T2Eagle

I like the two fry pans in the Campmor set.

First, do yourself and your scouts a favor and get all non-stick pans. Our troop still uses the patrol kit design that I used in the 70s. I hated them then and I hate them more now. I'm trying to get agreement on replacing them. It takes a skillful cook and more butter, margarine, oil, or bacon grease than anyone should want to use to keep things from sticking and/or burning in them. If you want to piece together your own set you can try restaurant supply houses, they often have generic pans of good quality for reasonable prices. Also look for kitchen ware outlet stores that may be offering a good deal on seconds or returned sets from a name brand manufacturer. When I'm grubmaster for the adults I bring an REI Large Cookset and supplement it with one or two specialty pans if I need to. I think it's a little on the small side if you have a full size patrol and I want to find something similar but larger. REI does offer what looks like a bigger set that I may go take a look at. The advantage to those sets is they're designed to be packed and so are built much lighter than standard cookware. I look forward to seeing what other folks think because I see this as something in our near future. Whatever you do please report back after you've used them.

It does seem pretty inefficient to recheck everyone when probably only a small number of boys actually need it at that time. On the other hand, the coordination of paperwork would be pretty timely also, and there would probably be some kid from every troop that wasn't around at the troop's test now you would have to separate them and a buddy from whatever their troop was otherwise doingat that time. My understanding for my son's Jambo troop is that he's supposed to keep his tag from summer camp to take to Jambo with him. So if that works for them why not for the rest of scouting?

I would not take this to the PLC. Absent some compelling argument that none of us imagines (I suspect the first part of CalicoPenn's post is the most likely explanation), this is a dumb idea that should be killed in committee where it originated. If whether the scouts are wearing a shirt at 11PM in the campsite at summer camp is your biggest problem, you have no problems.

I cant think of any inherent reason a UC shouldnt give the FOS presentation in his own or other units. The FOS presentations should be given by folks who are competent doing that type of public speaking and interaction. If the UC is competent than she should do them. Sure not all UCs are going to be able to do this or be effective doing it, but fundraising shouldnt be seen as an unfriendly act that someone helping a unit shouldnt soil their hands with. In fact, if a UC is really good at their role they should have exactly the kind of credibility that would enable them to explain the relationship between the programs provided and the costs, financing, and need for fundraising they entail. I have been spending time lately as a volunteer becoming involved in fundraising for our council. The one thing that is constant and clear is there are more needs then there are monies to pay for them. FOS is one of the primary ways that scouting is financed and until someone comes up with the money from somewhere else it needs to be done and done well.

The question of when and whether to charge people for rescuing them is a complicated one. I think the threshold question is whether were talking about charging everyone or just those whose foolishness was so far beyond the pale that its unreasonable to expect the rest of us foot their bill. I would say its only folks in the latter category who we should even consider charging. We should, as a society, be willing to allow folks to participate in somewhat risky activities and be willing to bail them out of them even at a cost to the commonwealth. Go for a hike in the mountains and get attacked by a bear, sure we'll go rescue you. Even get into the wilderness a little over your head or get caught in some unseasonable weather, yes, we all pitch in and pay for it knowing someday it could be us we could be unlucky, or we could make those small missteps in judgment that add up to real problems. But then theres a second category of folks whose behavior is different, whose behavior almost guarantees that its not a matter of bad luck that they end up in trouble, rather it can only be great good luck that will keep them out of it. Where I live now its ice fishing that brings out the recklessly foolish. Last year more than 150 people had to be rescued from an ice flow in Lake Erie. http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/07/Ohio.stuck.on.ice/index.html The number was an anomaly but the circumstances were not. What happens usually goes something like this: its really cold for a while and a nice bit of ice builds up. Some very hearty souls go out in this cold and fish through the ice. But then the weather gets warm very quickly and another group of people say to themselves hey, its a nice warm day, I think Ill go ice fishing, and inevitably a bunch of them end up having to be rescued because they went out on the ice when they absolutely shouldnt have gone. In the case above a good many of them either jumped over open water to get out on the ice flow or crossed some plywood bridges people had built over the breaks in the ice. We can talk about paying taxes for this sort of thing, but the costs here fall disproportionately on one small town whose inhabitants are not those needing to be rescued. I know that first responders are rightly concerned that charging for rescues just makes people wait longer to call for help, and then the rescue is just riskier and more expensive. But isnt there some point where we should bill people whose actions show that they assume well come get them no matter how reckless they are?

I see two separate issues here. The first is whether this particular young man was negligent, and the second is how to pay for rescues, especially rescues of the foolish. On the first Im with RememberSchiff, this kid was negligent. Ive spent some time in those mountains and they can be notoriously difficult. Backpacker Magazine computed Americas 10 Most Dangerous Hikes, Mt. Washington was number 4. If you google lost hiker found in White Mountains you have to wade through a lot of stories to find this particular one, including several that are BODY of lost hiker found I dont think any 17 year old high school junior has any business trying to summit Mt. Washington alone, especially in winter conditions. Lets start with his plan. The 17 miles he intended to do is considered either a REALLY ambitious day hike or more often an overnighter --- in mid-summer. Day hike in this case meaning using all 14 hours of sunlight to get there and back. The chances that he was going to complete it in one day in April were almost nil. April, the cruelest month, youre going to have snow, lots of it, but not the white fluffy stuff you can snow shoe on top of, rather its going to be soft and mushy, like walking through waist deep slush. The searchers had to set up rope systems to traverse streams just to get into the search area, but he expected to get through there by himself. This is not the best time of year to go up, especially by yourself. Finally his equipment, yes he had a bivvy sack, warm clothes and snow shoes, but except for the snow shoes thats the minimum you take if you do that climb in July, in winter you take a real shelter, a down bag and a stove, and someone to share the weight. This young man was a rescue waiting to happen when he took his first step on the trail. Everything would have had to go better than it was reasonable to expect for him to get up and down based on his plan. If the weather hadnt been unusually nice for the three days he spent on the mountain we would be mourning his tragedy not debating his negligence. One of my all time favorite signs is at the top of Wildcat Mountain, the ski area across the valley from Mt. Washington: These mountains will be as cold, dark, and lonely tonight as they were two hundred years ago ---never ski alone Ill give my $.02 about paying for rescues in a second posting.

One possibility is to get in touch with a Boy Scout Troop and see if you can have an activity or two together on a weekend. That can be a chance for the timing to be right for the dads to take the boys and meet some other men who will be very welcoming and give a pretty good sales pitch on why they (dads) should be involved in this stuff. Coffee around a campfire is about as male bonding as you can get. Our Cub Pack and Scout Troop are sponsored by the same organization and each year we do a campout trip together. No matter who might be runnng the den or taking the boys to the meetings most (not all) of the attendees are male. Coffee around a campfire is about as male bonding as you can get.

Moggie, I just went to that site. When you say "here in the UK" do you mean just your group or most of the scout groups? That type of tent is almost unheard of here. Here is a link to a page from REI, most of the scout troops I've seen use tents of this type of design. http://www.rei.com/category/4500029 Our troop was recently given an old canvas "patrol" type tent, it came with its own pot belly stove. We are going to put it up on our next trip, but I think we're going to save the stove 'til next winter.

I dug out my merit badge sash to take a look live. SWMBO says its a zoidberg, like the guy on Futurama. Turns out I have had mine hanging oriented incorrectly for several decades. I had it turned a quarter turn counter clockwise from the picture so that it looked like the fish was on a line and the cat was munching on it. The blue thing looks like some sort of parasite to me.

Here's a nice bit of news I picked up from NPR earlier today. Georgetown Fraternity Wins National Service Challenge April 09, 2010 - By Rebecca Sheir, WAMU A co-ed fraternity at Georgetown University is among the winners of a national contest geared toward community service. Phi Omega will use its winnings from the Pepsi Refresh Project to mentor scout troops. Pepsi is doling out $1.3 million to fund dozens of service projects nationwide. Alpha Phi Omega has received $25,000 to mentor one Girl Scout troop and one Boy Scout troop in Washington, D.C. This summer, the fraternity will send approximately two-dozen boys to Scout camp. The chapter also will use the funds for Scout field trips, college scholarships, uniforms, handbooks and other supplies. Members of the public cast votes to pick the winners of the Pepsi Refresh Project. Alpha Phi Omega received the second-most votes in the $25,000 category.

Even if we disagree with them I dont think its necessary to vilify the other side. It's not hard to think of agreements that might have been made back then that we wouldnt want to continue today. If you purchased a house and promised not to sell it to anyone Asian, African-American, or otherwise undesirable I would hope we wouldnt consider it a matter of honor to not break that promise. Here the good people of Philadelphia, using proper democratic processes, have, through their duly elected representatives decided that they dont want to continue to provide any support to groups that discriminate based on religious beliefs and/or sexual orientation. Its not crazy to say that renting one of the choicest pieces of real estate in the city for a dollar a year is providing support to just such an organization. Its worth noting that the volunteers running that council wanted to bring their policies in line with what is the majority position in their city, but they were ordered not to by National, and the city has said the scouts can stay at that location if they give up the citys support and pay market rate rent. Depending on the terms of the original agreement and other considerations it is very possible that if the scouts vacate the building they will be compensated for its value. Now we certainly have arguments on our side and thats why we have courts to sort them out. But just because they are in disagreement with us doesnt mean the people of Philadelphia are being dishonorable.

When the troop is camping and all the cooking is by patrol, with whom do the SPL and ASPL cook and eat? Currently ours mess with their former patrols and it works for us, but I was wondering what other ways are out there?

Our scout shop will sell you extra rank insignia if you tell them why you need them: lost, new shirt, etc. What they don't want is a troop "stockpiling" insignia and then not turning in forms. Since every scout going to Jambo has to have at least two complete uniforms they're going to have to allow people to buy extra insignia, and they're going to have to accept Jambo as a reason.

Looks kosher to me. There is a tenderfoot cooking requirement also; I don't think you can count the same meals for that requirement. But assuming he did three meals on a Saturday and one more on Sunday he should be able to have that signed offf also.

Wilderness Survival was my favorite, First Aid was a close second. I'm going to go down the basement and see if my merit badge sash clues me in to which one was first.

I have tried to find the Oregon Supreme Court opinion giving the files to the plaintiff's attorney, but I haven't been able to find it. All the press reports reference it. I don't have access to any of the commercial legal databases but nowhere on the web can I find it. I'd love to see what legal theory the scouts were using. People can talk about confidentiality, protecting reputations, etc., but unless some sort of privilege can be asserted: attorney-client, attorney work product, etc. most records that an organization has can be pried lose by subpoena in the right lawsuit.

I won't put words in his mouth, but I given the rest of OGE's post I took his remark as mostly tongue in cheek and the Pediatrician's "prescription" as an urge to address the cognitive side of ADD/ADHD.

Thanks for the responses. While I was reading them I went back and checked the sources I originally cited. Something I never noticed was that they don't agree on the process. The Handbook says hot soapy water, hot water rinse, cold bleach rinse. The Fieldbook says hot soapy water, cold bleach rinse, then hot water rinse. So I think Ill go with the Fieldbook order and one teaspoon (or less) per gallon.

Both the handbook and fieldbook list a three part process for dishwashing: hot wash, hot rinse, cold rinse. My question is about the third step. Both books say to use a few drops of bleach or a sanitizing tablet. I am talking here strictly about front country camping where we have an ample supply of clean sanitary water. Does anyone have a reference source for how much bleach or what kind and how much of a sanitizing tablet to use? Or a reference demonstrating the necessity of this? When I do dishes at home I don't feel the need to perform step 3, and even on a family camping trip I wouldn't do it. But it's in the book and we do it in the troop and I don't want to stop following this method, but I am sure we're using too much bleach. After I've washed a dish in hot soapy water and rinsed it in clean hot water I'm not crazy about leaving a chlorine film on it to flavor my next meal. Thanks,

Every time I wash my uniform shirt I have to take out my name tag and replace it when the shirt is done. Now my name has been the same all my life, and I'm trying hard to not grow out of my shirt --that's why I stopped reading the pie thread. So why can't I just get a permanent name tag and sew it on? Does anyone have a source? Will the uniform police come after me if I do this? Thanks,

I love that they're up. I love the idea. And I don't want to be too acerbic, but does anyone see anything here that couldn't have been completed a week after the first announcement in Scouting magazine?

yeah John-in-KC, Reminds me of my professor who used to say "be patient, I'm not used to teaching law to more than nine people at a time." Let nothing I ever post be construed as agreeing with Merlyn. Even when I agree with him I don't agree with him.

Is that a trick question Beavah? They cannot give him extra tutoring because he is an immigrant, and they cannot give him extra services because he's Vietnamese. But they can offer him special tutoring, etc. because he is behind his peers. Just like they would give him or the scion of the Mayflower if either one of them was dyslexic, or went to some crappy school system before, or if for any other reason he was not in line with where he should be. What they couldn't do is deny the benefit to the Mayflower kid because he's a Mayflower kid And although it is not as strong an argument today as it was when I was a kid, it is possible that they could offer someone special services because for the previous 200 years they wouldn't even have let him in the school precisely because he didn't look like a Mayflower kid. But that's an entirely different amendment.

I should add to my previous posting that what I most want to do is work with the family to determine what's best for the individual scout. I would be more than willing to take responsibility for a medication if a parent, or even the scout, thinks that's what's best for that scout. Some scouts are more responsible than others, some medications are more critical than others.