scoutldr

Welcome to the forums. A couple of observations and opinions: 1. If a CO wants to restrict membership to those of its own faith, they are free to do that, then they can "keep kosher" all they want (not to assume we are talking about Judaism, since other faiths also have dietary restrictions). But if they have signed a charter and welcome members of any faith, then they must adhere to the policies of the BSA, which is to respect the differences and practice of the faiths of all members. 2. If the troop committee (which does not include the SM and ASMs) disagrees with the policies of the CO, they should work through the COR to resolve their differences. Failing that, the District/Unit Commissioner and DE should discuss the issue with the IH. The charter is a contract between the BSA and the CO...parents and troop leadership are not parties to that contract. That being said, I'm not sure under what circumstances a parent should be contacting national leaders of their chartered partners over a troop dispute. That probably won't win any friends. 3. As you have learned, the CO "owns" the troop, its money and equipment. If the CO is adamant that it will be "their way or the highway", then you have two feet you can vote with, but that's about the only real power you have. Be prepared to move to another unit or start your own, but you probably won't be taking any funds or equipment (or unit number) with you unless the CO agrees. 4. We have a unit in our council comprised of Muslims. If a scout doesn't want to face East and pray to Allah five times a day and memorize the Koran, they need to find another unit...not expect the CO to change their ways. We also have LDS units who do not camp on Sundays and do not permit female leaders. Everyone knows who they are and if you don't want to pack up and leave camp at sundown Saturday, there are plenty of other units to choose from. In fact, we have had LDS parents move their sons to non-LDS troops because of these policies. 5. Yes, I think you may have overstepped. If the SM, ASMs and/or PLC have issues, they should be presented to the Troop Committee for resolution. The CC then interacts with the COR to represent the wishes of the Committee...not individual committee members. Good Luck. (This message has been edited by scoutldr)(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

My opinion...pro rate the dues for all (perhaps monthly dues with a free month if paid yearly in a lump sum)...and sell more popcorn! Also, sounds like your Pack needs to trim expenses...never heard of having to "rent" a PWD track. In my district, most Packs have their own, and those that don't borrow from other packs. Those electronic gizmos are nice, but not necessary.

To answer Lisa, I would say yes. Attending summer camp as a provisional is "active", as long as he is otherwise "active" in his own troop. Frequently, scheduling problems are unavoidable, and the scout should not be penalized for it.

Armistice Day...The War to End All Wars...the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month.

Unless they are worn with a "high and tight" haircut, they will look just as stupid as they did in 1971, when we tried to wear them with the shoulder length hairstyle of the time.

My "big reward" came last year (no I'm not dead yet). Met a former Scout mom in a restaurant, and she went on to say how well her son (one of my former scouts) was enjoying Army basic training. His words, "this stuff is so easy...because I already had done it in scouts." (rappelling, shooting, land navigation, first aid, survival, etc) The Drill Instructor immediately recognized his skill and leadership bearing and made him the Squad Leader, helping the other recruits get through. He is now a SPC (E-4) serving in Iraq. I hope that what he got from scouts is helping to keep him and his buddies alive. That's why I'm still a scout leader after 32 years in the program, silly uniforms and all. In some small way, I feel like I'm making a contribution to the country.

If he's being "forced" to attend scouts, could be he's discovered a legal loophole that even his Father can't control. BSA policy is clearly stated in the Declaration of Religious Principle that all members must agree to. I would ask the scout to read it carefully and think about it...then come back to you with his decision to either remain a member or resign. It's his choice...not yours.

I'm a geek and proud of it! Who cares what others think? My brothers-in-law have no other life but sports. When there's a football game or NASCAR race on TV, nothing else matters and nothing will interfere. If they have to come to my house for a family gathering, one of them will commandeer the remote and put the race or the game on, regardless of what others may want. I find this rude and boorish. Their sons do nothing but sports. What will they do when they realize they won't make the varsity and go on to the NFL? Watch it on TV and drink beer like their dads? Sad. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against sports at the youth level. Everyone should play if they've got a mind to. But everyone should also learn to play an instrument, build a fire, do CPR, enjoy a play, treat women with respect, and take care of younger children and animals. Sounds like Scouting to me.

Sounds like a fair system for all concerned. Thanks for posting, Kurt.

Just be aware that most BSA logos are registered trademarks. If you can't buy it in the scout shop, it's probably not legal. I wonder how the scrapbookers are getting away with it.

Lisa brings up some good points. I do not support the parental buyout option. Either the scout earns his OWN way...or not. Allowing Mommy to carry your butt should no longer be an option at the Boy Scout level. It's not about money...it's about teaching self-reliance and responsibility. The PLC designs the program, which includes figuring out how to pay for it.

What do you do with a Life scout who joins your troop at age 15, and never shows up for meetings due to "family issues" (divorce)? His POR was served in a previous troop (e.g. Scribe) and is signed off in his book (previous troop folded, so I can't confirm). He goes to summer camp in another council as a provisional and collects all his MB there. He is registered, but does not participate with his troop...in anything. What do I say when he presents me with his Eagle application? Has he met the requirements? Heck if I know.

Jerry's right. It's pretty transparent to see why Councils don't want to be bothered with returned product. Once they "sell" the unit a full case, they've got their cut and don't want to give it back. We have some units who refuse to sell popcorn, but just stroke a check to the council every year as an FOS donation. They seem to be happy with that.

Ditto to what Prairie said. I can go to Council and pick up one box of butter lite if that's what I need (I've done it). That is one selling feature they use to convince units to sell popcorn over other fund raisers...NO RISK to the unit. All unsold product can be returned to council, and they sell it out of the scout shop all year round. My DE even gives it away to the faculty and staff when he goes to schools to give Boy talks. Your council is just being difficult.

http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/quality.htm

Do you have a Unit Budget Plan? After the annual program is planned, sketch out the budget...costs of activities, B/G banquet, PW Derby, monthly awards, Den expenses, leader training, etc. Then plan fundraisers and set dues to raise that amount of money. No more, no less. Then provide a copy of the Pack Budget to all parents with the expectation that this is THEIR program that THEY must support. If the funds are not there, the program will NOT be delivered. As someone wise once said, "There is no such thing as a free Wolf badge." I have heard units amassing five figure bank accounts through constant fund raisers...that's simply not necessary.

Is it just a problem with this scout, or would they not be interested in helping with ANY Eagle project? You might explain to them that they ALL need service hours...who is going to help with THEIR advancement?

When you are generous with your own money, it's called "liberal". When you are generous with MY money, it's called "stealing".

Concur, drbob.

Your brethren and sistren are showing an amazing level of scriptural ignorance. The "moneychangers" were those who collected the half-shekel "temple tax" that was levied on each male over the age of 20. The tax was payable with a half-shekel coin only. Those who did not have correct change or pilgrims who showed up with foreign currency were ripped off with a healthy "fee" for "changing" the money into the proper denomination, thus earning a healthy profit for themselves. How they relate this to Boy Scout fundraising is beyond me. If the church members are opposed to fund raising, then an alternative is that they provide you a share of the weekly offerings to fund the youth program that they agreed to support by signing the charter.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

Once at a Troop meeting, I overheard some of our scouts discussing the merits of one MP3 player over another. Acting dumb, I asked, "how do you get the music onto those things." "Oh, you just download songs from the internet." "For free," I asked feigning incredulity. "Sure." was the reply. "Aren't there copyright laws against stealing someone else's work?" I asked. "Aw, everyone does it. If it was illegal, it wouldn't be on the internet" My point is, today's kids have no problem swearing an oath to be Trustworthy, and at the same time freely ripping CDs and MP3s and trading them around, or cheating on an exam or plagiarizing a paper off the internet. They just don't make the connection. Our challenge is large!

A scout or scouter can belong to any unit he/she chooses, as long as the unit is willing to have them.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

Center looks at academic integrity ills By Monica Rozenfeld\Correspondent Published: 10/24/05 For the last 15 years, Don McCabe has looked into what influences a student to peek over at the test of the person next to them or to pass off an internet-purchased essay as their own. McCabe is a professor of Management and Global Business at the University, and also the founding president of the Center for Academic Integrity at Duke University. His research in the past 15 years on cheating has included over 140 colleges and universities in both the United States and Canada, surveying over 100,000 students. Aside from college-level cheating, he has focused on high school students as well. According to his research, high school students report a higher level of cheating than college-level students. Does this mean that cheating originates at a younger age and the habit transfers over to college? "It often does originate at younger levels but also can be very situational so that there are some students who may well cheat in college for the first time," McCabe said. Data show that 75 percent of the 4,500 high school students surveyed engage in serious cheating, according to a national survey by the Rutgers Management Education Center. "There are many reasons different students cheat," McCabe said. "Time pressures, competitiveness, panic, a way of life." In a CNN article, "Survey: Many students say cheating's OK," students respond to McCabe's findings. One student, Alice Newhall who attends a top school in northern Virginia, said the pressure to do well academically and compete for good colleges has made cheating a way to survive high school. "What's important is getting ahead," Newhall said. "The better you do, that's what shows. It's not how moral you were in getting there." And this mentality attributes morality to the real world as well. Aside from academic pressure, the most common response on why students cheat is due to the corruption of the adult world they see, including politicians and celebrities. "I think kids today are looking to adults and society for a moral compass and when they see the behavior occurring there, they don't understand why they should be held to a higher standard," McCabe said in the CNN article. There are many reasons why students do cheat, and knowing or not knowing possible consequences they still continue, but why does this not stop them? "It depends on the student," McCabe said. "Some obviously think they won't be caught. Some really don't care because they feel the reward outweighs the risk, especially if penalties [at their school] aren't severe. " "Some simply panic and others simply do not think about the consequences assuming somehow they'll get off if they're caught," he said.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

When my dad saw me watching TV on a nice day, he would walk in the room, turn the TV off and tell me to get my a-- outside. If I didn't have anyone to play with, he would find a few chores for me to do. It's entirely within parents' control. I have to agree with the school lunch issue, though.

I have been a member for many years. It's locality specific as to whether you will have a local chapter and how active they are. We don't have one, to my knowledge. For your money, you get a nice certificate (suitable for framing), a quarterly magazine (most of which is a listing of new life members), and a resume entry. Council gets a list of members for their use in recruiting (commissioners, etc), which I have since decided is probably the main reason the organization exists...a tracking system for Eagle Scouts.