibling would have a responsible parent, kids sleep only with parents, and you are all just hanging out together..... just like two or more families that are friends camping together OH, do it before June 1 if you're working on Sports and Academic Belt Loops... they are going away.... or at least buy the awards....

My dad had or probably still has a couple of old Coast Guard cots that were being "surveyed". They look just like those Byer cots in RememberShiff's link. Probably made by Byer..... I slept on one a bunch as a teen, when we'd have company, or occasionally camping. The thing I remember most about it was that the canvas was so tight it was like sleeping on a sheet of plywood. When I tent camp, I'm on a good thermarest self inflating mattress... a trailpro. I've slept on concrete floors on that thing. Not as comfortable as my home bed, but not bad.....

I just searched google for some pictures to illustrate what I would judge camping vs not. Can't figure out how to upload them.... this one, even though it's minimally furnished, I would not call camping even for cub scouts.... http://www.parkrec.nd.gov/parks/blsp/images/blsp_cabin_interior.jpg It has electricity, and modern ammenities This one, depending on where it's located, I probably would.... but maybe, not depending on what was trying to be accomplished. Assuming it's not in someone's yard, out in the woods or a camp ground, No electricity, no running water etc..... I assume that it has four walls but I don't see it as "much" different than camping in a tent you didn't pitch yourself. http://wanake.typepad.com/.a/6a0120a5a1b416970b017ee8be9fcd970d-pi This one? http://netdna.tinyhouseblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/AT-shelter-Ottawa.jpg or this one http://thefuzzymonkey.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/AT-2007-Highlight-234.jpg Why not??? even if you put a door on it. there's no furniture, no amenities at all, except for shelter and a windbreak.....

that was exactly my thought when they announced it! The company I work for has over the last couple years started to have split territory sales managers. In name it sounds like they split the territory with the line like you suggest, but it's really more of a shared territory arrangement. From my perspective it causes more problems. You don't know who to call and more things get dropped between the cracks..... Our district is very small in land area, but is apparently the largest in council in terms of head count. They can't find and hold one DE, so I'm not holding my breath that I'll see how it pans out. I think there have been 4 or 5 DE's plus some long holes with the position vacant since I got back into Scouting with my then Tiger Cub back 3-1/2 years ago.

does a tent pitched in the backyard qualify? .... what if that backyard is in the country, and you're 200 yards from the house....? or in the woods on the church's back lot, 100 yards from the parking lot? If you are rich, and accustomed to fancy $300/night hotels, does a Holiday Inn Express count? My take, although not an "officially BSA" answer, is this: - take an honest assessment of the spirit, First - then, unless otherwise defined, I might consider calling it camping when in a simple very basic cabin with no power, no running water, not furnished like a house, etc... & if it were in the woods, not a house or attached or near to a house like a man cave cabin.... etc... - but a cabin with real furniture and amenities, is to some folks a house so I would not call it camping - nor would I call bunks at a Navy base camping.... that sounds more like a dorm or hostel - & I certainly wouldn't call a HI Express camping, no matter how rich you are....

you know, now that you mention it... you're right. It does require way too much adult effort. Seems like almost everything is like pulling teeth... at least in my pack. Should be easier than this.....

did you ever figure out what he meant by that question though?

In the early days, cubbies started at 9 years old... so 4th grade, or maybe 3rd.

I guess not in keeping with the ideas about retention, but what I was getting at was that the WEBELOS would finish out the year in either May, or mid summer.... then start with thge troop in the fall, just like other cubs start with their new dens in the fall. Basically they wouldn't necessarily be eligble for summer camp that first year. Personally I don't think tahts so wrong to give the boy a year to get to know the troop, let the parents become more comfortable with the troop leaders, and let the troop leaders get to know the boy and the parents, so they know what they are dealing with!

You're right, 2nd year WEBELOS does sort of seem like killing time as it is now.... This thread has me wondering now, in the new program, is the AOL "rank" planned out to take a full year to complete, or more targeted for 5-6 months completion for a Feb crossover like most units seem to do? Honestly, I think the program would be better if they leaned back to how it used to be with older starting ages. Then even doing away with this silly half year thing too, really makes sense if you think about it..... It all seems a rush..... rush the boys in to cubs too early, then rush the boys into the troop so that can go to summer camp earlier. What would be wrong with letting the boys finish out a cub year.... then crossing the boys into the troop in the fall, so that they finish a school season in the troop before summer camp. Just follow the school year like the rest of the world??? Maybe they should just continue the rushing and pushing them along trend and do away with 2nd year WEBS and let the boys cross in the spring of their 5th grade year.....No matter, just rambling about stuff way out of my control. But anyway, good point about the "sitting around killing time".

your #1 is actually the best answer I think I've heard yet! Can't believe I didn't think of that..... but we pay for the books through pack dues. Historically though, 2nd year webs pay less since they don't have new books and the don't on average earn as many awards and such in their short year.... regardless, this makes sense! #2, I was just reading this AM that they have opened up a new option so that pins already earned can be sued towards the new program, so I'm guessing this point is no longer an issue. #3, so it'll be harder to get AOL? I wasn't getting that.....

I've seen discussions here about districts merging, but this one is new for me... The other night at our Round Table, a Director from council was filling in for the Field Director, who is standing i for the empty DE spot..... Anyway, he mentioned that since our district is so large that they are actually looking to hire two DE's for the district. Anyone ever experienced it? Do you think he's really saying without saying it, that they are planning to split the district? Not that ANY of it really matters to me, since I really don't get much support for any of them in running the program, just curious.... and I guess a little hopeful that with a reorganization, I would see some help.

So, I'm trying to gauge if current 1st year WEBELOS have made a decision as to which program you'll be running next year... the new one or the old one. I'm CM, with my son in this den. I'm trying to advise my son's DL, but he's not taking it serious enough so far to look into it for himself so far. Seems like he's thinking to just take the lazy way out and just keep on with the old program. I'm thinking that MAYBE that's the best approach, BUT maybe its not??? I'm somewhat familiar with it, having attended a U of Scouting course on it, I've read most of what I can find online, and watched the orientation video. a pro/con thing..... On one hand, It seems like it would be better to do new IF a new boy joins... but that's an IF and not helpful to the existing boys in and of itself.... On the other, Even though this may not be the case, AOL is considered by most of the folks in our pack to be the "Highest Award in Cub Scouting". It strikes me that this "high" status is very much diminished with the new program..... being much easier to get & all.... Pretty much a given. So maybe better to let my son's den to be the last of the ones to get the BIG Arrow of Light.... and then there's the idea that the new program looks like it might promise to be more fun for the boys and easier for the leaders BUT, it must surely must be more easy to just not even learn the new program & just keep on with it.... SO, I'm wonder what others are planning at this point. Most folks around here at round table etc. are reserving comment.... I get that, but which way are you leaning?

You are no doubt correct, but I'm sure I read that bit someplace about the T-Shirt along with pants, belt, hat, etc.... being the activity uniform. Maybe it was my son's handbook.... maybe it was something un-official and I mistook it.... Regardless, i prefer your thinking about the uniform. When camping, I'll normally only come out of the field shirt in the camp site in the evenings, etc... Otherwise, I try to lead it by quiet example....

no kidding!

How about your oldest son taking the job, with you backing him up unofficially if he needs help? I have mixed feelings about folks without skin in the game (a child involved in the unit) I really think it could be a good thing in a lot of ways. It gives a steadiness.... and it removes some of the emotion sometimes. but in my limited experience (our CC), and me as CC of our Troop.... it's hard to have a strong drive and passion sometimes too.... I think a lot of it depends on YOU

The law of entropy is the lack of order or predictability; gradual decline into disorder. It's a natural order of a lot of things it's what people work to prevent, or at least delay..... Just as most folks mow and trim their yards week after week, it takes constant vigil to keep in check. IMO, this is a case of traditional usage, vs a more "liberal" approach Doesn't mean that either approach is wrong, exactly..... but one might argue that the chapter and verse quoted above is simply entropy at work..... the BSA yielding to popular opinion.... Just as the formality of dressing "up" for airline flights has yielded to any old thing that you slept in last night..... so is scouting and the BSA! The topic of discussion is lack of visibility, and while Sentinel947 is correct to follow what the BSA has written, Stosh is absolutely correct that the uniform as intended, IS A primary visibility tool, and a good one at that.... and many of us work harder at making excuses than to use that tool. and one more comment Sentinal wrote: ""Class B" is not an official BSA term, but has been in use in the BSA vernacular that I don't think I committed a deadly sin by using said term in it's appropriate context." Why not call it by it's official BSA name, the Activity Uniform? Oh, entropy at work again.... and additionally, I guess for approx 99.9% of the time, it's not worn as the true activity uniform anyway since it's to be worn with uniform pants, etc....

got any pictures of your troop to share?

you know, I've been thinking. for the first couple years, I even spoon fed the info to the parents of the boys receiving the religious medal. I wrote up a little half page or so thing, with pictures, and included it with the knot patches... and emailed it out as well..... most of the boys still didn't have it even close..... I was going to post two pictures, and ask, which one looks better on a trail one with scouts in mismatched garb.... and one in uniform..... but I couldn't find one with scouts in BSA uniform that wasn't staged! I know I've seen them, liken scouts on a mountaintop in uniform.... just couldn't find one.