blw2

This thread has me thinking If I can roll it smoothly into the next committee meeting, i think I'm going to somehow suggest to the committee and ask the SM what he thinks about the idea that maybe we adults should be going through the SM to the SPL instead of working directly with scouts so much, and at some point I also want to suggest instead of making so many announcements ourselves, that we should be passing the info to the scout leadership that way, and let them figure out how to disseminate it... They all have said many times, and the scouts have said that they want this, so it's not a new concept... but maybe a suggestion at a meeting might spur it along a bit....

I've tried to "suggest" this sort of approach several times already.... as when I had something I needed to give to a scout, or request, or whatever.... I've asked to the SM (or ASM if he's not around) if he could give this (or ask, or tell) the SPL to do XYZ. Or suggested to other adults when they have started something or need something, that they could ask the SM or SPL to round up some scouts to do it..... Without fail, I feel like they think I'm a bit weird, they either go ahead and do it themselves or they just go straight to a scout rather than through the leadership.... Once I had a Den Chief handbook that I was going to donate to the troop library. The SM and SPL were together when I did this... i think I asked the SM if I could give this to his SPL.... which was nodded, then when i gave it to the SPL saying something like "I have this for your Librarian, a donation"... I sensed that he thought it was weird too.

What I had in mind... what I was getting at by negative is down talking about the troop/leader/etc... so as to model bad behaviour (complaining, gossiping and talking behind someone's back, and so on) and firmly planting a negative idea into the boy's head that might lead to him become disenchanted with the troop, or with scouts in general, or to think badly about a leader.... Now different story if the situation is truly causing real harm that's one thing, but for the average adult that can't let go it's better to somehow spin it positively, to help him see opportunities, or maybe to spark ideas on how he might work through or around the issue...

I don't disagree with any of this regarding the lofty bling goals. It does seem rather silly to me.... but what it seems like to me just does not matter so I was thinking along the lines of qwazse as I was catching up on this discussion.... IMO, Krampus and others are correct in trying to mentor the scout towards giving back, forgetting the bling as the primary goal, etc.... basically getting the young man's head screwed on straight.... but hey, if he also wants to be an over acheiver don't be so hard on the guy. nothing wrong with that... imo

Yes Sentinel, thos Osprey's do look nice. Thanks for the point out to that model. One of these days I might consider an upgrade. Not doing any backpacking any time soon, but I have been trying to slowly cut down my kit.... I think once I get it a little better, i might go on the hunt for a new lighter pack

Oh sure, no doubt. In my case when i wrote about shopping is was as he was finishing his 2nd year of WEBELOS Anyway, of course he that wasn't the whole of what he was writing... but it is a valid point. Very few programs are perfect. That was the context more or less as I recall. That as long as the scouter is trying, and not doing harm, that a boy will get at least something out of scouting. as in scouting even if less than perfect, is still better than not doing scouting & I take it to mean that by harm, he meant something like setting bad examples morally, teaching in complete opposition to the scout law, and such as that... If I can come across that quote, I'll try to remember to come back here and reference it properly. Oh, and Stosh... I agree with you about a boy making the change... and if I'm reading you correctly, I more or less have tried to plant that seed in my son. I've had a few casual conversations with him about this stuff, trying to plant the seed in a positive way. I think it's a fine line though.... if not careful, one could tarnish a boys opinion about scouting or about the troop if one were to focus so much on negative stuff.

I have considered several times looking for an external frame. I like that they hold the pack away form the body for better cooling air flow. Just doesn't seem to be all that many choices with them now days.... but for folks like you and me we're not looking to hike the full length of the appalachian trail anytime soon... so we really don't need that perfect rig

yeah, of course a signed collectable is a whole other consideration... But I kinda think that points to the whole point in the idea of patrol neckers as opposed to troop. Is he a member of that patrol, or the troop? Which one trumps? Now I can certainly see the advantage of being able to spot your scouts from afar at a district campout But if you're trying to look for ways to foster the patrol method, patrol spirit, etc.... having a patrol specific necker is certainly an approach!

As a new treasurer, I have given this security thing some thought. I have fairly strong passwords for my online banking and such, but with so many signers.... and over time signers on accounts coming and going... it seems like it could get easily out of control. i really don't like having so many fingers in the pot.... but that's the way it is... hummm...I think I'll see about setting up some alerts of some sort.

Based on what I can tell, your experience is more or less the rule, and not the exception. My troop is very similar in that the adults do a lot of the doing.... I'd say our SM probably has a better vision though. Regardless, I went through this same question as my son was "shopping" troops a few months back. I really want to help him to have the "best" scouting experience.... I mean get the most out of scouting that is possible for him to get. By my thinking that mostly comes from the patrol method. So I was getting frustrated...knowing it is not and should not be my decision, but I was frustrated because I couldn't really show my son a "real" patrol method troop.... they just don't seem to exist in our neighborhood. In the end I came around to realizing something. As long as the adult scouters are doing no harm, the scouts are getting something out of the program. It may not be the all and everything, but something. It was something I read in one of BP's books. i think it was Aids to Scoutmastership that made me realize this. So, no harm + fun = ok, good enough And it is frustrating to not be in one of those key and trusted positions to really drive a quick change About the only thing we can do is do the best we can do in our job, and be a "cooperative volunteer" you might want to have a listen to this http://scoutmastercg.com/podcast-294-cooperative-volunteering/ So what I'm doing is to do my best to help the SM and his vision, not mine. Hoping to gain more and more trust, learn what actually IS working with his program, and while doing my job, trying to lead by example just a bit in looking for ways to actually let the boys lead, regarding tasks that i am responsible for (treasurer in my case)

I'm late jumping in here.... but the earlier discussions about checking in with the older scouts to re-energize them I'm reminded of the story in Clarke Green's book So Far So Good, where he let the scouts choose what they wanted to do...gave them the responsibility AND the authority to make it happen. Could it be that they are drifting just because they have outgrown the adult planned stuff? Maybe they would be more interested in it if they could truly run the program. And if they are good scouts, they would probably consider the younger scouts too and help them along. Win Win

yep, I'd guess that it's a small grain in the big picture, lumped in with everything else that reduces FUN... but it's in there... because my guess is the overlying big reason a majority leave is "not having FUN"

hey lots of great suggestions already borrowing really makes a lot of sense, because a big pack can be expensive .... (and keep in mind I'm not a heavily experienced backpacker, have only done it a bit, want to do more because that is what I consider "real" camping) my suggestions 1st - get your hands on "The Ultimate Hiker's Gear Guide" by Andrew Skurka and give it a good read. He's an ultimate ultra lighter, but it gives lots to think about even if that is not your goal.... I tend to be a heavy packer but I realize that this is... well... kinda stupid really, to do... probably a good idea to buy a pack that's a bit on the smaller size to help keep you in check... http://andrewskurka.com I ordered a copy from amazon 2nd - even though it's not the normal recommendation form most backpackers, i would go for a back opening pack as opposed to a top opening. The zipper adds a bit of weight, but honestly that's fairly negligible in my opinion, until a person starts to get very serious... and it's a bit more of a leak potential and failure point, but no more that I'm using it I would really like to have the accessibility the back opening models give. As a reference point - I bought a Teton sports 4000 pack from amazon several years ago before I got into boy scouting again... based on price mainly. Of course wasn't able to try it on, but figured it would be good enough for my needs... Sometimes i regret the decision because of the top opening style, and it's a bit heavy, but it's ok Interesting thing, I noticed Clarke Green recommends it over at scoutmastercg.com http://scoutmastercg.com/gear-guide-scouts-backpacks/

I agree, I think I would submit for all that are registered BSA I also agree that they likely may not want the award, especially given the outcome but honestly I think an award is just that, not something you apply for yourself.... So I wouldn't tell them you're doing it, except I believe that they need to sign the application or give a statement or something.... if I'm remembering correctly. If they refuse to sign.... so be it If the council or other powers that are in charge of reviewing the form reject it because of their medical degrees, that's up to them.... not you. Just my opinion

I have a 4,170 acre neighborhood being developed just down the road from my house to the South and a 13,323 acre neighborhood being developed to the East another 2,000 acre nearby and a 1,500 acre on just breaking ground some of these have their own schools, shopping districts, etc... this is probably out of the context of this thread's intent, but neighborhood/town/community... where's the line?

"That's what a BOR is for - it's more to review the Troop and a Scout's experiences with it, than it is to review the Scout." ​that was my understanding of it.... ​it's clearly not a retest, so I don't understand why a board's opinion of scout spirit, or anything else really matters.... unless there's a signature missing, or some clear miss.... I get that. Guess I need to get my hands on a guide to advancement and read it for myself.

gotta say I like the logic in that approach.

nah... there's a risk of eye damage

stosh wrote The PL's take a quick "uniform inspection" before flags and if all the boys have their neckers they all wear neckers. If one boy forgot, they don't wear them...for the flags. reminds me of the movie "Heartbreak Ridge"

"PL's can sign off on ST2F rank advancement, period." is that written someplace? I have been wondering what the ultimate written rule is on that topic.... not troop traditions, but the bottom line rule... if PL signing off up to 1st class.... then who has the authority to sign off on requirements for star, life, eagle?

welcome!

my 2 cents... I've gotta say I agree with Sentinel's earlier post. depending on the situation, I'd count it, as service to the HOA isn't the neighborhood a community? I have some neighborhoods around me that are as big as some small towns.... I agree with others.... depends on the situation (public neighborhood space vs private yard for example), but generally I would view it as service to the HOA.... which wouldn't be so different than service to say a museum or a small town's city square park.

related side question... well then, what CAN a BOR fail a scout on during the review? I think this is related, in the sense that moving forward, this committee needs to know what they CAN do, or what the are supposed to be doing....

My gut tells me that your son is more like the typical scout than you might think. Trying to remember way back, I want to say that I had a similar opinion of ceremony as a kid. It was a silly thing then.... and honestly still is to me. I'm talking scripted ceremonies full of fluff, candles, etc.... Just taking it seriously, gives it more importance in my thinking. Don't throw out the patch in a baggie, but instead a simple few words, come to the front, pause for a firm handshake and perhaps a photo (not one of those shake hands and sit back down before the dust settles on your chair). Just a solemn and sincere recognition is better than some trumped up thing in my thinking. But that's just me.... I wonder if your son would agree. just a question..... but is the need for more preparation your perception as an adult, based on the way YOU & I think the meeting ought to run.... or do they see the need for it?