T2Eagle

What about corporations, aren't they people now too. Is it wrong to put up a Google logo? How about Target?

There is no easy answer to this, but I have found some approaches work better than others. If you stand up at a parent meeting and say "we need volunteers to go camping" everyone hopes someone else will volunteer. If you walk up and say "Joe, can you go with us to xyz state park 3 weeks from now, and if you can't we probably can't go" it is much harder for Joe to say no.

A couple of more thoughts on this. Terrible an idea as it is, there is a small bright side to extorting money this way rather than in some of the other ways council does it. Using this method your shakedown payment is at least tax deductible. Think of all the little profit payments built in to other parts of the program: like training and camp fees. What size involuntary donation do you think is being built in to the fee your scout will pay to be in the council contingent to jambo? Its probably another $100 or so. Which brings me to my next thought. If the FOS donation is required for participation in an event, does that change it to a fee thats not tax deductible? It would seem that that kind of change could be the hammer that could be used to put an end to this kind of nonsense.

When they gave the Area 2 project presentations here in Toledo one of several incomprehensible slides showed an in increase in revenue -- this after they had just detailed how it would be a decade plus before Michigan got back to where it was economically before the recession. I asked where they thought they were going to get that revenue. Now I see their answer. Thank goodness we opted out.

I think the first two words in your post are telling: "problem parents". This isn't a boy problem so the solution doesn't really lie with them. My experience is that this kind of thing involves a discreet number of repeat offenders. I would try talking directly to those particular parents, tell them they just can't send the junk. Your idea of checking the packs and sending it back is spot on. If you can't do it before you leave do it when you get where you're going before any packs get inside the tent. Hopefully a few times of sending the stuff home will do the trick. Absent documentable medical problems, even if some kid won't/can't/doesn't want to eat what the rest of the patrol thinks should be on the menu, junk food isn't the alternative.

As a troop we camp minimum once a month every month, we usually get an extra 4 day trip in during the summer in addition to summer camp, and sometimes we'll get an extra trip in the spring. Then for various members of the troop there's NYLT, Jambo, Philmont, etc. and the shakedowns that go with them. We'll stay in a cabin a couple times a winter depending on the weekend activity: we do a November weekend with our Cub Pack where we stay in cabins, if we're going skiing or tobaggoning we'll stay in a cabin. Sleeping outside in the winter is fun, and we do a yearly "Camp Alaska" where we build our own shelters rather than bring tents, but winter outdoor camping also takes a lot of energy and focus and that's why we'll use cabins if our main focus is something other than just surviving outside. Our PLC doesn't have any interest in basements, museums, or indoor sports arenas as camping spots. I should add that the PLC also doesn't really have an interest in Camporee type weekends either. They usually see them as too programmed and structured and prefer just going off into the woods to play.

We count anything that's not a "troop or patrol meeting": eagle and troop service projects, fundraisers, scout sunday, parade, pretty much anything scout related. We read the requirement as a question of do you show up for things besides just the Wednesday night meetings. I see this as a requirement that rewards enthusiasm at the early stages of a scout's career not something that acts as a high hurdle to advancement.

Nice work basement. With all that extra time on your hands now maybe you could get involved at the district level -- or staff at Woodbadge.

Find a way to call the parents and scouts that came to visit. Ask them if they've chosen a troop, ask them to take another look at yours. You have a small troop and are probably going to have to work harder than others to get your recruits. One model I've been thinking about lately is the college coach-high school prospect: a couple of contacts throughout the year including a personal home visit from the coach. This could translate to inviting some Web IIs to a campout during the summer or fall and then a personal visit from you and maybe your SPL.

Make sure the boys get to try a cheesesteak with some tastykakes for dessert while you're there.

Good luck! I suggested something similar for the joint weekend we conduct with our Cub Pack. I was loudly shouted down by the PLC. They apparently love overpriced slushies and sugar.

Our council has two camps, one 90 years old that is now right in town and the other is the council summer camp about an hour away. We do a joint program with our Pack every year at the in-town camp, the past couple years we have done our Annual Program Planning in December at a cabin there also. Our district does two winter weekends, one coincides with our planning weekend, the other we sometimes do and sometimes do not attend. We usually use the summer camp at least once,occassionally twice a year, part of the deal with summer camp is you get one weekend tent camp free that year. I'd like to see us and the district use the summer camp a little more often, it's a nice property and has as much to offer as most of the state parks within the same travel distance. Plus it is easier to let the scouts whoop and holler and generally behave like scouts in a scout camp than in a crowded state park. We were there in September during one of the most beautiful weekends of the year and there was only one other troop in the whole camp.

I think you have two separate issues and you shouldnt conflate the two: 1) You needed to change plans but you didnt communicate that well 2) You had scouts that had to go home early and that was not communicated well to you. So, 1) If you changed plans without letting anyone know than the best thing to do is say sorry, we didnt get everything done Sunday that we needed to so we had to make the change to take care of the equipment. But youre right, I should have let everyone else know as soon as the ASMs and I knew we needed to make the change, Ill try hard not to let it happen again. This is all the response you need to give to the irate e-mail, do it and move on. Dont belabor your point and dont get dragged into a long discussion about the wisdom of the decision. 2) Families have multiple obligations, generally speaking I wouldnt presume to judge how they should set their priorities anymore than I would tolerate someone else telling me how I should set mine. I assume the good faith of adults raising families and assume they are going to make the best choices theyre capable of making. That said, the problem here was the same as above, that information needed to be communicated as soon as it was known. If theres a pattern of a problem already with that parent or if you sense the potential of a future pattern than just have a quiet word with the parent acknowledging that you understand these things need to happen and for everyones sake you just need to know about it sooner. If you sense this is a one time deal do nothing. In both cases, work to make the matter smaller rather than bigger. This forum is full of discussions where the underlying problem is adults more willing to dig in their heals and escalate a conflict rather than turn away and defuse a conflict.

We just completed our re-chartering and tried to use this code. There is apparently no way to use it in the online system and so our council registrar needs to do it manually. I do like the position. We have a couple guys that fall into this category. They're certainly adults and great guys to have around but they really don't fit the role of Assistant Scoutmaster. They cannot make the time commitment necessary to really be given any specific assignment, but they drop in when they can and often join us for our longer, more adventurous trips -- where they're invaluable: after a full day of paddling into the wind on a canoe trip they're still fresh as daisies when some of us oldsters are starting to drag. Oh to be young again.

I object to spanish also, I think they should return to presenting it in latin.

For some reason I cannot start a new thread, so if someone else could spin this off I'd appreciate it. I was looking for a Christmas themed SM minute and I found this one. I could never get through it without balling, but I may use parts of it. http://www.scatacook.org/ScoutmasterMinutesTroop76.html#SM8 Does anyone have any other good Christmas ones to share?

This looks like marketing/propaganda more than any kind of real data. Without knowing who and how many respondents there were for the groups, demographic information like socio-economic status, and some regression analysis to show that the two groups were demonstrably the same, this kind of survey doesnt tell us anything. On second thought, it does tell us where some of our FOS donations are but shouldnt bespent.

In the Pack, for the last stragglers, if we know they still want to be registered and we're confident they're good for it we'll pay the recharter fee and collect later. If they don't recharter they have to fill out new applications so it is ultimately easier on us to recharter and collect rather than get whole new applications. If there is a question about either their commitment or solvency we let them fall off and rejoin. We recharter in January and our Pinewood Derby is usually late January or early February so we have a hard rule that you have to be registered to race, and we collect either checks or applications at the registration desk. In the Pack, if you're not doing PWD you're probably not really in the program. In the Troop we usually have a much better idea of who is or isn't sticking with the program, and because we meet weekly it's easier to have a face to face chat to get the money in. I believe, for the troop at least, part of the recharter process asks if you have personally contacted either the scout or parent personally before you drop them from the charter. So there are some last minute calls or personalized e-mails for anyone I'm dropping.

I wanted to revive this thread and ask a slightly different question. How much of your calendar of events is set before it gets to the boys? My view is that we are starting with a blank slate, and working with the PLC and other POR holders they choose their activities for the upcoming year. I have received some resistance to this from within the troop with some leaders believing there are "must do" campouts that shouldn't really be an option. At a training seminar I attended at a University of Scouting that was the message also. The presenter essentially scheduled 10 of the 12 months, based on district/council schedules and "what they always do" and his scouts had maybe one or two trips they could really decide on. When I challeneged this as counter to being "boy led" I found I was very much in the minority. For instance, we always put district camporees as a possibility, but I believe it's up to the boys whether to choose that or another trip for that month (usually April).

Generally, I consider scouts to be part of their education as opposed to recreation. It's not a reward for other good behavior rather it's an integral part of their growth and development. So I look at scout meetings as part of the evening's homework, and other activities are curtailed that night accordingly. If they don't have their other homework done before the meeting they have to finish when they get home, and if they have to stay up a little later to do that so be it. If they don't get done before it's too late then the same consequences apply to any other time when they have incomplete work at school -- homework room at school and if that becomes a pattern then loss of other priveleges at home. That said, they've occasionally missed scouts when there were large projects with looming deadlines, and if their school work was really slipping, or they were becoming overwhelmed with volume, scouts would take a back seat.

I guess if a myth is around long enough it becomes the truth. Ridiculous and sad.

Beav, Can you point us to the new language. The only thing I can find is an asterisk note in the Eagle project booklet that says "Power tools considered hazardous, like circular saws, must be operated by adults experinced in their use. See the Guide to Safe Scouting." But I can't find anything in the G2SS

Lawn mowers was the example I used to show the absurdity of this when trying to correct the information at WB. The person I was speaking with made it clear that they didn't appreciate being enlightened.

I'm sure this has been covered before, but two posts on the parent thread obliquely indicated that scouts cannot use power tools, and I was even "taught" at Woodbadge that Scouts are not allowed to use power tools, so I think it's worth covering again. There is no prohibition against Scouts using power tools so long as you are following the Sweet Sixteen of safety (the exception is that somewhere there are extra rules about chainsaws). Does anyone know if scouts EVER were really prohibited from using power tools or this just a myth that won't die?

I talk to the parents of my scouts all the time. Contrary to what some people believe I think that's actually a critical part of a SM's job -- specifically because I recognize that they are entrusting me with the most precious being in the world to them, their child. I talk to parents about many things, including safety issues of which YPT is just one. I have had one or two parents not have a scout go on a particular trip because of a safety concern -- not about how we operate but because they weren't sure their son would be responsible enough for the event, and I don't second guess them on that. I like to think that I listen to the parents, I do conduct regular parent meetings and I always ask if anyone has any questions. But E-61 does make me wonder if I shouldn't be more explicit in getting feedback: asking rather than telling. It would disturb me greatly if I found out that any of my parents had as poor a view of me as E-61 has of his son's SM. Frankly, if I found out that he/she was that worried about their son's safety when I was responsible for him I would work overtime, including really insisting they come on an outing with us, to assuage their fears and provide us some real time feedback.