scoutldr

I've been toying with the idea of spinning off a Crew/Ship from our Troop. In order to form a Ship, do you actually have to have one (or boat?)?

Most councils: New York? (I think there are 3 or 4 covering NYC alone)

I still wake up in a cold sweat worrying that i have an exam in the morning that I forgot about. And I've been out of school for 30 years.

This is wrong on so many levels...I feel for you. I would be interested to know how the Council took your registration money to join a unit that did not exist (valid charter). At the very least, I think they owe you a refund so you can pay it to your new unit. Unless you were registered under some other unit, or as District Members-at-Large, there was no way to process your application. You and your son's applications (and money) should not have been accepted without the proper signatures on them. If you don't have a COR, CC or CM, I would want to know WHO forged their signatures! You are correct about the liability issue...that is a huge concern, and the DE should be resolving this with the CO without delay. Fortunately, in Cub Scouts, advancement records are not strictly tracked as they are in Boy Scouts, so this is not something that will come back to haunt your son when he's 17 and filing his Eagle application. The Arrow of Light is the only Cub award that the scout takes with him to Boy Scouts. Go ahead and register with the new unit, allow him to wear his Bobcat badge with pride, and sign off the Wolf requirements that you know he has completed. The new Den Leader should take that at face value. Happy Scouting!

I've been reading these posts with interest, and, at the risk of sounding insensitive (I'm not), I'm afraid I have to side with the leaders. It's important to remember that the Scouting program is delivered by volunteer parents who are neither trained nor, in most cases, have the inclination to be therapists or mental health professionals. The only obligation of a volunteer leader is to try to ensure that the scout gets his meds on schedule (and even that's been debated here) and to ensure that one scout's behavior (whether there's a DSM IV code for it or not) does not disrupt the program nor cause a safety hazard to himself or the other scouts. We have to be fair to ALL the scouts...not just the ones with special requirements. If a scout can participate within those parameters, he is more than welcome. The scout program is designed to be "boy led" and that's how leaders are trained to deliver it. Each scout also is expected to "do his duty" to help others and to pull his share of the load, contributing to the team. It sounds like the scout program does not "meet his needs" and perhaps you should look for other options, such as forming a troop for AS kids. It sounds like there's a lot more of them around than there used to be. To expect the Council to provide an adult or another scout to follow a 13 yo around to make sure he goes where he needs to and does his MB work, and doesn't encounter any "melt down triggers" (and if he does, someone must be made to "apologize" to him?) is unreasonable and a cost that most camps can't afford. It wouldn't happen in my Council or troop, either. We have precious few adults participating anyway, and we can't devote one full time to one scout. My best advice is that if your council does not have a Special Needs program that meets what you think are reasonable standards, they would probably be thrilled to have you volunteer to get it up to par and help raise the funds to support it. That's the only way things get done in Scouting at the youth OR adult level...if a gap exists, get in there and fill it. Don't expect "someone else" to provide it for you. Good luck.

Maybe I'm missing something, but shouldn't all questions about the project be asked by the District Advancement Chair before the BOR is scheduled? The BOR is too late to be bringing this up.

1. Work on the physically fit thing...I renewed my BSA Lifeguard last summer and it darned near killed me. I should ideally lose 100 lbs, but will do what I can before I develop diabetes. 2. Return to my church. After my parents died in 1995, I drifted away....too many childhood memories in that building. 3. Try to be more tolerant of my 74 year old mother in law who just moved in with us. It's like having a teenager in the house again who doesn;t worry about washing dishes, putting trash in it's place or having to pay the electric bill, and who sleeps all day and then wonders "what's for supper".

First of all welcome to the forums! To perhaps over-simplify, the primary function of adults in the OA is to serve as advisors to the youth leaders. The Chapter Advisor serves as the advisor to the Chapter Chief, and as such is also an ex officio member of the District Camping Promotion committee (at least in this Council). You should expect to attend all chapter meetings, the Lodge Executive Committee meetings, all OA events, and District Committee meetings. From the title of your topic, if you are also a SM, it might be a little much to try to do both jobs, that's up to you, but an Arrowman's first obligation is to his/her unit.

As long as the professionals are judged by the numbers, there will be creative bookkeeping. I think peer-to-peer recruiting is the most effective. In my house, if it looks like "junk mail", I don't even get to see it.

If I was COR, I'd have many questions about the quality of the unit aquatics programs/procedures if anyone less than a BSA Lifeguard is signing off on the BSA Swim Test. John, I am a BSA Lifeguard Counselor and I'm not aware that only BSA Lifeguards can sign off the First Class swimming requirement. Did you just make that up? If you have a BSA Lifeguard in your unit, it's fine that you ask him/her to sign it off...but it's not a requirement that I know of. Of course, if you are doing the swimming requirement as a unit, then all Safe Swim Defense rules should be followed, including "qualified supervision".

Thanks for the update, Eisely. Please thank your son for his service to our country. As a DoD civilian, I know too well that civilians, both civil service and contractors, work side by side in harm's way with our military comrades, and often the only difference is the clothes we wear. I don't begrudge them their medals and other recognition, but there are many more people serving than what is seen on the 6 o'clock news. Their families' fear and anxiety is not any less.

No, Ed that is not the definition of hazing. Go back to the beginning and carefully read the thread again. Merry Kwachrismakah.

When I was an Explorer in the early 70's, the Sea Scouts changed to Sea Explorers. Now they are back to Sea Scouts and Explorers are now Venturers which is not the same as a Venture Patrol, and Explorers are some other group part of Learning for Life that is not part of the BSA, but really is, except that gays and atheists can join because so many of the COs are govt agencies that can't discriminate. And then there's Varsity, which is part of the BSA but is really sports, and was created for the LDS church but is open to all, but I don't know of any non-Mormon units. I'm so confused. Am I still a Scouter?

Just a word to the wise...if your kid is on Myspace.com, take a minute to log on and scope it out. I did this with my niece and her boyfriend, because my sister suspected she was into sex and drugs. Turns out the boyfriend had illegal handguns (visible in the picture) and was engaged in hate and gang activity. Also, a lot of personal and obscene information was posted. You would be amazed at what you can find out about your kids and their friends. If your kids are under 18, you have an obligation to know what they are doing on line.

Beave, just because your state has legally defined a term, doesn't mean the BSA can't have higher standards and a different definition. Most states also define discrimination in legal terms, but the BSA definition is different in many cases. This concept is common...in the Safety and health field, OSHA has defined "hazard" in legal terms, but employers are free to define it in more stringent terms if they feel it is in their best interest, as long as they meet the minimum requirements. Now as an employee, you may think that the more stringent requirement is silly, but you are free to choose a different employer. In addition, as you describe your state law, it sounds like it applies in an educational setting and is probably not relevant outside the school setting. I would venture a guess that in most states, "hazing" is not illegal outside the school setting, however other laws may apply, such as harrassment, libel, slander, assault, battery, child abuse, sexual harrassment, etc.

Well said, LongHaul.

William T. Hornaday Unit Award A Hornaday unit certificate, No. 21-110, is awarded to a pack, troop, team, or crew of five or more Boy Scouts, Varsity Scouts, or Venturers for a unique, substantial conservation project. At least 60 percent of registered unit members must participate. These units may be nominated, or they may apply to their BSA local council for recognition.

No, Ed. Kitchen duty is a necessary camp job. Making an 11 year old Tenderfoot wait until midnight to set up his tent while the older boys stand around harrassing and ridiculing him serves no purpose that I can see. How many points of the Scout Law does that support??? From the dictionary: Hazing: 1. To persecute or harass with meaningless, difficult, or humiliating tasks. 2. To initiate, as into a college fraternity, by exacting humiliating performances from or playing rough practical jokes upon. ETYMOLOGY: Perhaps from obsolete haze, to frighten, from obsolete French haser, to annoy, from Old French.

Whoa, there yourself. What Lisabob said was, "Consequently, the least experienced (who so far are also the youngest) boys always end up setting up their tents last, usually in the dark, often quite late at night. My son feels this is unfair because, he says, the boys who get done first then also heckle the boys at the end of the line to hurry up (but, he says, they don't actually offer to help) so that everybody can get to cracker barrel and then go to bed or whatever." Hazing is in the eyes of the recipient...if the young scout feels hazed, (or embarrassed or ashamed, etc) then it's hazing. And no one said it was adults doing the hazing, although they are apparently condoning it. If the shoe fits...

I recently saw the perfect cell phone for kids without jobs (that is, not paying their own bills). It has 3 buttons for dialing out...Mom, Dad and 911. It can also be programmed to receive calls from only certain numbers. That solves the dilemma for parents who insist that "they NEED a cell phone in case of emergencies", and then gripe about a $1500 bill because their kids are out of control. I carry a cell phone only because we have elderly parents who are home alone while we are at work. I make maybe 6 outgoing calls a month, usually to say I'm caught in traffic and will be late getting home. I hate phones. Unfortunately, my DE thinks that we should spend every evening trying to call unit leaders who won't respond to an e-mail. Don't get me started.

Yes, the BOR question is typical...we use it at every BOR. Your troop's camping "policy" is not. In fact, it borders on hazing, which has no place in a Scouting program. Your son's "proposal" is spot on, and in fact, is the way most troops operate, in my experience.

I'll bet they were "Quality Units", though.

At our District meetings we have one, maybe two CORs show up out of about 70 units. That's on a good month. No amount of training, cajoling, or inviting seems to change that. On a REALLY good month, the District Chairman shows up and actually presides over the meeting instead of the DE (even though the DE plans the agenda and prints it out for him). In my opinion, the answer is pretty simple. As I understand it, the professionals' jobs are to 1)get major donations from corporate and private sources (not the volunteers), 2)form new units, and 3) get more youth, in that order. If they are not producing and meeting goals set by the Council Executive Boards, they need to be replaced. Yes, the volunteers have a role...that is to deliver the program with the resources provided by the fruits of the professionals' labors. Too often, I see the pros getting down into the weeds with things like camporee planning, training, Roundtables, etc. As has been mentioned on this forum before, Executive Boards are hand picked by the SE, and they just rubber stamp what he wants, even if it includes selling off property to pay salaries or buy new office furniture. Perhaps Executive Boards should be nominated and elected by the Council membership at large, instead of just a majority vote of the few CORs who bother to show up for the annual meeting. My perceptions...yours may differ.

I always thought the BSA had a "made in USA" policy, which is the excuse I always hear for the poor quality and high prices of uniform items. At the last RT, we were given our Quality Unit 2006 patches...official "Scout Stuff" printed on the plastic back. Also on the back of EACH patch was a small gold sticker, proclaiming "MADE IN CHINA". I have a vision of some 10 year old cranking these things out in a sweat shop for 14 hours a day making 12 cents an hour. They are of acceptable quality, though I'm not sure I want to wear it on my uniform right under the American flag. Seems kinda hypocritical.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

I would tell him that maybe God has presented him with a perfect opportunity to "turn the other cheek" and to "forgive those who trespass against us."