T2Eagle

I saw the "sing for stuff" going very wrong one summer camp and put an end to it. My biggest concern is having lost stuff not become my problem. So what we can't match up with its owner before we leave camp, if it's valuable, I have one of the scouts go show to the parents as they're hanging around the parking lot waiting for us to unload and release the scouts. That usually finds an owner and an ally in the cause of labeling everything and remembering what belongs to you. The one that amazes me is socks, inevitably we turn up 2 or 3 unmatched socks almost every trip. And yet no one belongs to them, and we're not talking cheap 10 for a dollar cotton tube socks, these are name brand under-armour, nike, etc. They are inevitably wet and nasty and I have given up on them, if no one claims them at the camp we toss them. This weekend one of my sons was the culprit. I noticed when I did laundry monday that one of his good hiking socks was unmatched. It happens we had his tent in the yard drying out and sure enough when we went to fold it there was the match. The kicker is his tent mate left Saturday so he was the only one in his tent. How do you not see something that is the only thing in a tent besides air????

I don't have a definitive answer. One consideration would be how closely scouts is tied to his school. Our Pack is made up almost entirely of boys from our parish school, so a scout is in a den with his classmates. In our case it could make sense to have the boy stay back and move to a den with his new classmates. We are a big school and also have our own baseball, basketball, football teams -- all school grade based -- and so the new classmates would also become his new teammates in any sport he was engaged in.

I don't have a definitive answer. One consideration would be how closely scouts is tied to his school. Our Pack is made up almost entirely of boys from our parish school, so a scout is in a den with his classmates. In our case it could make sense to have the boy stay back and move to a den with his new classmates. We are a big school and also have our own baseball, basketball, football teams -- all school grade based -- and so the new classmates would also become his new teammates in any sport he was engaged in.

Has anyone else tried to register themselves or a scout for Jambo? One of the interesting things was that when we began to register a cell phone number was a required field. This is the best news eldest son has had in a long time. He takes this to mean he's allowed to get a cell phone now so he can go to Jambo. Also interesting is that you can't seem to finish the process yet. After entering all his information, albeit with my cell #, the site says "next action required: pending parent approval", but there doesn't seem to be any way to do the parental approval. The site also says; "The 2013 Jamboree application system is being developed in stages. The administrative processes will not be available until August 1, 2011. Applications will remain in a "Pending Review" status until then." I'm curious what experience other folks have had.

Our camp has the SPLs sign-up to do inspections of other units' sites as part of the competition for the Baden Powell award. The rule on tents is that if they're open to the public they need to be neat, but if the flaps are down they're private and no one goes looking inside. I would definitely have my SPL do this rather than myself. As part of making sure that everybody was doing OK I might have the PLC leaders check with individual tent mates and make an opportunity to take a look at things to gauge how well scouts, expecially newer, younger scouts, were doing keeping themselves together.

Thanks for your help, I can'wait to get there.

I have to add that I never build an itinerary under the assumption it will be sunny. I am currently at 16 straight trips where some precipitation fell during the trip. People are starting to wonder whether I should continnue to be invited.

Thanks for the responses so far, we have a family with a cabin there and we're using that as a base for a long weekend. We plan to do one overnight on the river. I have a couple of follow ups. How Leave No Trace do you have to be camping on the islands? Do we dig cat holes, do we need to use wag bags? Also, it looks like Chief Cornplanter sometimes rents out their canoes, did you look at that at all.

Our troop is planning a trip to the Allegheney National Forest area at the end of July. We are hoping to do an overnight canoe trip on the Allegheny and I am looking for recommendations on both a livery service and an itinerary. Any and all suggestions are welcome.

In addition to going to troop meetings, I think if you really want to find out how a troop operates -- and why it operates that way -- ask if you can visit the monthly PLC. At a PLC you'll find out who's really planning and organizing, how open they are to new ideas, and what it is they put a premium on. One troop meeting is only a snapshot. You might hit the off week that all they have going on is a merit badge class, or the dreaded tent cleaning party, but miss the other three weeks when they were gearing up and gearing down from an outing. But a PLC will at a minimum show you what they're doing that month and more likely give you a feel for what's going on the next several months, and as I said it will show you who is really leading the troop and how they're going about it.

Perdidochas, Our diocese requires that the volunteer pay for the fingerprinting/backgound check, but there are different levels of fingerprinting and differing levels as to which types of volunteers need which training. If you have only lived in state a couple years they run a national (I think FBI) print check, if you have been in state a while it's just a state check for $25. Our parish (CO) picks up the first $10 and the troop picks up the balance. Also not all scouters need that full a background check, if you aren't going to camp or otherwise be overnight with the scouts there is a lesser training, the same as that for chaperones in school field trips and no fingerprints required. Will all the volunteers in the parish such as all the coaches, have to pay the full amount?

violently taking money from others This is the view I dont understand. We have somehow come to believe that we dont have to pay for our democracy, that somehow taxes themselves are an evil thing levied upon us by ignoble forces they are not, they are rather one of the cornerstones of democracy. I still believe that government of the people, by the people, for the people has not perish[ed] from the earth, and I am a full part of that. Whatever we the people do through our democratic institutions we are responsible for it. No matter how much we might disagree with the action: be it waging war, providing health care to poor people, or simply funding the local schools, we are all taking that action and all have the obligation to pay for it. If you look around the world to countries that dont openly fund their government through taxes you universally find tyranny rather than democracy: the oil countries of the Middle East, the mineral rich states of Africa, Venezuela, Russia. The citizens of these countries dont, and arent even allowed to, levy taxes upon themselves, and this is in part why their governments feel free to take actions that are divorced from the will of their people. So it is not a confiscatory act when you pay taxes rather it is your duty to pay them and to ensure that so does everyone else. This is the price and obligation of democracy. I think our founders understood this better at the birth of our republic than we do today. Taxes are not a taking of my money by a government that I am somehow disassociated from. They are rather one of the three pledges mutually made for the support of this Declaration [of Independence] our Lives, our Fortunes, and our Sacred honor. A pledge I still feel bound to today.

UC Eagle, any chance you'll be wearing your uniform?

Our Pack has been operating with a committee on paper-only for years. Our den leaders are effectively the committee and the cubmaster is effectively the committee chair. By most measures we continue to be successful we have 40 50 scouts year after year, our finances are strong, and we crossover a patrol of scouts to the troop each year so I think this is a model that can be replicated. Most of cubbing happens in the den so I would concentrate your efforts recruiting den leaders.

Start with the manufacturer. I've had wonderful luck with Kelty. They have a generous view of what constitutes a warranty covered issue.

ECOH is not the time to do an FOS, the ECOH is about the Eagle Scout. B&G is OK but not my favorite, I'd rather do it at a well attended Pack meeting when you can separate the parents from the Cubs for a little bit. You get a few less listeners than at a B&G but they're probably listening a little better. COHs are also OK, we always have a parent meeting following the COH and once a year FOS is one of the agenda items at that meeting. Whenever possible we have a volunteer, ideally someone from the Pack or Troop, do the presentation although the DE is usually there. A smart DE does go to ECOHs and does his job: properly honoring the scout, introducing himself, meeting and engaging lots of folks, being the face of professional scouting. That way when the proper venue for fundraising presents itself the DE is someone already known, not just some guy who shows up to ask for money. As to the most viable action for FOS, it's us. Yes fundraising can be uncomfortable, but one on one requests from someone that is part of the program is more effective than any group meeting. We want this program to work, and until someone comes up with a better way to fund it, those of us in it probably need to be a part of that fundraising.

I don't know that I have a completely clear picture but I think you messed it up. It sounds like there were three separate sleeping areas. But you put adult males and females in one area together, that's not right. Then it sounds like you had adults and youths together in another area and they may not have been all the same gender and weren't separated by at least blankets for privacy, that's also not right. I would have said area 1: all males over 18, area 2: all males under 18, area 3: all females (from your description it sounds like no under 18 females were there). I would have strung blankets or the like between the areas for privacy. G2SS says "male and female leaders must have separate sleeping facilities" this means separate from each other not just separate from the rest of the group. Also the term "leader" would refer here to all adults -- that includes parents not just registered leaders. I would get an official view from your DE or higher and quickly, and if you were wrong apologize early and often, don't wait for them to come to you, don't wait for roundtable, if you're wrong get out in front of it early.

That would make this the new, new, new medical forms?

My take is you're a register Scouter at a uniformed Scouting event, you should wear your uniform.

Someone has been busy down in Irving. A committee person pointed me to this new form. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/HealthSafety/pdf/parts_ab.pdf I haven't looked at it closely enough to know if it's an improvement. Certainly having A+B be the mandatory sheets and C be the add-on is somewhat helpful. Besides wanting to let folks know this was up; I'm also curious as to how we are supposed to "officially" be notified about changes like this and the new tour permit. What should be the official communication of these kinds of updates and changes?

I think Shortridge is right on the interpretation. Sloppy drafting by the author (not unusual in the BSA).

I'm only nominally part of a venturing crew, but we've had married couples on scout trips plenty of times and they tent as a couple. If we were in a cabin situation where there were only two types of accommodations then clearly it would be separate by gender, but in tents I can't see any point to that. Besides why should I put up with my ASM's snoring when I can make his wife deal with it in her tent?

Is there any substance to this? Does it change anything regarding say insurance? Does the "Active ScoutParent" get coverage from the scouts as primary coverage rather than secondary? We ask that any parent who wants to join us on a trip complete YPT, but neither they nor we want to go further than that and register as a Committee Member every parent who might camp with us once in a year. Can this be useful for that situation, or is it really just meaningless?

AS EJCrimmins suggested, Erie Shores Council's Pioneer has a very good provo program. I've known the SM for the last couple years and he's terrific. I don't know if he's doing it this year. The camp is really well set up for 1st and 2nd year campers. Another option is to get in touch with a nearby troop and see if your scout can go with them. We had a scout from our town, different troop, come with us this year becasue of a conflict with the family vacation and it worked out well for everyone.

'92 I haven't gone back to track our average attrition rate, but 1/2 doesn't seem outrageously high. We pull almost all our scouts from our CO's Catholic elementary school, and as I mentioned we usually start out with three Tiger dens and are down to one by Webelos at the latest, often by the Bear year. It doesn't seem unique to Cubs; a similar attrition rate occurs in Baseball and Soccer -- almost all the boys in first grade will play both sports and then over the years pare themselves down.