scoutldr

I don't know what the answer is. A while back in a different thread, I proposed charging "fee for service"...Tour permit-5 bucks. Advancement report-10 bucks. Eagle App-50 bucks. That type of thing. Of course, that would just lead to units not getting Tour Permits or filing advancement reports. That's a problem now when they're free! Having the books opened for all to see would be interesting. The IRS Form 990 for a council is public record, but only lists salaries >50K, which in my council is only two people. The other numbers are hard to decipher as to income and outgo. An annual report would be great, but I haven't seen one of those in 10 years. Even the local theater company lists its benefactors in the playbill. Is there waste in a council...sure...just like any other organization. The Executive Board is entrusted to keep a watch on that. But I have to wonder...are they doing their job, or are they just there for a feather in their resume?

Ahhh, the old ODL "hot pants". Made one talk a few octaves higher, too! I'm glad the did away with the cuff zipper. I have a 28" inseam and can't wear ANYTHING off the shelf. I like a cuff that can be hemmed.

That episode was tame compared to the one that aired (in this market) immediately before it featuring Oprah.

As long as they are on the table on the night of the EBOR, what's the diff? I find the letters to be silly anyway, and a waste of time...ESPECIALLY the one from the parent. The one from the SM is redundant, since he/she has already had the SM conference and signed the Eagle app indicating approval.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

The "approval signatures" required on the Eagle Project "plan" are: - Committee Member - Religious Institution, school or community representative - District Advancement representative - Scoutmaster/Coach/Advisor The last one is for Troop SM, Varsity Team Coach or Venuting Advisor...all equivalent Unit leader positions. It does NOT mean "Eagle Advisor", which is usally the "committee member". So, in order for the project to proceed, the SM does indeed need to "approve" the Eagle project plan. I agree with the others...if there was no intent to grant an SM conference or EBOR, then why did they approve the project? That's just a game of "gotcha" and has no place in Scouting.

Pet peeve/rant. At the risk of sounding petty, I resent it when my donation is handled with carelessness/disregard. One year, I donated in monthly installments, and the council's recordkeeping was slipshod at best. I never did get a receipt for the full amount I paid (for tax purposes). Like other councils, if one donates at least the "cost of scouting" (~$126), the donor is supposed to get an FOS CSP and a coffee mug. More often than not, my patch/mug never shows up. It's a small thing, but I am a serious collector. I don't wear the CSP, but it goes in my patch box to be sold for a buck by my widow at my Estate sale. Point is, if you say you're going to do something, then DO it. I feel taken for granted.

Just say "no".

Yeah, what Annie said. "He is serious about no women camping." Sorry, but he doesn't get a vote on that issue, unless as Beavah said, it's your CO's policy. If he chooses to harm the troop over that by leaving and taking other leaders with him, then he's probably not a good role model anyway. That being said, I personally would discourage ANY parent from shadowing their new Scout...at least for the first year. He needs a chance to "be one of the guys" and assimilate into the troop. I, and everyone here, acted differently when our parent was with us. Didn't have near as much fun. But in the end, if she insists, you can't stop her from attending and "observing". And no daughter. That's why they have Girl Scouts.

First thing I would do is appoint one of the OA members to be the "OA Troop Representative" which is a POR in the troop. It is his job to "talk up" the OA among the troop members and get them motivated to participate, leading by example. As to Brotherhood, one of the metrics for making "Quality Lodge" is the Brotherhood Conversion Rate. So, if memory serves, SM approval is not required, and only requires you to have 10 months since your Ordeal, and present yourself at an Ordeal (or Fellowship) as a Brotherhood candidate. There are some other requirements to pass, which I won't reveal here, but don't seem to hold anyone back.

I won't jinx it by congratulating you too soon, Ms. Summer, however it seems we are on the path now. Another thing to start considering, should the EBOR be successful...who will conduct the ECOH and present the award? I think it's a sure bet that Mr. SM and Mr. CC will not be present, even if cordially invited. But first things first...

Yes, FOS funds salaries. So does Popcorn. Where else would the money come from?

"The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons." Hmmmm...if it weren't for terrorists in 1776, we'd all be writing with a funny accent like Eamonn. Oh...gotta go...time for afternoon tea.

I think it's in your Scoutnet record, if I'm not mistaken.

Nursing homes are using Wii for physical therapy. Perhaps we geezers can get a physical therapy square knot!

If that had happened to me, they would never see another dime of my money, and I would let the Council Executive Board know why.

I have been struck recently by the way this forum has taken on an air of respect, kindness, and, well, Scoutlike behavior. There was one recent notable speedbump, but we got past that. I appreciate the way we can respectfully discuss and disagree, without becoming disagreeable. As someone said once, regardless of our opinions, beliefs and passions, there is one passion that we all share, which is a desire to instill in young men and women the values of Scouting so that we will leave the world a little better than we found it. I respect you all, and admire the dedication to our organization. I will be away for a few days visiting my 87 year old uncle up in OGE's neck of the woods. If you see a short, fat old guy with a grey beard lurking in the Minsi Trails Scout shop, that will be me. My laptop's hard drive is dying, so I probably won't be back on the forum until Monday. I can't wait to hear how mdsummer45's saga turns out with her soon to be Eagle son. Good Luck.

Sorry if I offended, ScoutMom. Not intentional. It's just that no self-respecting Cub Scout I know would be caught dead in a Brownie uniform. They have cooties, ya know! That is, until they get yabos. ;-)

Wow, GoldFox...I'm impressed. For some reason, I envisioned something more than 27 pages of plain English. Kinda anticlimactic.

But then, Baden, the BSA would cease to exist when the major religious bodies withdrew their substantial financial support. Vicki, well put. But we'll have to agree to disagree. Don't we (BSA) also say that what constitutes a Scout's "duty to God" is a matter to be decided among the Scout, his family and church? I interpret that to mean if the WELS states what it expects from members of its chartered units as far as duty and beliefs, they are free to do so, and the prospective members can accept it...or not. There is a troop down the street that will welcome them. If the BSA were to presume to tell me what my "duty to God" was, I would hand them my resignation in a heartbeat. As long as I don't declare myself to be an atheist, they are happy to take my money. WELS could add additional membership requirements if it so chose.

I just said I'd meet you there...not spend the night with you ;-). But there is a mountain stream at the bottom of the hill suitable for bathing. A little chilly, though.

I didn't know that about military uniforms, Gunny. Being an amateur military uniform cop as well, I like to point out the bloopers in the movies...like the scene in Top Gun where the AirBoss in one scene is wearing polyester khakis with ribbons (not authorized for shipboard wear) and in the next shot the ribbons are gone. I work in a military organization and especially like the guys who get dressed in the mirror and come in with everything reversed. I found a young E-2 like that in the chow hall and just quietly whispered to him that he'd better make a trip to the head and get squared away before "the Chief" sees him! He was very appreciative!

Anyone else seen the commercial with the boys dressed up in Brownie vests going to the PWD? How insulting! I don't even remember what it was advertising.

Thanks, pack and Scouter760. I know you're right. But it's hard to let go of "the baby" that you created and see it fold. Pack...my inlaws have a rustic cabin in Nelson County, VA within spittin' distance of the AT. If you need a place to bed down (real bed!) and cook a hot meal, let me know. Not sure if I'm up to the trail, but I can meet you there with a hot cup of coffee and re-provision you. No electricity, but a real outhouse and gas stove! Next time I'm up there I'll get the lat/long coordinates. Closest landmark is "The Priest".

Following on what John and Beavah wrote, I have seen many examples of sectarian Scouting. When our district RT and OA meetings were held in the social hall of the LDS church, we were forbidden from providing refreshments that contained caffeine (coffee and soda) and smoking was prohibited on the church property. Were they forcing me to practice their religion? I felt yes, although it didn't kill me to drink caffeine-free soda. Meetings are now held elsewhere. We have a mega-Pack and troop chartered to a Presbyterian church (of the charismatic variety - I don't know the term). Their troop neckers have the Christian cross prominently displayed, every meeting is opened and closed with prayer and Cubs from their Pack mostly ONLY cross over to their troop. If a Jewish or Muslim kid wanted to join his friend's unit, I doubt he would be made to feel very welcomed. We also had a Ship chartered to a Muslim group that had ONLY muslim members. They practiced their faith, including prayers 5x a day facing Mecca. Not to imply there's anything wrong with any of that. But I have to agree with Beav, that the WELS is being very short-sighted. Just because the BSA accomodates Jews and Muslims, doesn't mean that the WELS would be abdicating their faith by chartering a unit.

As has been stated, the ASMs don't have the authority to hire and fire anyone. Only the COR and CC can do that. (Both must sign and approve adult applications). What you have written don't seem to be "firing offenses" to me. Just adaptations on delivering the program. NOT the BSA recommended method, to be sure, however, nothing illegal or immoral. Seems to me your only options are to have a quiet, confidential chat with the CC, and if that gets no reaction, your options are clear. 1) continue to work within the system to slowly affect change, or 2) find or start a new troop. As long as your troop keeps its numbers up (FOS, advancement and membership), the Council won't care. And you DO have a committee with a CC. They are listed on your troop printout. If they are not doing their jobs, either, then maybe your options are more clear.