RememberSchiff

Hmm, Maine and a 100m rifle range at a scout camp, wonder if locals will be dropping in, uninvited, to sight-in their deer rifles?

Wow, thanks for posting that interview. I disagree with Sm Fox initial lone wolf response but I am glad he now has legal counsel. Not sure his scouts have learned any citizenship lessons. Maybe they need to watch Mr. Smith Goes to Washington? My advice, it is time to play offense Hawkeyes. Both sides agree the border camera incident occurred and most scouts and their families cannot understand why it was illegal at a port of entry, You have your Senator Grassley on your side, why not propose to Senator Grassley that he sponsor a bill. Call it the Scout Border Camera Bill or the Say Cheese at Our Border Bill. Help lobby support and observe the legislative action in progress . I bet even with the most Do-Nothing Congress ever, this bill will receive bipartisan support. A lesson in active, involved citizenship. Another $0.02,

Update http://www.keepmecurrent.com/front/military-pulls-out-of-camp-hinds/article_d70bafbe-1f2c-11e4-bbc5-001a4bcf887a.html Selected extracts follow: After three months, the military has pulled out of Camp Hinds. In their wake, the roughly 420 engineer reservists that cycled through the camp this summer left a new parking lot, five new shooting ranges, three new staff cabins and more at the 87-year-old Raymond Boy Scouts camp. The reservists also built an 1,800-foot access road, renovated the John P. Messer Rotary Scout Training Center, cleared a site for a future dining facility, added electricity to buildings, built a new loudspeaker, and constructed four shooting pavilions, equipped with roofs bolstered with 10-gauge steel. Although the training program has prepared a five-year plan for the site, Benko said, the future of the program remains in the hands of Congress. Reservists will definitely return next spring to begin foundation work on the new dining facility, Benko said. But it remains to be seen whether the project will be funded beyond next year. It is exceedingly rare in the Boy Scouts of America to have a modern, safely designed, professionally built 100-meter-rifle range,†Tarbox said. “We’re not aware of any Boy Scout camps nationally that have a 100-meter rifle range. There may be. We’re just not aware of any. So for us to have one at Camp Hinds enables us to offer a learning experience with long-range, .22 rifle shooting that can’t be offered anywhere else.†Scout salute to the National Guard and Army and Marine reserve units.

Yes and I agree as I heard those views from staff. Also heard from troop adult leaders and some older scouts who wanted "the weekend" after camp back. They felt camp consumed the better part of two weekends. And if you are adult using your vacation time while your family waits at home...

Just back from a week of camp. I noticed a variety of different departure times such that the Saturday closing ceremony had about a third of troops that started the week. So when should a week of camp officially end, i.e., all troop pack up,campsite inspected, and troop leaves? I will assume most camps run Sunday through Saturday.

I am becoming skeptical that the public will learn the truth of this matter. I wonder if the Freedom of Information Act can be used to release the Customs videos? Maybe Congress will drop the photo restrictions, which started this incident, as they are silly (Customs posts port of entry videos on Youtube), unnecessary, and unenforceable (smart phones, Google glasses, etc.) My $0.02

Some scouts don't even wear pants. Not to worry, a scout is a scout whether he is wearing the uniform or not, which is optional

According to link below "The agents, Hopper said, had spoken with another one of the four adults chaperoning the Scout trip." Hopper added, "The investigators have been very clear they are only looking at whether Border Patrol drew a gun on the Scouts. They're not going after the Scouts or their leaders." What about the alleged: prison term/$10K fine threat, 4 hour detention (or was that to change a flat tire?), and questioning scouts about packing knives and matches? The issue of SM Fox not giving permission to interview scouts may be that he is just not naming who they are and so the investigators do not know exactly who to interview unless scouts step forward on their own? This is getting more and more odd. http://www.desmoinesregister.com/sto...rded/13450109/

Here's another special person, U.S. Army Maj. Glenn Battschinger In 2010, he started Afghan boy scout Troop 1 with 40 scouts. Today, there are dozens of troops in five eastern Afghanistan provinces, funded with a $100,000 grant secured by Battschinger from the Department of Defense and serving more than 10,000 boys and about 1,500 girls. http://www.people.com/article/afghanistan-boy-scouts-army-hero

I'm puzzled that other adult leaders who were on the trip are not speaking and did not view the video yesterday. SM Fox now has legal representation, John Whitehead of the Rutherford Institute (Virginia). SE Hopper had a reassuring observation "I've been impressed with the investigation and how serious and courteous they have been," Hopper said. "One of the investigators is a scoutmaster back in Seattle. They understand how our organization works. And we both want the truth." http://www.desmoinesregister.com/sto...outs/13395149/

7/30/2014, Updated with USA Today Investigators from Homeland Security met this morning with SM Jim Fox and SE Robert Hopper at Mid-Iowa Council http://www.midiowacouncilbsa.org/ "They said four cameras at the border recorded video of the incident. (SM) Fox told KCCI that after reviewing it, he said for him the video is inconclusive. The investigation is ongoing." According to the USA Today article, SE Hopper after viewing video, said "(video) doesn't match the story that's been presented (by scouts).". "At one point, one of the officers shined a flashlight into one of the vans," Hopper said. "It was after 9 at night, so maybe that was when somebody thought they saw a gun. I don't know." "Hopper said federal investigators would be in town through Friday and had requested to meet with the Scouts who witnessed the incident." http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/30/scout-leader-maintains-agent-pointed-gun-at-boys/13393267/ http://www.kcci.com/news/feds-open-i...ident/27184948

I like the video interview with the scout who was in the park to remove bush honeysuckle. Maybe today's scout needs to know leaf identification of this too? http://www.fox28.com/story/26144728/2014/07/29/boy-scout-finds-marijuana-plants-in-city-park

Not the point, my relatives tend to have the opinion that their scouts, among other youth groups, are their best kids and they protect all their kids. But if this is how you treat our best ...and the emotions take off. Sorry that my wording was not clear. Latest news from KCCI http://www.kcci.com/news/feds-open-i...ident/27184948 "The Office of Inspector General (OIG), Department of Homeland Security, has opened in investigation into the allegations made concerning a July 7 incident along the U.S. –Canadian Border involving Customs and Border Protection (CBP) personnel and members of an Iowa-based Boy Scout troop. The OIG is taking the lead in the investigation, which is being conducted in conjunction with the CBP Office of Internal Affairs." Too bad the Alaska State Troopers are not the lead investigators.

T2Eagle that's a good explanation of the border realities. I will take a stab at realities in Iowa. My relatives in Iowa live outside of the supposed "100 mile Constitution free zone" and hence still live in America proper. They don't understand this "zone" that a Federal judge affirmed. They don't understand how the US border suddenly grew 100 miles wide inward. They also don't understand why American citizens would be so treated (detained for 4 hours) at the entry point to their own country (allegedly) because of pocket knives and matches. You are back in the land of the free and home of the brave and should be welcomed home where your constitutional rights not a gun greet you at the door. And yes, they are livid about an American law enforcement officer (allegedly) pulling a firearm on one of their Boy Scouts at that door. Another $0.02,

Tree Climbing was a Cub Scout rank or arrow elective requirement back in 60's. I think it was for Wolf. I remember climbing a neighbor's tree as high as her roof.

Like nature, outdoor education is somewhat cyclic. Some of the events along that timeline: learning nature, agriculture from the American Indian as we "settled" West, colleges offer degrees in Agriculture, Scouting/4H, recycling for war effort, victory gardens, colleges offer degrees in Forestry/Land management, Earth Day Movement (ecology), recycling for the environment, Outward Bound/NOLS, colleges offer degrees in Environmental Science, community gardens...Last Child in the Woods (1998), colleges offer degrees in outdoor recreation. So periodically, some adults wake up and realize what has been forgotten from the past and re-institute it. LNT is but one example. In recent years, I have found that many local middle and high schools have developed successful outdoor programs. To me it seems ironic, that the schools are offering outdoor programs and the BSA is offering STEM programs, each attempting to fill a void created by the other. Go figure. My $0.02

Update: 7/26/2014 http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/ca...tml?akmobile=o San Diego,CA police are unable to determine if gunshot(s) was intentional or accidental, but believe scout got the unregistered gun in Las Vegas and brought it to San Diego summer camp. Scout was then shot inside his tent while camping on Fiesta Island Monday, June 30. "San Diego police say another boy was in the tent and a third boy was outside when the shooting happened. The investigation has now been handed over to the Las Vegas Police Department." Clark County, Nevada which includes Las Vegas requires handgun registration.

No. I have family in Nebraska and Iowa and we stay in touch.

Over the years, I have had good experiences and bad experiences with law officers. I think the bad experiences are in part due to their forgetting that they are also here to serve the community and yes that also means being a role model 24x7 - a hard job. Allow me to introduce Grand Island, Nebraska police officer Butch Hurst, known as the police officer who never says no to scouts. http://www.theindependent.com/news/l...a4bcf887a.html

"U.S. Customs and Border Protection staff will fly to Iowa to visit with Boy Scout leaders about an incident on the Alaskan border that’s gaining national attention." Lawyer up. Tell the CBP to bring the film and we will supply the popcorn. Also inform them to leave their guns in Alaska and we will leave our pocket knives and matches home. Oh and lawyer up. Even though CBP knows the names of all scouts and adults at the port of entry incident, I'm not sure scouts should attend this meeting. Seek counsel about that. I'm sure their parents will want to attend. http://thegazette.com/subject/news/i...ction-20140725

Who to believe? Which side destroyed photo(s) perhaps relevant to the allegations? What if a scout states the photo he took and that was deleted by CBP was of a gun drawn at the port of entry? May need an independent investigator to sort this out. Who are you going to believe a Boy Scout or the Government? This is getting interesting. http://www.kcci.com/news/sen-grassley-reacts-to-border-incident-with-iowa-boy-scout/27125374#!bk4Cgy I think Mr. Fox needs to defer questions/interviews to a skilled attorney and certainly not speak with CBP unless the interview takes place in his attorney's office. Maybe the same advice for the parents of the 15 year old scout.

Why didn't the Customs border officers have control of the border inspection from the start, e.g., "All those in the vans exit and stand over there with Officer Smith while we check your vehicles." I don't buy the excuse that those with the guns were afraid. BTW, good to see all those videos of Alaska Customs posted by CBP on Youtube.

A little more precise in this followup report - Customs officer at a port of entry, gun drawn and pointed at scout, the $10K fine was nonsense. http://www.kcci.com/news/boy-scout-f...102496#!bkm97i I think the "civics lesson" for scouts is to take legal and legislative action so this does not happen again to any American. I think the ACLU has a related suit about photo taking. Get the Alaskan and Iowan congressional delegations involved.

[quote=Rick_in_CA;n414296 As for taking a picture being illegal, here is what the ACLU says: (would not paste quote -sorry) I don't think it's unreasonable to consider taking a photo falling under the definition of "videotaping or recording anything". That's a good point. Was the official a Border Patrol officer (legal to photo) or Customs officer (port of entry which may be illegal?). Anyway, if either pointed a handgun at a scout, I'm waiting to hear what the infraction or threat to national security warranted that action. So far, neither side is talking (after the initial report) which usually does nothing to correct an errant procedure or educate both sides.