Sentinel947

Camps in my council are moving forward with planning. I'm still not optimistic they can or should open at all. They did extend the payment deadline till June 1st, and created a very generous refund/cancellation policy.

My state currently has a 14 day quarantine for people traveling back to the state from elsewhere. That might be possible for out of state staff. Not really possible for out of state campers.

I disagree, the PRC is absolutely fudging their numbers of infections and deaths.

Discovering permethrin was great for me. I used to have multiple ticks during backpacking trips, now I'm unlucky if I find even one.

Agreed about Bush II. He took it seriously. Obama had done some good work continue what Bush II had done. First place I'd point the finger at was the Chinese Communist Party. They have absolutely minimized their reporting, and probably falsified their numbers. They never let a good crisis go to waste. Notice nobody is talking about Hong Kong protests or the Uighers in concentration camps anymore. Western Countries and most citizens weren't taking the virus very seriously in January or early February. US Military intelligence knew there were issues in China in NOVEMBER... There doesn't seem to be much effort on the part of State or Federal officials or agencies to acquire PPE and supplies until the virus was already here. The Trump Administration acted like it couldn't come here, and when he wanted to take reasonable steps like stopping flights from China, the Democrats said no. There is still no national stay at home order, so states like mine (Ohio) are locking down, we aren't building much immunity, and we can't go out of lock down until other states follow our lead, otherwise a traveler is just going to bring it here and we'll restart the surge process. Many governors/mayors deserve blame too. They saw what was happening in Wuhan or Seoul and even when there were known cases in their cities and states, they didn't take action. In Italy and France, you had Prime Ministers telling the public to continue on with their lives. Many Mayors, include NYC's de Blasio, as late as March 11th, was telling people to go live their lives. Even know Trump is spending more time listening to his idiot talking heads on the TV and radio than medical professionals. I'll cut people some slack, for not being prepared back in December or January, because this is an unprecedented situation, but at the very least the Federal Government should have been better prepared, especially when Bush II's administration had created a plan, and US Army Intelligence had been sending warnings to Congress and the Executive branch since November. With a bit more planning, we could have had an outcome more like South Korea's. Instead, we've got a long way to go.

This could be spun off into a delightful issues and politics thread. This virus has been a multi national failure of multiple governments and health agencies, trickling down to local leadership being unprepared or in denial.

Agreed. We don't want to let everybody back out at once with no restrictions, We'll just have a no "peak infections" a few months from now. Look to China as an example. One, their infection and death rate is definitely higher than reported, and while some activities have resumed, they are still not doing mass events like sporting events.

I went to NT about a decade or so ago. Used Altima boots and they held up fine. I don't remember my feet being wet to too big a deal. After we set up camp, everybody took off their wet socks and either got in the tent or sat around camp in dry socks and camp shoes.

My local CVS clinic is still doing physicals. I think it's a bad idea, but they were open, I have HSA money to spend, and as an Assistant Course Director for NYLT, if I'm not available we are not having camp if it's even possible. I jumped on the opportunity to get my physical done and out of the way.

Yea. It's easy for me to say that camp should be reopened when the health authorities say it safe to do so, but I'm not a parent. So my (non existent) kids don't have to live with the consequences. That being said, if the government allows childcare facilities/ schools to reopen and the restrictions that will still be in place allow for something like a camp, and the Council can pull off the logistics, I see no reason why not to have it. If we get to a reasonable time horizon before camp and it's clear it won't be safe, or the restrictions left in place won't make it manageable, it should be cancelled. I would hope council pros are in touch with health professionals and their local governments to make those decisions. Right now, at least in Ohio, if camp was next week, it'd be cancelled. We'll see what June holds.

How can any reasonable individuals have ill will towards the council or camp if the virus situation means some weeks of camp has to be cancelled in June, but the council and health authorities deem it safe to proceed with later weeks in July? As long as they get a refund, it's a literal act of God. Given the logistical challenges of putting together a camp, training and hiring staff, I could see the whole summer cancelled rather than partial cancellations, but we'll see.

Interesting. Dan Beard pushed back the early bird deadline to 5/15. Our Stay at home order runs until 5/1.

@Ronmass welcome to the forum. My thoughts on summer camps is that they are not likely to happen this summer. At least not in my area, at least not on time. Maybe in July or August. A couple things have to happen: The area isn't facing a COVID-19 outbreak, and the state has lifted it's stay at home order, and the CDC recommends people return to work/school. Campers from out of state or people who have recently traveled (two weeks- month) are not permitted to attend. Families have the financial ability to send a kid to camp. Council has the financial ability to pay for camp. Council has recruited and hired staff. There are so many variables at this point, it's hard to make a blanket statement. I think by the end of April most councils will have a better understanding of their local, state and regional situations and we'll start to see decisions made.

The virus hasn't hit my area too hard yet. I just scheduled a physical at a CVS minute clinic. I shredded my part C from last year... So I have to get one, otherwise if Camp does happen, I'm likely screwed.

Been to Philmont twice. First things first, your 18 year old is an adult, must have YPT and cannot tent with youth. Whether you have him play a youth or adult role is up to you and him, but he must always follow YPT. Just like if he was an over 18 participant on NYLT Staff, OA, or a Venturing crew. In my 2015 trek, we had 5 adult males. 7 male youth. We had 2 adults share a tent. 2 went solo(one of our adults was 6'6, and we didn't have a two man tent that would fit him and another adult), and 1 adult shared a tent with his son. The 6 other youth split into two man tents. Don't break YPT with the tent situation, and don't over think it. My gut is Philmont would prefer adults to tent solo over youth tenting solo due to the buddy system. I'd put the 6 youth in two man tents. I'd have the adult female sleep in her own tent. And have the adult men buddy up in two man tents unless the 18 year old or the adults are uncomfortable sharing a tent. In that case, you'd have two more solo tents.

Ohio actually has it's own model online. Ohio State and the Cleveland Clinic: https://coronavirus.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/covid-19/home/dashboard/forecast-model/ . It's still way to early to say where this is going to go. I'm mentally prepared that camp will be cancelled, that way I can be surprised and pleased if we go forward.

I can't tell if the BSA is arguing that the Councils are separate and should not be sued, or are part of the settlement with National and cannot be sued directly.

I had a email a few years ago from one of the sons of Muammar Gaddafi. He needed urgent help distributing money for cancer research and I naturally wanted to help. Still waiting for my 1 million dollars to come through...

I doubt it. This is an unprecedented situation so it's hard to say what the future holds. Councils will wait until they have to make that decision. Lets take my home state of Ohio for example: This is the latest model from University of Washington: https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections This is assuming our state continues to have the discipline to stay in the very deep shutdown we are in currently. Ohio has been one of the nations leaders in aggressive response tactics to the virus. We're also fortunate as "flyover" country, that we haven't had as many travelers to spread the virus to us. According to this model the peak of infections for the State will likely be mid April. Ohio has closed our schools until May 1st. There should be very few cases by June. So far so good. For my council, NYLT starts June 6th. Summer Camp Starts June 14th. Here are the challenges: Is the model accurate? Will we still have a stay at home order come late May/Early June when cases are declining? Or do we need to stay home till cases hit zero for a certain period of time? Will there be a second surge of infections over the Summer? Will testing be more widespread by May? Will there be an anti-body test to determine who was exposed to the virus and now has immunity to it? Does this give us enough time to recruit, hire, train staff? What about getting participant sign ups and collecting money from them? Buying supplies? Sending staff to National Camp School? Will all the staff and participants be able to get their annual physicals done? Will the camp be able to be inspected by the State/County Health Department? Ohio is in a tough spot economically. Many businesses were closed two weeks ago, and all non essential business were closed on the 23rd. Many Troop leaders might have to use PTO at their jobs to keep some income coming in while they are off work without pay. They may not be able to spare holding it for the summer. How will Troops prepare for Camp if they can't meet until late May? How will we handle out of State Campers from States that are still battling the virus when camp starts? The virus will be still active in the United States by June, short of a national shutdown order from the Trump Administration asap. That shutdown order is unlikely to happen. Will the School systems extend the school year to catch up on academic work? Many states have rural or inner city areas where home internet access is unstable or not strong enough for online school. Online education will continue to widen the gap between high performing school districts/students and lower performing districts/students. There are a ton of unanswered questions here, and its still far too early to answer most of them. I could see a shortened summer camp season for us, if things follow the model I cited above. If the situation deteriorates here in Ohio, I doubt we'd be able to have camp at all.

That might be a moot point if COVID 19 testing doesn't improve and be more widely used, and if an effective antibody test is not created and distribute to test for immunity.

I'm not sure if this is a death kneel for units. Eligible youth cannot really do any other activities during this time period either. I think most folks are going to go back to doing whatever activities they were doing before the shutdown, with some variation due to some folks losing their jobs and not having solid finances. I think the 2008 financial crisis is probably a more reasonable scenario to look to for an idea about where numbers, camps, and donations are headed. Plenty of areas across the country will have minimal deaths, and the damage will be mostly financial. Some areas will have great financial damage, and significant loss of life. It's harder to say what will come out of those areas.

As I read more, and get more data from work (I work at a hospital), I'm starting to think that some regions may be opened back by June and some will not. Social distancing compliance as well as population density plays a key role in all of this. In My home state, Ohio, our leaders have been very aggressive about closing things and mandating that business close. Our peak of infections is projected to be in Mid May, and we will only somewhat exceed hospital capacity during the peak. I do not think we'll have much of an early summer here if the projections prove true, and our "peak" of cases will be during that time. Places that have already kicked off, like New York City, New Orleans, Seattle, or Atlanta, might be mostly done with it by summer, but will have a catastrophic wave over their healthcare systems, and have many preventable deaths.

It's definitely based on things you search for outside the forum. The ads are not terrible on a computer, but are overly intrusive on mobile.

My Troop, I'd say it's in order: High Adventure, Weekend Backpacking, Summer Camp, and in a distant 4th place NYLT.

Yea my NYLT staff is doing some virtual training and presentation practice, but it's likely with the course taking place in early June, that it will be cancelled.