blw2

I like the one shared committee/unit idea Not so sure about the beavers thing though Even though it's different, it would almost certainly be "similar" in at least some ways Just as the similarities abound in the old system between tiger, wolf, bear, and WEB it just gets old. Pretty sure we talked about a lot of the same stuff.... yeah, maybe a little more advanced each year, but still it gets BORING to the boys. And I'm already seeing that my son will be bored with the early stuff in scouts since he's already done it in Bears and WEBELOS.... I'm almost tempted to change my earlier comment about waiting to start my son Bear or 1st year WEB... to waiting until he can join a troop. But I do recognize that friends are what will hold him in scouting, and if those bonds aren't formed, they may not by the time he's 10 or 11. He'd prefer to hang with his non scout friends from earlier.... So Bear is probably about right if you ask me. SO I would like to see your one committee approach skip the beavers cubs starts round about 3rd or 4th grade as in your proposal... focusing on a mix of family camping stuff, pinewood derby and the like, and only a little intro to Boy Scouts. Yep, I think it wold be solid

No question there. My involvement is precisely why my son has fun with it. Good daddy time. I see it with the parents that sit in the back on their phones..... the kids just don't get the same experience.... Yep, no program loss at all. Well maybe now with the new one a bit, I'm not sure..... but Safe bet it wouldn't be a big deal. Also agreed about the friends.....I guess my perspective is a bit different, since we went with the pack at our church, while son goes to a local government school. So a great chunk of the boys are from the parish school, a few from other schools in the area, and only a couple from son's school. So the pack at school might have been a better choice for us....

I can't comment too much on the new outlines.... only started my initial reviews before I was "displaced". What I saw makes me agree with SS Scout.... they're an outline. Much better in my opinion that the old ones.... short, sweet, and easy to read. Honestly though, I think this concept may have been downplayed on purpose with the new program.... with the idea to stay on point with the subject at hand.... having the dens work together on the Adventures.... all while keeping the meetings short. So, I think the intent might be for less unrelated games and activity that serves no purpose than a good time. I made a big part of my effort as CM to get the boys up doing something at every meeting. I still found that we ended up with too much sitting and talking.... so it does take effort and I think also teamwork would have helped. For example, i didn't have an Assistant to lean on, to for example lead something while I was prepping something else.... I looked to Baloo's Bugle every month, sometimes found useful ideas I tried to keep ideas of easy things in my back pocket for times when den's didn't comply with my wishes to have a skit or activity ready. There are tons of things you can do with baloons.... relay races, games, and the like. Pinterest is full of ideas. Guest speakers, especially if there is a budget to spend since some come with a fee now.... If I were still doing the job, i would still plan in some games or activities..... unless the required adventure work might count.

What sort of bugle is he using? What sort of mouthpiece? I played trumpet as a kid for 7 years, and now my son started beginner band at school last year. I have been practicing with him, and even bought myself a second horn to do it. I say this only to mention that while I am not at all a bugler, I know a little something about it. I suggest that it "might", just maybe be a bad instrument or bad mouthpiece. Some are just toys. I have tried to blow a few bugles that had trash mouthpieces, and couldn't play a note! Mouthpieces come in many sizes and shapes, each suited for a different thing. A young embouchure just wouldn't be able to handle some. It might be worth a trip to the local music store, where he might see if some trumpet or cornet mouthpieces might fit the lead pipe.... and that he could try. Might make a difference.

It's not just the parents bailing. Likely factor in some cases, but it's also the boys

I couldn't agree more, Fred. My pack is a perfect case history model for very a similar twist on your theme. But it's the former leaders, not just a standard "dad" In my situation, the core group of the burned out second generation leaders from before is now in my son's den with their younger son's. They have burnt out, stepped away or at least disengaged, and in one case formally "resigned" from the committee. They have continued with their older sons to the troop They step down, and even back away a good bit, But they can't let go. They always needle back in at inopportune times. they think they know it all, but don't recognize that folks like me have come along with lots of energy to research and do know a bit too. They have no patience to even understand, for example that there is now a new cub program. they no longer want to play within the system, with District, etc.... They all admit troop life is more fun as a scouter, and they obviously have no energy or passion left for cubs..... but they can't let it go. Few new parents are bold enough to pickup the torch. But when do, but then they get in the way, interfere, etc.... basically propagating a lot of those "that's the way it's always been done"..... which in my case, and others.... has served to do nothing but squash my energy. AND, I have watched a similar reaction from the boys too. the old guard keeps singing from the same hymnal doing the same old stale things that they are bored with, which projects a boring program, which the boys get bored with, and then the boys without active parents leave. Even some with active parents. And looking to the future, these same parents will undoubtedly be doing the same at the troop level in very short order. Had I known what I know now 1) I would have waited for maybe wolf or more likely either bear or the 1st WEBELOS year to get my son started 2) and I would have looked for a pack with fresh leaders, that were not on track to hang on through death and misery.... even though that would have meant going outside of my church.

I'd like to see things like this moved to either sewn on, or maybe better some sort of woggle device or epaulet device..... somthing that doesn't dangle, won't snag, doesn't stick or injure, won't fall off..... you know, something that would be suitable for a real "Field Uniform" the knots fit my idea of something useful.... in the way that they are worn anyway....

I wore them as a cub back in the 1970's I like the idea of them A couple years ago I made a little effort to get them into our pack. I started wearing them, and awarded them to the boys and leaders. Thinking bling was good, trying to encourage uniform wear, etc... I saw very few folks (boys or leaders) wearing them. I never had a boy or anyone else asked what they mean. I ended up losing one or two.... backpack straps hang on them. Jackets and sweaters hang on them. Finally i gave up and didn't replace them. but maybe I'll pick up replacements when I head over to the scout shop to get my son's new pants. Now that I'm out of a job, I need some bling! Re the magnet idea.... I ordered an official name tag through the scout shop. they ended up sending a pinned one, so I re-ordered. In short order the thing was lost. I think it came off with a jacket or something & i never knew it. This was maybe 3 years ago. just about a month ago, i found it under the seat in my truck.... sadly, the backer plate was likely tossed after I couldn't find it. I've been wearing the pinned nametag ever since.... still not lost. (knock on wood)

I haven't been checking in for a while. After a step back....I figure its about time to try to re-energize about scouting. Looks like not much new happening on the forum. Dug up this old thread to get perspective and re-read the comments with a cooler mind. I still feel deflated. I had so much positive energy about scouting, and was really looking forward to working with my son's troop in some way. I just don't know if I'll ever get the energy back. My son's DL asked me if I would be co-DL, since he's feeling the burn out. No such thing, but I told him maybe Assistant DL during the 2nd year of Webelos.... or maybe I'll just maintain registration as Committee Member, but function as an involved parent and support and help him that way.

I liked how they all had very new and clean uniform vests, with patches sewn to military precision... The most uniform I've seen a group of scouts in a long while Even the tents were all new and matching, and set up with the use of a surveyor's transit! Talk about a staged photo opp! BUT what a great opportunity for those chosen few girls!

sure, but how would you thread that onto a necker?

Sounds like a well run show, but what sort of bead do you put on a necker?

I agree with the point about "quality" of training.... I have taken more first aid classes than I could ever count, done a fair bit of side reading on the subject too.... but I really don't feel overly confident or qualified. Not much of it was truly hands-on..... Oh, we might take a few minutes to mock through how you might wrap an ankle or tie a splint or whatever.... but it's always just half hearted efforts in the interest of speeding the class along. Not nearly enough good hands on under the guidance of a true non-power-point-reading expert. But again, cost and time make all this prohibitive.... The best first aid class I ever took was a "community 1st aid and CPR" class I took in preperation for my divemaster and assistant instructor cert. The teacher was an off duty paramedic. He spent a lot of time telling war stories in detail..... not exactly hands on, but it gave a sense of realism through the 1st hand experience.

great point @@qwazse, I guess I had that in the back of my mind all along... that every job or help isn't in the form of a wearing the uniform. My thinking at the cub level is that everyone should be encouraged and feel welcome to help....maybe even required to help...... just as you described. But My thinking on the thread was more about how to best start some of those "because it's always been done" habits or traditions for the uniformed jobs, so that teh expectations are there for parents to look forward too... and that would help manage burnout.... If it's always a Bear parent talking Assistant CM for example, grooming for CM the following year.... then the Wolf parents sorta know they need to let the right candidate float to the top in their group..... Sadly I think I lost the effort in my group, with the recent coup and the "old guard" taking it back over for the time being..... I think the future folks in my unit be stuck with uncertain futures saddled with the struggle to figure out whos going to do the job, burn-out, etc.... and saddled with the B&Gs that go on all day (that should be a whole other tread.... I could write a few thoughts on that one based on my experiences!) I'm just hopeful that this thread will get some wheels turning and help others. It has helped me to develop the idea a bit more, not fully I think, but it does seem like a nice potential ideal to have as a rule of thumb, and I'll be sure to put a bug in the ear of the next leaders, when the old guard finally let go of the unit and move on completely.

yes, I have tried to be very sensitive about the Dls' workloads. I really tried to encourage parents to become an ADL for their son's leader..... And I tried really hard to not put any more onto them except two things.... rolling each den through leading the flags and opening prayer and having a skit or some other presentation for "den time at the pack meetings" I've seen past and present Cubmasters dump a lot on them.... so much that if I were in their shoes I'd sit on my hands......or take a hike. My pack has had a tradition since before my time that a parent from the 1st year WEBELOS den chairs the derby, and a parent form the 2nd year WEB den chairs the B&G...... which they have always perverted into an overdone 2nd year WEB AOL/graduation/crossover celebration I think the B&G would be better served by not being the 2nd year WEB parents doing it for that reason, but other than that it works. So far it hasn't fallen on our DL's as non-registered parents have stepped up

Now you've got me thinking @@Anita1216, sounds like your round tables have been more .... well round than ours. more discussion topic oriented. Ours are a bit more regurgitation of info when you boil it down. I think she does a great job with it though, for what it is. Some info to present.... some cub specific announcements, dates, etc... an example of an opening meeting ideas sometimes a short presentation of something.... such as places to take you pack camping, to be followed by a short open floor discussion of additional ideas... We have plenty of opportunity to ask questions, but it's much more a presentation I guess with good reason though, since I'm having trouble imagining a purely open discussion being all that interesting.... some obscure topic is chosen, that maybe I could care less about it..... or maybe that would have been helpful to me 2 months ago, but not so much now.... the presentation format lets the leaders share whats current and now....

good thread I think.... thanks guys

One more comment re your desire to bring more folks out.... I'm the only one from our pack that has attended at least somewhat regularly.... out of the recent past and current leaders I have noticed that some of our retired leaders that have moved on to troop leadership, now attend RT more. Can't say for sure, but that seems the case for other units as well I don't really know why that is..... but it seems from my experience that a majority of cub scouters don't have the energy level for it, and get burned out so quickly because cubs takes a lot out of them.

I can't really advise on topics too much but my advice keep it short, keep it fun. We're adults and not the boys, but we still want to have fun! I attend ours when I can, which isn't every month due to my wife's work schedule mostly, but also it was dependant on my time commitment to the pack.... some weeks it was just too much. Oh, one more thing.... noticing that our RT Cub chair has recently recruited a great team of folks helping her.... I suggest you do that too.... use those same people that always show up. She always pulls together an opening skit or ceremony as an example for us to use the next month.... using attendees in place of the boys.... It seems the general outline here is planning for the following month's pack meeting and pack activities so the Feb RT was for the March Core Value and March meeting plans.... This month they focused more on Summertime awards, planning and dates for popcorn and sign ups in August / Sept, etc.... I find that our RT chair is very positive and high energy. She comes at it with a smile and high energy....the attitude that we should be doing at our meetings. Personally, I find that she does re-energize me to have a little more positive attitude and to dig down and get some more to give in planning and such.... Oh, & i have to imagine that the BSA has some training or guidelines that map all of this out....

that's exactly why I didn't really pursue it..... I realize that there's a bigger picture, and it makes sense from some perspective.... even if it's historic..... and that it must be working, so it just becomes an observation....nothing more. But my bigger picture reason to even notice the comment was that I'm always just trying to get a read.... from the outside.... of how well they are progressing through their desired transition to boy led.

@@pargolf44067, thanks for the clarification!

that seems logical to me @@Stosh... let the boys drive it I was talking to our CO's SM a while back about collecting dues and such. I really have no idea how it came up, but it was something about how the adult committee was involved. He said something about the fact that the boys were in their POR for such a short time due to the set election frequency, that the collections cycle wouldn't work.... struck me a odd on several levels, adult involvement where a boy would do.... got the feeling that adults set the election frequency, but i could have been wrong on that but I let it go at the time and didn't ask further....

I'm curious... is there a set frequency to how often the boys hold their elections?

"Start, Stop, Continue" method?

Some great points @@Stosh and @@Eagledad. There are a lot of interesting dynamics in this point. Some people can't let go, some love scouting but don't do it well, others like you said like to be looked up to, or like to lead, or just want to do the minimum and don't really care about scouting.... I've considered that this makes this whole thing of limited tenure complicated. Some folks may just be getting on a roll at the end of their time, some may have the energy to go beyond the time affectively, etc.... I couldn't agree more, at least on your time point.... It is too long. Boys get burned out, leaders get burned out.... even the parents taht do nothing get burned out. 20 months is an interesting statistic. I think I was good for a bit more.... maybe 30-36, but I'd say based on my limited experience that it's pretty right-on the mark as an average! This is exactly where I was going with my question.... so did you actually do this? How did or do you handle the other Den leaders? Take turns from among the den itself? mapping out the example/guideline gets tricky, especially for those with more than one son.... but then I guess whatever it is would just be a guideline.... My thinking Cubmaster comes from a 1st year WEB parent (So as to have been around for a while observing) Assistant CM comes from a Bear parent The retired CM becomes a Committee Member for the 2nd year WEBS that makes 2-1/2 years for that person... just about right then.... I like your idea of a retired Bear leader taking the Tigers so, A parent would be Den leader for their son's Wolf and Bear years then would become the Tiger Leader for his 3rd year of tenure. My opinion is that instead of the whole year, just for the first couple of months.... Then another den parent would be Den Leader for the 1-1/2 WEB years.... perhaps after serving duty as some other committee position or better yet an Assistant to the DL. CC could be handled in parallel with the CM scheme The other positions could be more random, but with the general idea of no more than 2-1/2 to 3 years.... I am liking the logic.... And I know what many of you would be thinking..... for me this is just a campfire discussion.... I know there are way too many variables for it to ever really work "as written"