Sentinel947

When those of us here on the forums gripe about Family Scouting, we aren't talking about girls, or families renting a campsite at camp outside of summer camp. We're talking about the BSA encouraging families to attend monthly troop outings. Most of us have seen it in our units, or others. It's normally a mess of helicopter parenting and demotivated youth. It breaks down the patrol method, and stifles team development and learning of self sufficiency. Nothing wrong with a parent coming along to volunteer or observe. I imagine the idea of having families camp at the summer camp while the p

Agreed. Lets rip the bandaid off. We need to put these cases behind us for good, and protect the CO's from potential liability. I hope my council participates in the settlement. Ideally try to keep local camp properties if the council can afford them. I'd be sad to see us lose the HA bases, but they aren't the meat and potatoes like summer camp is. I share @MattRs concern. The program has always been about character building and citizenship development. Camping and outdoor fun is important because it (along with the patrol method) is how we accomplish these bigger goals. If Scoutin

I suppose that makes sense. Although I think it will also hit NYLT pretty hard. Any idea when these changes will be communicated? The BSA already struggles to utilize and retain young adults in Scouting. I do not have any optimism that Councils will come up with roles suitable for these young adults, or use/treat them appropriately. More likely, this is a group of young adults we will lose, and I can only hope they'll return when they have their own kids. @Eagle94-A1 what do you think? After this rule change, given that these 18-20 year old's do not count as acceptable supervision f

Did they say why they are making this change? It's likely going to gut Venturing and the OA. These over 18-21 are already registered as adults and have taken YPT. I don't see what the issue is having them as they are currently.

Seriously, why offer camp at that point?

Interesting. What responsibility does a parent have for their own child if they send them someplace knowing that the coronavirus is out there and a danger? Can I sue the grocery store if I get coronavirus there? If I had kids, and I took them to the grocery store and they got sick, can I sue the store? (Assuming I can prove it?) At what point are we responsible for ourselves and our families? We all know the virus is out there, and it's a risk, and anybody who can promise 100% safety from it is a liar. If 100% safety from the virus is the standard, then nothing is opening until there is a vacc

Would your lawyer friend sue if their kid got bronchitis or the flu from camp? If camp opened against health codes, or violated established codes, I could see a lawsuit. Otherwise, being able to sue people because I got an illness from them sounds ridiculous (although I am not a lawyer.) How would they prove the kid got COVID at camp and didn't have it asymptomatically before camp? Personally, I think camp and HA should be cancelled, but the liability piece is fascinating.

Summer residence camps in Dan Beard Council (Cincinnati, Ohio) were cancelled. There will be some sort of day camp option announced in the next few weeks.

Camp Friedlander in Cincinnati Ohio will be announcing their summer plans on Monday.

Agreed. I'm not sure what @David CO's comment about primitive camping meant. I've taken a number of Scout crews backpacking, and there was no potable water or restrooms. It is primitive. We used hand sanitizer and biodegradable dish soap. For cub groups, given that they aren't backpacking, even in a primitive campground (no potable water), it'd be possible to use a handwashing station like @5thGenTexan's.

I'm not sure what the issue is. For trailer type camping I love the set up @5thGenTexan posted. If it's backpacking, at least on my trips, everybody brings a small bottle of hand sanitizer. Use it before eating or after using the cat hole.

I don't believe that 66% are intentionally lying. People's reporting of their own events are notoriously unreliable in a medical setting... "How'd you get this injury?" "How many alcoholic beverages do you drink in a typical week?" "Do you have thoughts about self-harm?" Much depends how the question is asked. "Have you been following the stay at home order?" Answer "Yes.". Reality: They have to go to the grocery store, they go outside for exercise and pass their neighbors doing the same. They visit with family members they do not live with, they visit with neighbors they don't live with.

People would never lie to their doctors/health providers about their compliance with medical advice/the law! Would they? 😄

Not only that, but most campgrounds are reopening under the requirement that the groups are less than 10 people, and that all campers are from the same family/household.

It has to be... how do you sell something if nobody knows it's for sale?

Basically a fire sale.... Sold at any price. They must already have a prospective buyer lined up...

Only if the wilderness areas and campgrounds open up. Many of them have been closed because of the mobs of people who were flooding into them with nothing else to do.

Oh come on now... Scouting has been through wars, threat of nuclear annihilation, and polio scares. At some point, when social distancing is relaxed and public gatherings are allowed, Scouts will get back with their troops and camp. And before you say that the BSA will keep things virtual after the crisis, people won't pay long term for virtual Scouting once the real outdoor activities are available.

I'm ok with considering a virtual troop meeting to be a troop meeting and requiring two adults, but I can also see how that logic could be extended to any time two Scouts are doing anything together virtually, and that would be absurd. As far for "fun dying." Group dynamics absolutely change when participants in the group change. I do not agree that 9/10 times if youth change their behavior around adults, that they were acting inappropriately. Youth have to adjust their communication styles around adults, and they will also be more wary of being contradicted or corrected by adults. Fu

Yea, that's a tough call. Has some big impacts on a range of people. Probably in the next week or two they'll need to make that decision. @RememberSchiff had a great post, that I'm going to shamelessly turn into a Scoutmaster minute if I needed. This would not be the first time in the history of Scouting that there has been a disease outbreak that closed camps.

I'll bite on this one. I'm making an assumption that you are referring to NYLT. I can't speak for other councils other than my own, and I'm definitely biased. I went to NYLT as a Scout, and have been on staff as an adult. This summer would be the third summer, but I doubt we're going to have any courses. The program isn't feasible with social distancing, even if we were allowed. As an assistant Scoutmaster, I've seen the effect of NYLT on my Scouts. As a fresh out of high school ASM, I used many of the skills I learned at NYLT to help my newer to Scouting scoutmaster team build a better vision

Elitts, are you pointing to a specific BSA posting somewhere, or just the GTSS requirement of two adults at scouting events being applied to online settings?

Good topic @Eagledad I think the aims and methods are mostly fine as they are. I agree adding leadership development is unnecessary, but here we are. In some ways the aims and methods are a marketing document as well as a statement of organizational goals. I liked @DuctTape's comment and I don't have a ton to add to it. The methods are how we achieve the aims. This creates a very simple litmus test for us. (And maybe I'm underthinking this.) "Does what we are about to do with this method accomplish our aims and how?" For example, creating online merit badge clinics, and packing the

There are plenty folks involved in this program who can't see the forest for the trees.

Great research! Thanks for sharing!