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They're here!!! One of the scouts in my Jambo troop met a Brazillian scout whose dad saw the uniforms of a troop coming from summer camp and asked the leaders if any boys would be at WSJ. Oh, if you see a Sweedish troop of the name Riddarholmen somewhere between Boston, Phili, and Shenandoah, tell them that you know a stranger on the internet who is looking forward to coffee with The Doughnuts!

We think we know everything about how to coach scouts, until that next scout! Then we start posting here!

... we would all say? ... When that happens, I'll go to another forum! If I'm in a troop that camps a lot (say a long weekend every month) and some of the proposed outings sound super adventurous (from an 11 year old perspective) and the camp's MBCs in the scout-craft area seem really nice, maybe I want to take Camping at my 1st summer camp because I really want to represent my patrol well. Since crossing over in February, I may already have 10-12 camping nights that might have been full of little missteps, and I want to do better. Now, I might be mistaken about how busy my troop is, and they might not camp all that much. But, my family or youth group may. Or, at least they would if I came back excited to keep working the skills I just mastered. So, I think I can very much see the point of a partial now, nights later strategy.

The purveyors of shower houses with individual rooms (toilet sink and shower in each) are slinging their wares at our scout reservation, and another that I just visited.

The site crashes while I'm trying to read the page.

One game for church lock-ins: sardines. Unfortunate about the older scouts. But, make sure the 2nd years especially have a lot of fun, but carry responsibility. It is well within their reach to read sections of the course, then instructions for games and excercises, etc ... The older scouts: back off things like EDGE or lecturing about the being examples, etc ... Instead, challenge them with a roll of twine and say, "Build a cool camp gadget. Try and impress ..."

Well, in this Arab American family, my parents and older siblings (i.e. old enough to be my parents) did not come with the troop on any activities. My dad and his buddies did enough camping right out of high school ... it was called the World War. After that, they got down to the business of working long hours to give their families good things. It was a rare day that they would even visit camp for an hour ... not even to help put up a gateway at the fair grounds for the bicentennial. That was for our SM's to teach, and us to figure out. My oldest brother was a scout! By all reports he still is a swell guy to camp with ... never joined me or my sons and daughter. Maybe if BSA would have let him earn Eagle as an adult, he would have served a troop well. In my mind ASMs were students from a local college. Only later did I meet ASMs who were parents. Nice people, and great role models for me, but completely unexpected. Clearly it wasn't just an immigrant sentiment. Plenty of other boys' parents left their kids in the hands of "experts" for the weekend of summer camp. So, some communities are a little "old school" and feel their presence on a campout or hike does their kids more harm than good.

I was just talking to a scout in our Jambo troop (and his SM dad), and reminded him "No pressure, but there is something really cool about being able to wear that Eagle patch during last (or in your son's case, last two) summer camp.

Our camp chaplain is pretty sharp and checks in with every unit at least once.

I would use a flip chart over a power point. It gives the scouts a chance to mark up your slides. (Although some of them a skilled enough to do that these days anyway.)

All I can speak to is how we did act. Obviously the key-three did touch base on this. But, they decided that it was imperative that all parents understood what we knew, what we did not know, and what actions we could and could not take. Some of our parents were LEO officers and Juvenile caseworkers. It would have been foolish not to bring them all to the table. The dozen folks who attended were courteous to the CC and SM and very helpful. The parent of the offending scout did not come, but I think he would have been welcomed if he did. (But for the grace of God, it could have been our kid.) He was surprised when the CC and SM and a couple ASMs later met with him and offered a suspension and not an expulsion. My experience with "small body" decisions, is that they fall short of getting everyone where they need to be in terms of trust.

I think there's a difference between "parents' popularity" and "friends of his parents", regardless and SM or CC is no friend of any parent if they can't be plainspoken.

My experience is with venturers, but it still applies. No powerpoints please! Put as much of the materials as possible in the hands of the scouts. It's fine if they're reading from the teacher's guide for the first time. Mistakes are par for the course. Think of as many wide games as possible. For example, if "telephone" is your illustration for communication: play it in a field with the scouts at as far apart as possible. Tell the message to the first scout, have him run and give it to the next scout, who runs and gives it to the next, etc ... Last scout writes it down. (Maybe on a very large board, with paint?) Score= # of correct words divided by time. Food Fun ... PL's pick an activity (hike, swim, float, fish) that can be done in the middle of the course.

@baishengli, Welcome to the forums! I think there is a lot to be said for getting it done earlier ... not the least of which it prepares a scout to choose challenging courses, take on other projects, apply for grants and scholarships, etc ... But, ... I never saw a job, driving, or more freedom to be a problem with our older scouts. On the contrary, those things provide the funds and contacts to earn meaningful badges and plan better projects, a vehicle to go meet their counselors and procure supplies, the ability to earn badges on their own schedule, and unique skills that they can pass on to other scouts by way of leadership. The only problem with a slow pace that I can think of: a scout has more time to change his/her mind and decline rank advancement. I don't consider that to be a problem ... at least not for the scout.

Aside: [@mrkstvns, use your quote button and clip the relevant passage from the article. Some of us aren't divulging personal info to get behind a "free" paywall, and we won't be stopping by the library until later in the week!] The author won't admit it, but his reference is to "acceptable" immigrants from "civilized" countries. Like @Terasec mentions, there is a certain "orderliness" about how Europeans go about things now vs. how they used to. You can catch hints of this evolution in the scenes in Roling's writings vs. those of Tolkein. I've seen some of his observations about Asian families, but it varies widely by country. Then there's folks from the more awesome parts of the world: I can find you a Syrian immigrant child who put in more nights under the stars with meager rations than a lodge of Arrowmen combined. :( Same for my adopted Ugandan great-niece. She can light fires like nobody's business. But it's not always out of necessity ... My Kuwaiti friend told me his clan has a camping season. They are all about the tent cities. A Pakistani friend was a scout, and he said trips to camps in the mountains were par for the course. It's a big world ... lots of folks with a wide variety of experience.

BTW, @logistician24, welcome to the forums! Sorry for excessive acronyms. DE= District Executive. The last time dealt with something like this, the CC and SM brought any concerned parents to the meeting. The parent of the scout was not there. We all listened, then advised. The CC and SM then visited the parent and scout. The scout did send me an apology for his behavior (as, I assume, he did other leaders) He said he'd try to come back to scouting, but never did. Yes, there is a fine line between watching like a hawk and hovering like a swarm of mosquitoes. Figuring it out varies with the integrity of your scouts.

Well, right now, yesterday's yellow jacket sting on my forehead is swelling down my face. Feels lousy, but I think I correctly determined that it's not anaphylaxis. Cellulitis,. on the other hand ... Found out in the process that Daughter's doc suggested that she start carrying an epi-pen, as her response to stings has progressed over the years.

Without delving into details ... The boy needs to be suspended from the troop. It sounds like he does not want to be a scout (a scout is trustworthy, ... obedient, ... clean). Give him three to six months of not being one. Then he can call if he wants back in. That is how you offer a second chance. Note, I have learned from this forum that some councils want their DE's to be informed of suspended scouts. So, let your DE know what you're planning to do. They may be able to provide the mom with some helpful resources.

Welcome to the forums, and thanks for all you do for our youth! From requirements on https://oa-bsa.org/about/membership (emphasis mine). Talk to your chapter chief. And to your scouts who already are arrowmen. Ask them if you're stretching the criteria beyond recognition.

Maybe. But if it is, might well tell the scouts they have one more reason to hustle up and make rank.

Our WM is golden! I think this is the challenge of SMs in the age of a plethora of PoR's. You have to make sure 1) the boys care about work getting done and will tell the scout every time they missed seeing that job done, 2) a scout is removed from the position if a few weeks go by without the work being done.

@mrkstvns, consider signing on to discussions.scouting.org. It's a new forum for all things SB. (And a little bit about the other methods of scouting.) The developer was a scout, so he gets it. But, sometimes folks ask for conflicting features. So his team is trying to be responsive. At least on the forum they are giving frank answers as to the priority of a bug fix/new feature and the thinking behind the decision.

I've known a cub scout or two who earned every typical achievement. At times they were called arrow-points. Now they are adventure loops. The current list as mapped out here seems within reach of an extremely active cub. I estimate that there'll be one in every pack every couple of years. The other awards that @TMSM mentions are rarely earned in their own right.

My bottom line: we have no business telling a scout what MBs to take when. My advice to scouts: You need eight electives for advancement to Eagle, and 5 more for each Palm you'd like to earn. So rack those electives up as early and as often as your scout spirit emboldens you. If you happen to be interested in an Eagle-required badge, go for it. But never let a required badge get in the way of earning an elective of interest to you. Then, When you reach 1st Class, start picking the required ones that you feel ready to knock out for your next rank. If you haven't done so already, that's one a month for Star, one every other month for Life, and one a month for Eagle. That said, in separate conversations I tell the boys in our troop that when I collapse, I want as many scouts around me who know what to do to forestall my demise. So, 1st Aid, Lifesaving, and E-Prep are very high on my list of "to master as soon as you feel able". But that's got nothing to do with their advancement and everything to do with our survival when dark days arrive! Son #1 earned archery his first year ... and swimming, but that was a family imperative because we spend half our weekends on a Great Lake. Son #2 partial-ed in swimming ... because lightning disrupted every day they were to do surface dives. Seven years, and he never took the time to go and check that one off. Wound up Hiking the snot out of our county at age 17.8. In conclusion, @SteveMM your new scout (and his parent) was given excellent advice, and your son was given sub-par advice.

@ParkMan, I think the not-so-shot short answer is "no, and yes". The average troop is not designed to provide enough program for older youth. As you recount, youth are designed to provide program for their troop. Take, for example, the merit badge program. It was designed to exist outside the troop. Councilors were selected on a handshake from the district commissioners. The list was was typed and pinned to the bulletin board. Scouts read the list and told the SM, I'd like to take y MB from Mr/Mrs x. The MB program is a program for older youth to get outside the troop, meet folks in your community, and learn stuff. In doing that, boys would come back and enhance the troop program. Simple example, one day a year our troop would have a meeting dedicated to hobbies. Scouts would bring in or demonstrate their hobbies. In many cases these were related to the MB they had earned that year or were working on. I was nuts about model design and building -- ships mainly. Another scout made farm equipment models. I learned a lot about grading roads from him. I'd like to think scouts learned about nautical stuff from me. The next year, I took Photography at a MB pow-wow and after quality time in the darkroom with the counselor, learned enough about developing film to keep taking pin-hole camera pictures. My parents got me the equipment to temporarily turn the bathroom into my own darkroom. I then, for our council camporee, talked the SM into getting our whole troop to convert a long cardboard box into a mobile darkroom and learn to develop pinhole camera portraits (passport photo size). For one Satuday, it was probably the only 1-hour photo studio in the state! So, what about Son #1 and his scholar-athlete buddies? They rolled some duct tape and string and who-knows-what into a ball, pulled a decent stick from the fire pile, and defined imaginary bases around where the camp gathered for flags. The jaw of one parent of a particularly non-athletic, non-participating son hit the ground when he asked after his son and I told him, "Oh, he's playing baseball with the boys in their field of dreams." Over the years, advancement requirements have become more organization-serving (e.g., camping nights only count under the auspices of BSA, the recruitment requirements, activity attendance over skill mastery, insta-Palms for scouts who spend so much time in O/A, HA, or Jambo that they postpone Eagle Projects of fulfilling PoR's, etc ...). And that's a shame. When we try to make the troop the be-all-end-all of youth development, we miss the point. And we wear ourselves out in the process.