scoutldr

Having been in the movement since 1962 (Eagle '70), some pet peeves: 1. No good ole' boy networks. Allow everyone the same opportunity to serve at such events as OA, Jambo and Philmont Treks...(youth and adults). 2. Recruit vols at the District/Council level who are actually interested in and capable of doing the job. Dont' just "fill in the blanks" with names. For example, I will have little respect for a Unit Commish who was recruited "off the streets" and has no experience OR expertise to share with me. 3. Ease up on the fund raising. In my opinion, FOS should be focused on the local community and business leaders, and should be the SE's job to make and nurture those contacts. Leave the families alone. They have enough to do paying for summer camp, camping gear, unit dues, outrageously expensive uniforms, and $30 tins of popcorn. 4. Pros who don't micromanage. Your job is to recruit good people, then get out of their way and let them work. 5. Remember that volunteers are doing this because they want to and not because it's our job. We may not do it the same way you would, or as fast as you would, but this is an extracurricular activity for us, NOT the job that feeds our families. Our priorities are not the same as yours, and you are not our supervisor. This is how we choose to spend our precious, limited leisure time, but if it becomes too hard or too stressful, we can walk away, and many do for that reason. 6. More parental involvement at every level. Your 12 year old scout doesnt' care if you donate to FOS...but he would like you to show up for his Court of Honor, not make him (and his SM) wait 30 minutes for a ride home after the troop meeting and go camping with him (or at least help drive) once in a while. 7. Fewer meetings that serve no purpose. (See #5.) Have an agenda and stick to it. Conduct business by e-mail whenever possible. (The "Professional's Minute" should be just that.) 8. Have a great Council and district web site and KEEP IT CURRENT...this serves as good PR as well as making more resources available to more volunteers. 9. Keep the Scout Shop stocked with stuff! Too many times I have stood in front of a Pack meeting or Troop COH and said, "Johnny WOULD be getting his (name the badge) tonight, but the Scout SHop was out of them." 10. Don't compromise high standards just to keep the "numbers" up.

I am amazed that a simple question generated so much passionate discussion...but pleasantly so. I think we can all agree that safety of our young charges is the #1 priority in any Scouting function. As one who has conducted swim checks every summer, taught swimming, lifesaving, BSA Lifeguard, former Red Cross WSI, yada, yada, yada, I have to side with the aquatics experts here. To quote the G2SS which was found in a previous post, "The swimmer must be able to cover distance with a strong, confident stroke. The 75 yards must not be the outer limit of the swimmer's ability; completion of the distance should give evidence of sufficient stamina to avoid undue risks. Dog-paddling and strokes repeatedly interrupted and restarted are not sufficient; " Obviously, the term, "strong, confident", is subjective and up to the expert conducting the evaluation to determine. I don't know how BSA could make it more specific. So, to me, the Scout who cannot swim without the use of "aids" such as goggles and nose clips, and comes up sputtering, clenching his eyes closed so that he can't see where he's going, thus interrupting his stroke because he can't breathe with proper rhythm (i.e., stopping in mid-stream to get his composure), then he fails the test in my pool. He did not meet the requirement. He is not swimming in a "strong, confident" manner. And I'll be happy to work the rest of the week with him to get to that point. The scout may shed a few tears and the Leader may have a few words with me, but when the scout finally does get that buddy tag colored in, it's a much more satisfying accomplishment. I do the same with BSA Lifeguard candidates...you'd be amazed how many show up for class with their Swimming and Lifesaving MBs on their sash that can't make a decent stroke across the pool. I don't run a "gimme" program. Go back and learn to swim first, then we'll talk about becoming a Lifeguard.

The most complete site I have found is http://usscouts.org/awards/knots2.html You might consider the Scoutmaster's Award of Merit...although designed for new SMs, if he has never received it, it would be nice. In my Council, adults fend for themselves...I try to provide blank forms for award applicaitions in all training sessions, but it's up to the Scouter to track his/her progress and get the paperwork submitted. There are two sides to that approach...one is that adults are expected to be adults and are not spoonfed, but the other side is very few of them bother to apply, either out of ignorance, or because of humility, having a "fruit salad" on their chest is just not important to them (that's not a criticism...just an observation.) I have an ASM who is a decorated Vietnam Special Forces veteran...I had to fill out his Scouter Training Award and submit it for him...because he was "just not into that stuff."

Any source of combustion will produce carbon MONoxide...a silent killer. I would not gamble my own or my Scouts' lives on whether we have "adequate ventilation" or not. You won't know for sure until the next morning and you count how many wake up. Most young scouts will button up a tent so tight that NOTHING will get in or out, not even monsters, bears, or AIR. It's just not worth the gamble, in my opinion. And for those of you familiar with the old white gas/Coleman fuel catalytic heaters, the "catalyst" was a layer of asbestos cloth. Not sure what the new ones are made of.

The prudent employer will not sponsor events which serve alcohol. Too much liability. If they do, the prudent employee will not imbibe to the point of jeopardizing his/her career. In situations like that, there is no such thing as being "off duty". Your behavior and judgment are being constantly observed and evaluated. As regards the religious accomodation question, I will defer to the attorney, and keep my opinions private.

Great question, RMV, but recommend you start a new topic. I'll wait till then to jump in.

Great! I just bought an obsolete book! The least they could do is put them on a half price clearance rack! &^%#*&^%(#%&^%#!@^*(*&)(#*$&)*&@#^%!(@&^%#

Sounds like a Silver Beaver to me... http://www.scouting.org/forms/92-103.pdf

PS: Record cards for all awards are also in the publication "Leadership Training Committee Guide", Pub 34169E, available at your Council Center.

Here's one site...in .pdf files http://www.indianhead.org/Northwest/BoyTrain.html Scroll all the way to the bottom. They also have the CUb awards under "Cub Scout Training"

At our recent UofS, I attended a Life to Eagle seminar...very well taught. The instructor emphasized that, on the Eagle app, a total of 180 days in one or more leadership positions, (since the date of the Life BoR) is what they look for. There is no minimum tenure in any one position. Also, it is not necessary to list more than 180 days. If they see 180, the box is checked. No extra credit. It is logical that the most responsible positions would be listed (i.e., SPL rather than Den Chief), however that is NOT a requirement.

While a First Class Scout, serve actively for 4 months in one or more of the following positions of responsibility (or carry out a Scoutmaster-assigned leadership project to help the troop): Boy Scout troop Patrol leader, assistant senior patrol leader, senior patrol leader, troop guide, Order of the Arrow troop representative, den chief, scribe, librarian, historian, quartermaster, bugler, junior assistant Scoutmaster, chaplain aide, or instructor. THese are Troop positions, not Patrol positions, unless it qualifies as a "leadership project assigned by the Scoutmaster to help the Troop."

Or an anatomy major! If the organism is that infectious, a nose clip won't help...it will enter through the mouth and then go up into the nose, since they are all connected. That would not meet the definition of "safe swimming area" as required in Safe Swim Defense.

If I remember my training correctly, Den Leaders (whether married to the CC or not) are NOT members of the Pack Committee and should not be called upon to chair the meetings. If they attend Committee meetings at all, they should not have a vote. One of the other committee members should be designated as "Acting Chairman" for that meeting, or the meeting rescheduled.

Welcome, Sparkie! Met you last night in the chat room! I was amazed at the ton of information this resource provides. It's like an instant Roundtable! Some of the threads get pretty emotional and intense sometimes, so a thick skin is required...it's not for the faint of heart! Scout Oath and Law are in effect, and we try to keep things on a friendly, professional level. YIS

//shudder// nldscout is correct. As a BSA Lifeguard Counsellor and Aquatics Instructor, my interpretaion is that tube=raft. Let's apply the common sense test here, guys. Do any of you carry enough personal liability insurance to quibble over semantics? In fact, I would say a raft affords more protection and stability than a tube would. Cub (including Webelos) afloat activities are limited to lakes or ponds and then only with suitable conditions (i.e, good weather, warm water, PFDs, suitable supervision, Swimmers, SAFE EQUIPMENT (NOT "leaking air"), etc.) Safety First!

The best way to learn a topic or skill is to have to teach it! Tell the older scouts that, by virtue of being First Class or above, their obligation is to become a teacher, not a learner. (By having to teach, they will have to learn it themselves, but don't tell them that!) That's the way they train surgeons...watch one, do one, teach one.

What you have are the library editions with the hard covers. These will be of interest to Scout memorabilia collectors, and as with everything, value depends on condition, age (copyright date) and the rarity of the pamphlet. For example, the pamphlet for "Pathfinding" may be more valuable than "Camping". "The "negroe library" stamps may, in addition, make them attractive to collectors of black history memorabilia. From what I have seen on eBAY, a starting price of, say, 9.99 each would not be out of line. Just make sure and describe them thoroughly and honestly, and a picture is worth a thousand words! Good luck, LeV.

Put it into perspective...my boss is burying his 20 year old son this week...died after a year of chemo battling an inoperable brain cancer. He was a Life Scout. Focus on what's important in life and let the rest go.

I have a 100% cotton shirt that I got quite by accident off of eBay...it is definitely NOT wash and wear, but when it's starched and pressed, it's sharp. I have a question ... how much "hands on" involvement should a DE have in things like District Committee meetings and sub-committee functions...I have gotten the impression from my training and this forum that they are just supposed to be there for "advice and policy guidance", not to do things like prepare and deliver committee reports, schedule training, dominate the meeting, etc. As a newbie to the district level, it appears that the Dist Chairman is just a figurehead, and the DE is the one running the show, since a)he seems to have the time and energy to do it, and b) he's impatient with us vols who have to relegate scouting issues to a lower priority than our real jobs and can't devote 8 hrs a day. I also get the impression that his job or at least his annual appraisal may be in jeopardy if certain things don't get done (like Quality District, popcorn, FOS, etc), so in desperation, he's decided to micromanage and do it himself. At one time I had actually considered changing careers and becoming a pro Scouter, but not now...it looks way too stressful for the money.

Even within our Council, the DEs and DDs play "musical chairs" every year or two...once you develop a relationship with one, he/she gets "transferred" to another district and you have to start over. Of course, that can be a good thing, too, depending on who you get. As I said in a different forum, "you can sit around my campfire any time...even if you are a professional." ;-)

It seems strange that the words "cabin" and "camping" are used in the same sentence. Our forefathers would laugh their fool heads off! (not that I like to be cold any more than the next guy...I just don't call it "camping"!)

I don't want to see you leave the program, Eamonn...but I, too, pray that "you get the help you need" to modify your behavior so you can be a better role model and so your kids don't have to watch you die a slow, painful death, as I had to. I realize tobacco is an addictive drug...what I don't understand is why you keep buying them if you want to quit. Does someone handcuff you and drag you to the store? I also don't understand (and I'm really trying), why smokers think the world needs to adapt to their addiction, but they don't want the same consideration shown to alcoholics or cocaine addicts (legal arguments aside). I am incensed, as a supervisor, that I have to allow employees to leave their jobs several times a day for "smoke breaks" of 15-20 minutes every 2 hours, but I don't get the same consideration if I am late for work. I don't understand why camps need to have "smoking rules" other than "this addictive drug is not allowed on Council property, either."

Just curious, Eamonn, why do you apply different rules to alcohol than you do tobacco? I have to wonder, if beer-drinking volunteers got up in arms and threatened to quit and withdraw financial support unless they were provided the same dispensation as smokers (special "drinking areas" out of the line of sight), what would the response be.

Some troops will provide a life membership in NESA...the National Eagle Scout Association.