SSScout

The Jambo can be, I would aver, divided into four types of people. There is (are?) the pro staff, the volunteer staff, the Scout participants and the visitors. And the military support staff, I guess. Five types. It is, IMHO, one of the best uses of military spending around. The Scout Participants are selected by a competitive method. Not everybody who applies can attend. I think (correct me here) but each national region/council selects the Scouts that attend from their area. Draw from a hat? Write an essay? Know somebody who knows somebody? The method is unknown to me, but in my attendance last time, I was led to believe that each area had their own criterion for selection. And any one else can show up and attend for the day, and participate in anything for which you feel like standing in line. Upwards of 43,000 last time, plans for 75,000 in 2010??? Whoa! Hope to see you there!

My Scoutmaster said,"soap the pot, And the cleaning will go like a shot" So that's what I did, Bottom, in, out and lid. Bubbly stew but edible...not! Poison Ivy has green leaflets three. Scouts certainly know this, don't we? Yet we sometimes get lesions In sensitive regions From using the wrong leaning tree...

Added Value... "And if you order your belt before 10:30, we will include , absolutely free, a simulated brass safety clip that is specially designed JUST for your belt!" Things I have seen hanging from the clip (sometimes more than one): -pocket knife. -compass. -match safe. -coil of rope. -signal flag (?linesman?) -ANOTHER clip. -dog leash, with small dog attached! Any more?

Oy veys mir... I'm not sure I have boots tall enough to wade thru all this... In no particular order... I was referring to Jesus' having no POLITICAL power, not spiritual power. Yes, he allowed a lot to happen to fulfill the prophecies and his Fathers will, but still, he had no POLITICAL power. And that is what is spoken of here. Constitutional law... as opposed to moral rectitude... The Great Compromise allowed the southern states to count the SLAVES as less than a whole human. And then not allow them to vote, because they (slaves) were not citizens, but "property". Back then, the Constitution Acknowledged slavery, but it's hard to say that it CONDONED it. Most of our Founding Fathers mentioned the moral evil of slavery, but had no easy way to end it. So the Constitution did acknowledge the holding of Humans as Property, not as Humans. But then so did the Bible (acknowledge, not condone...). Another topic. A whole lot of people worked to correct that error. I like the previous observation that the Hebrews were given the Ten Commandments, telling them "Thou shalt not kill" and then were instructed to go and annihilate an entire population so they (the Hebrew people) could inhabit that land. Makes me shiver. So, when it comes to personal relations, political action, social exchanges, language used, interpretation of law.... WWJD? TBC...

David.self: Welcome to the forum! ( or is it the colliseum? Hard to tell sometimes) Let's see now, Jesus was not european, but Pilate was. Jesus had no power, but Pilate had the power of life and death in the land, speaking for Caesar. Pilate "washed his hands" of the affair, and let the "locals" deal with their "problem". I perceive that the previous thread was (in part) dealing with how one treats people who are of a different color/heritage/religion/language than oneself. Some folks perceive themselves as superior to others by virtue of their place of birth or type of parents or professed religious faith and hence suppose that it is appropriate to deal with those "others" by excluding them from those areas that the self declared superior folks have control over: Schooling, housing, employment. The British attempted it in India.("White man's burden") . Mahatma Gandhi led a successful non- violent rebellion there. It was VERY non-violent, but people still died. So is Jesus' example appropriate here? What does THAT have to do with THIS? I think Lisabob spoke to part of it. Many primitive tribes have names for themselves that translate into english as "the people". If WE are "the people", that makes every one else NOT the people, and it is therefore correct to NOT deal with THOSE as EQUALS. It really did take an act of Congress (and the SCOTUS) to declare that someone with dark skin IS "a man". And not an "other". Why did the Constitutional convention come to "The Great Compromise" when dealing with the "negroes" of the southern states? I do not belive that the "war of northern aggression" was fought over purely "States Rights". Unless it was the "right" to keep the "others" in their place. Hope that helped. YiS

It occurs to me that Jesus was not a white caucasoid european. Presumably neither was the Sanhedron. But Pilate was. TS: WWJD?

Aztec human sacrefice... ummm... Well, I guess we missed that one back in Abraham's time. Here's a site to mess with your collective minds and stretch the idea of inclusiveness... it seems there are many, many "true faiths". www.religioustolerance.org Is there a Scout movement in Haiti? do they have a Voodoo religious award?

"Veeery Interesting. But Shtupid." =Artie Johnson= MRL: Now you've got my attention. Except for those who accept the faith given them by their family and environs ( Friends use the term 'birthright'), one's expressed faith is a choice. And it is correct to use the term "convinced". Most Friends these days ARE "convinced". That is the term we use for those that come to worship with us and after a time CHOOSE (decide??) to declare themselves in agreement with Friend principles and testimonies. It is ultimately a CHOICE, even if it is a choice not to change. Evangelicals, of what ever persuasion, have as their mission to CONVINCE you of the rightness, the correctness, of their position/opinion/religion/faith. And, yes, Athiesm is a religion. It is a belief in the non-existance of God. Look up any Ethical Society and you will find an organization with all the trappings of a church/temple/mosque except the name. Sermons (lectures), Study groups (discussions), Sunday school (youth groups), even hymn sings (musicales). Choose for an hour? Naw, that's experimenting, not choosing. Choosing is declaring onesself, much as you have. Choosing is telling the world what you are. "Here I stand". That's the importance of water baptism for a Baptist. Pick a religion, and there is usually a way for the proponent to publicly declare themselves. "Is you is or is you ain't my baby". Thank you Fats Waller. YiS

Friend LongHaul speaks much of my mind. I do not choose to be a Jew. I do not choose to be a Baptist. I do not choose to be an athiest. But I could. We have that choice and the results accordingly. But some folks, in their search for truth either 1) do not search, but accept what has been given them already by family, or school. or 2) settle in to a faith (yeah even atheism can be called a faith) that seems to suit them, a 'comfort zone' or 3) keep looking to find an explanation for how the world came to be, as it is or as it might be, or 4) to explain what comes after THIS life, or.... I am still reminded of Kipling's story of the several blind men trying to convince each other of their own perception of what an elephant is (or at least their portion of an elephant). Our elephant is, after all, far too immense for any one of us to fully understand or fully explain it to the rest of us. I am not convinced that the nations leaders from our founding on were ever fully guided by principles that Jesus would acknowledge as his own. Like many others, they picked and chose those that suited them and found ways to ignore the others. Watching "Liberty's Kids" with my son, we were able to see many examples, even in this simplistic exposition, of many of our Founding Fathers jealousy, greed, lack of trust, lack of 'Christian Charity' and racial and religious bigotry. It is well known that much of the Articles of Confederation and later the Constitution were inspired by the governance of the Iroquoi Confederacy. Did Christianity contribute, Of course. Were many of our founders Diests? of a certainty. Some were Jewish. Maryland had a religious war(!) before the Catholic Lord Calvert allowed the toleration of the Quaker settlers. Pennsylvania was at peace with all it's native population until the majority of the colonial legislature ceased to be Quaker and then Pennsylvania had every bit as much war as the rest of the colonies. Even Ben Franklin was questionable. As I think it was Winston Churchill who said that our system of government is far from perfect, but it is the best we've come up with. We are not perfect, tho we may strive for it. The important thing is being honest in our admission. I have to do some laundry. Been nice talking to you! TBC...

All the good ideas. I bet someone you know knows someone who has a brother in law whose cousin is a Ham radio operator. See if your Cubs can visit their operation. Look up REACT, both in the phone book and ask the local fire and rescue folks, they will know. REACT folks do disaster communication and often can come and set up at your location to demo international communications! Talk to a Ham in Peru or England! How cool would that be!

A couple of questions for them what can answer: 1) Was it BSA that "pulled the Charters" or was it the various organizations that resigned them? 2) Were there really any "Public Schools" sponsoring Scout units, or was it the PTAs and such? I can't see Thomas Jefferson Union Elementary School of Blahblah City sponsoring a Scout unit. The PTA could. And the leadership of that august group might have taken umbrage at the DRP. 3) Since BSA is a voluntary organization, and no one HAS to join, why is it so important that certain people WANT to join? Hypocracy not withstanding... Hello Pack.

The DRP as presently stated and used is contradicted by BSAs courting of Buddhist Scouts, Confuscian Scouts and others (those are just the ones I'm aware of). The promise that we ask Cubs and Boys Scouts to state, speaks of ones "duty to God". First, I would suggest that promising to do ones best here naturally makes the DRP unnecessary.I would then postulate that that duty is not mine to judge, but Gods. I would perhaps speak with the boy about how he sees his duty and how he might be striving to meet it, but it is not my duty to judge if he really is doing "his duty", only God can do that. His method of prayer (or not), his style of devotion (or lack of it), is between him, his family, his religious leaders (if any) and his rock,er, god. We are not talking about the boys duty to me, after all. Anyone watching the PBS special about the three big religions? As for the so called Pledge... When I do Scoutcraft at our CSDC, and we get to Flag Courtesy, I always ask the boys if they can think of a reason someone might not say the PoA? They mention "he might be a terrorist", "maybe he can't talk". RARELY has anyone mentioned the two main reasons: being of another nationality and having religious objections. I suggest to them they approach that person later and politely ask about it, they might have an interesting conversation. I have never had a listening adult comment about this. As a Friend (Quaker), I try to uphold Jesus' admonition to "swear not at all" and our faiths advice to "avoid judicial oaths and loyalty oaths" and avoid worship of "things "(idolotry)(this would include materialism. Another time...). So promising to be loyal to a piece of cloth is hard, we don't do it. This little denial of action we share with many other faiths, too. The Friend Scouts I know all learned the PoA, it is a requirement, and they recite it for the requirement, but not ceremonially. Now, as to athiests... I feel sad for them. But they are, in essence, doing what they see as their duty to God by CHOOSING NOT to believe in him/her/it. I see it simply as that. For BSA to REQUIRE a professed belief in a diety(s), makes it very hard to then say that BSA is non-discriminatory. By the way, Athiests have a church, if in all respects but name, in the various "Ethical Societies" around the country. Look'em up. (a worship of nogod. ummm...) Ya pays yer money, ya takes yer cherce. Now, as I mentioned in another thread, as a Chaplain at the Jamboree, one of my duties was talking to Scouts as they came to the "Relationship" tent. I met maybe 10 or 12 boys among the many others who had no professed faith and so I got to speak to them for them to earn their "DtG" rocker. With 30 other Chaps doing the same thing thru the week that calculates to about 300 Scouts without a faith. The ones I spoke to were 'not sure' about the God thing. Does that mean they should be ejected from our brotherhood outright? Not to my mind. YiS in spite of...

Ladeeeees and Geeeentlmen... The main event! In this corner, at mmnteinmte pounds, the judeo-Christian traditionalists... And in this corner, the all-inclusionists... And in THIS corner, the any-religion-see-the-dictionary-definitionists.... AND in THIS corner, the Baden-Powell Nature-as-religion-Practical-Christianityists... And in this other corner, various Scout masters and Cubmasters just trying to teach Scouting to boys while not being terribly interested in the boys personal beliefs... This will be 15 rounds, no holds bared. Logic, faith exposition, sacred text quotating and personal revelation will be allowed. Now, when you hear the bell, I want you to come to the center of the ring and ...oh heck, keep doing what ever it is you do. We'll sort it out eventually. And may the boys win...

12) " The business of America is business" =Calvin Cooledge= Is there still truth to this statement? TBC...

10) And when the Taliban came to power in Afghanistan, it was with the support of whom, as a counter to the Russian presence? And was there somewhere a mention of a proposed oil/gas pipeline ? 11) My memory may have some gaps, but when the French were reticent to give up their colony in Indochina, what happened to the elections mandated by the Geneva conference? TBC...

Usta be a Scout had to be First Class to be able to earn MBs. Now, Scout rank is sufficient. Some Troops use the MBs as a structure for passing the rank requirements: earn First Aid MB and you've automatically passed Second Class and First Class first aid requirements. Is this appropriate? It seems to be the way to go. There are other examples. Check with your District and see if there is a master MB Counselor list.If there isn't, harrass your commissioner and DE and DCuntil there is one. Your Troop probably has a cadre of MB Cs for their own use, too. Encourage your Scout to make his own arrangements ("mom taxi") to meet with the counslor, and be aware that the good ones will insist on "two deep" meetings, you may be called on to stay for the Counselor meetings. Your Scout would be at an advantage if he can get a buddy or two to work on the MB together. More fun too. Let your Scout set the pace. Do some fun ones first, the ones that play to the Scout's talents and interests. There will be time for the ER ones when the desire developes. YiS

1) We have the bravest, best equipped, best trained, most loyal "Citizen army" (note the adjective) in the world (singular scandals not withstanding). They go where they are asked to go and do the best job possible, under the conditions. (and why do we need so many civilian 'support staff'? Paid to what corporation?). And I thank God for the safe return of my step son. 2) I pray daily for President Bush, that his decisions will be correct, that he has all the information he needs to make those decisions, and that his health remains good. I also remember that Mr. Cheney is Vice president and Nancy Pelosi is the Speaker of the House and I again pray for Mr. Bushes health. 3) I marvel that when Iraq was invaded, the places that were guarded included the oil fields and the ministry of finance but not the museums or power plants or other civilian places. 4) I marvel that the armaments that couldn't be found previously are beginning to show up and are now killing innocent Iraqis. But the WMDs are still lacking. 5) 9-11 was a well defined event and the perpetrators were identified. None of them were Iraqi, if memory serves. 6) Saddam Hussein was originally "helped" to take power by...? 7) I recommend "War is a Racket" by USMC General Smedley Butler (awarded two Congressional Medals) for some thought provoking reading. Look it up on several web sites. 8) "We were knee deep in the big muddy and the big fool said to press on..." 9) Let us pray that we can educate our Scouts to not make the same mistakes that their grandparents made...

"!! Donner! Party of fifty! This way please!" And 'A Modest Proposal' by JSwift is related to the 'Rule of 25' because??? Some of BSA regimen gets, as Alice said,"curiouser and curiouser". Is the goal to encourage the boy in his famiy's and his chosen faith or what exactly?

I have always been surprised at GS organization (or lack of it). Some years ago, the Scouts at our school decided to have a "join Scouting " day. We arrnged with our neighboring Troops and Cub Packs and went to the GS leaders and invited them to join us. They told us (!true!)that they had enough girls and didn't want anymore to join! Can you imagine a Cub Pack reacting like that? I second the words of GWD. It would appear that the BS program depends on the program, and the GS program depends on the Leaders. If you can become the GS leader that breaks the pattern and helps to create the GS Troop that your girls want, I believe you will be doing a very good thing. I have a good friend that is a Scout Camp Director summers. Until his son is old enough (he's 3) he is his daughters Daisy Troop leader. A happier bunch of 6 year olds , (and mothers) you'd have to go far to see. They do more than make cookies and draw Valentines (tho they do those too), if you see, but study nature, go hiking and visit every firehouse and museum in the area. I can also recommend 4H.My son is both Scout and 4H club member. He revels at both. Then too, there's rumored to be a group, calls themselves "Campfire". I know little of them, but then... Nothing venture, nothing gained, eh? And as Bob the Tomato says, "It's for the kids". YiS

Beltloops are fun and the Cubs love to wear these pieces of mini armor. Let me point out a few things I noticed as a CM and as a CS Day Camp person: 1) The Pack should try to utilize BLs as a means to bring the Cubs together. Earn'em together. Play the team sports as a group. Take the boys skating, bowling, frisbeeing, etc. 2) Go to the Day Camp! Automatic BLs! And about the only place to earn some of them (archery for one, map and compass?.) 3) Don't dissuade the parents from helping their boy in the pursuit of the BL, but encourage them to include the other Cubs in the Den. It is a VERY good thing to have JohnnyCub pass the requirements for something before another adult besides their parent. 4) Nose around and find some "experts" that might help your Cubs pursue the more esoteric BLs (astronomy, chess, science, etc) 5) Organize a District "Cub Activity Day" and do the BL thing. We had one that included Geography, Ultimate Frisbee, Marbles, Chess, (and more I don't remember) and some other neat things like Neckerchief Slide making, Den Flag Making, and some really loud cheering!And a new patch! 6) And check the general requirements... You'll find that the Cub may earn the same BL more than once. Not unusual to earn the Archery BL each summer at the CSDC! Most packs I know do limit it to once a year, and the Cub is expected to show some improvement, yes? 7) Of course the awarding of BLs should be included in the Packs budget. BLs are an award the Cub can earn! But it should be understood that the BL is earned AT THE TIME, not because Johnny Cub did it last year on the family vacation, say. But again, if the family said Johnny Cub earned the BL, perhaps they can lend their expertise to let other Cubs earn it! 8) I've known some Cubs that pursue BLs like some BS pursue MBs. They end up wearing a seperate belt with the BLs on it! Whoa! KiS MiF!! YiS...fromwaybackwhen

Whoa!! Like connections! I'm impressed. YiS!

And what is the news from Chicago and Owasippe? Hello?

I must say that I only know my council number because one of my professionals mentioned it in passing at a District Committee meeting. It is used as short hand for THEIR correspondence. He also told me that he doesn't know of any master list of such, except at National. National Capital Area is #82. Just get the NAMES right, they tell me the secretaries will get the numbers right. YiS.

I don't know, never heard of any, but if the Jehovahs Witnesses wanted BSA recognition, (I think they have their own Sortascout organization) even tho they are a very large, well recognized religion, they would be REQUIRED to sponsor at least 25 BSA units? Hypotheticaly, a JW boy might join a BSA Pack/Troop/Crew/Ship and want to earn his faiths award, but since the JWs don't sponsor ANY BSA units, he could not earn a BSA sanctioned award? I got that right?

So (frinstance)the Buddhist award was accepted by BSA because (among other things) "at least" 25 Buddhist 'temples'(?term?) charter/sponsor a Scout unit? Is that right?