qwazse

Unless the scouts confront the SM and say that they think his behavior is inappropriate, you should expect nothing to change. I concluded early on that there’s nothing wrong with scouts having to choose between troop and crew activities. Venturing serves a different purpose for dual registered youth compared to its role for youth in only one program. There is one line that I used to great effect during my time of troop-crew conflict: “I’m not about to be bothered by the burr up anyone’s butt … especially yours!”

My observations generally concur with @gpurlee's friend -- chances are we compared notes. With some added detail: 1) Each American unit was in a different subcamp, so there was only international contact. In contrast to the last WSJ, it felt good to be the minority. For those into trading, US swag was in high demand. Regarding facilities and emergency services, they were adequate to the task at hand, and we saw them improve daily. 2) The contingent management team (including our troop's commissioner) did not visit our site (which I found to be splendid) until after they decided to evacuate. Communication was primarily via Basecamp (before the trip) and Whatsapp (hastily assembled after the trip). Neither is as useful as these forums would have been. 3) It's summertime on a warming planet. My scouts (from across the southeast US) had camped in heat and humidity like this before. And the amount of dehydration/heat stroke among our boys was par for the course. This was a relatively safe environment to learn how to listen to your body. The Brits, were not nearly as disciplined, and talking to the youth, many were not consuming the needed water and electrolytes, and were not slowing their pace in the afternoon. (Mad dogs and Englishmen ... out in the noonday sun.) 4) We were not merely confined to base. We were confined to the garrison's school grounds. There was no visiting the PX, or the library, or any of the base families (who weren't even allowed to visit us on day one, but that was relaxed when we were staying there on days 7 through 11), no access to a kitchen to make my coffee! (I'm still kicking myself for not buying fuel for my burner when we stopped at a grocery on the pre-tour.) Excursions from base required coordinating all 20 buses to leave and return at the same time, and it took time for the MPs to clear the convoy in either direction across the gate. (Police escorts are cool the first time ... not so much after that.) So, for a two-hour shopping trip in Seoul, we were on a bus for 6 hours. 5) Coordinating with leaders of other troops was not pleasant. There were numerous violations of my rule #1 (don't ask for a rule). We would be given instructions, followed by the phrase that I came to dread: "Are there any questions?" On base, this caused delays in execution of simple tasks like dropping your gear and getting dinner. I finally started taking on tasks just to prevent second-guessers from wasting all of our time worrying about doing it wrong. For this reason alone, we would have been better off dispersed to the various campuses, sharing quarters with other contingents. 6) I'm no fan of conventions. But, the simple format of having 40,000 kids from hundreds of nations camp together is a heady brew that I won't pass up. I would have definitely preferred to stay on site until the day before the typhoon made landfall. (I actually slept out on my hammock under a porch the night it landed.) I think this is the experience of most of our SMs. We would have preferred to have helped the troops who were hurting to relocate to our seemingly better sites. In fact, we requested that the contingent management team rescind its total evacuation order allow us to do just that. We were obviously denied. Following up with contingent leaders, it seems the root cause for the premature withdrawal was in US/UK vs. Korean medical teams' conflicting standards of care for edge cases (i.e. those needing surgery). Contingent management estimated that the risk to the one or two scouts who might need that care outweighed the desires and abilities of the leaders in camp. This is a subtle story that doesn't make headlines because it doesn't sound as dramatic as the rather common rate of heat exhaustion, mediocre infrastructure, and high probability of foul weather. But, I think that type of conflict will require close scrutiny before we find ourselves in Poland in 2027.

Each US unit was in a different subcamp, so there was variation in hydrology. No two pieces of drained seabed are alike! This is no surprise. But, US and Brit camps were also worse simply by virtue of arriving a day late.

Heartbroken. It took me all day yesterday to come up with the word for how I feel. It was also how most US SMs feel. The contingent management team, under the guidance of National, is acting against our wishes to remain on site. The KSA had been very good to us. Health services delivery and sanitation were improving daily. They added multiple mitigation strategies. The youth had adjusted to less movement during the day. Our campsite had a constant stream of visitors trading, bringing coffee, or simply chatting. Then at night things began to pop! We exchanged this for hours-per-day rides on busses. To whatever features might placate youth. I’m in an underground mall and the boys are making the best of it. They have encountered some Scouts UK, but it’s certainly not the same. The volunteers at Humphreys are kind and consoling, but they are volunteering in order to comfort the traumatic loss of autonomy we feel. Ad steak and eggs for breakfast makes up for a lot. Hopefully the next couple of days of local fellowship with the garrison’s youth will make up for a lot. Expect BSA-favorable spin on that from National in your inbox soon.

I’m too emotional for comment. Will recap when WIFi is better.

@Tron, all I have to say to your committee is that there are no uniform police, only insignia wonks.

Let’s not speak as if BSA is a monolith. ET Seaton (BSA’s exec in the 30s) was very upset that Juliet Gordon Low did not found the American organization using the name of its British counterpart “Girl Guides.” There were other outdoor organizations for girls that steered clear of using “Scouts” as in their brand. Low stepped into that space. The boots on the ground simply didn’t care, Seaton desired to take action so that they would care. He sought Baden Powell’s support, which Powell refused to give. BSA relented. (https://www.jstor.org/stable/3346224). The same recently occurred in the reverse with GS/USA execs. I’m sure they were hounded on many fronts to relent. Or, as I explained to a female Eagle early this spring, “Adults ruin everything.”

If predators were simply identifiable as a buck naked person standing behind any of my scouts, my life would be so much easier. But 20th century America’s revulsion with nudity in public art runs deeper than that. The history of the Liberty Quarter is another striking example. But, as we see in this thread, our multicultural society holds diverse views.

I like the National memorial. I get the point of the the ideal man and woman behind the scout (more Adam and Eve than Greek or Norse, but still trying to harken on multiple traditions). My regret is that they are not full nudes as one would expect. I, too, would have preferred the female scout statue to be more down to earth. I think the body shape does not reflect the average 16 year old, but that could also be the camera angle.

This is pretty much how WSJ operated at Summit in 2019 (albeit with 4x the attendance). There were team activities in some areas, but ad hoc patrols could self-form for those. Scouts wanting to ride the big zip, for example, checked out of camp as early as 5am to get in line. Some units were more tight-knit — especially if they had time slots for performing on one of the stages. But generally, as long as scouts were with a buddy, they had free reign of the place. The Korean Jamboree Management Team, on the other hand, is scheduling many activities by patrol. I last experienced a system like that in the 1981 AP Hill NSJ. We got a stack of Hollerith cards that represented activities at particular times and locations. We would rifle through the stack each day and swap for adventures that interested us. I arrived at a few (orienteering, the dive tank, and pioneering) as a singleton.

BTW, it doesn’t have to be a campout. Small service projects that only need a handful of guys are great ways for introverts to find their way in the troop.

If you’ve seen how they behave on campouts enough to think that it’s their personality and not lack of skills, I think it’s a great idea. My SM took a lot of time with us as individuals, and it was a good thing. For example, on one campout in the back of a fellow scout’s cow pasture, he came up to me with a capped metal tube and said, “I think you’ll find this interesting.” It was a WW-1 canvas box kite. Indeed, I was one of the few boys who were still mucking about with kites at that age, so I took to flying it while my patrol went about KP. It gave me the freedom to have my “introvert” space. And, once I had it aloft, it gave me something that I could hand off to other scouts when it was my shift to do something.

The scenario being imitated here is that of a formal cruise or a Navy junket. So, I would suggest the scout use his own or a similarly sized friend’s pants. If they are too large the scout would find them unwieldy. (Although “acquiring” pants from a larger fellow passenger is a possible means to an end in this scenario, it’s probably not one we would want to encourage.)

More humble brag, “my” scout gives a nod to his roots in the following interview: https://www.yourcommunitypaper.com/articles/cp-interview-patrick-connolly-explores-central-florida-for-a-living/

@5thGenTexan, it sounds like you’re in an ebb cycle. It happens. I’m afraid uniforming won’t help. The age pyramid in your troop has collapsed. That’s not bad, but it will try all y’all’s patience. You’re in a “lead the horse to water” situation with your SM. You can share your vision with him, but I suspect you’ve done that. If there’s no other adult more to your liking who is willing to step forward, you must proceed with who you have. I’m gathering that syrupy sweet doesn’t come easy for you, but your best bet is to find one thing that this SM does right and heap on the praise. The SPL is your key, but the lock seems pretty stiff. There might be a way to loosen it. In that 15 minutes of chaos before the SM arrives, have a special treat for the him and the PLs and assistants. It could be a snack, it could be a round of cards, darts, swap some patches, whatever. Something just for youth leadership to engage youth leadership. I sat in on “mini-PLCs” on the SM’s behalf for a year until he was ready to grab those reigns. Again, your goal here is to get to know these youth. Inform them of the next NYLT or other training. And figure out what it would take to get them there.

I sincerely believe that historically, the causality has been the opposite of depicted. As some troops in the ‘80s and ‘90s took uniforming less seriously, more adults were encouraged to wear a field uniform “as an example” to scouts. This was an attempt to get adults to communicate “I’m willing to wear this proudly, you should be willing too!” Like every social experiment, there are successes and failures. I’m not sure how much one vs. the other occurred. There’s no real poll of the amount of uniforming one way or the other … only anecdotes from scouters when they don’t like how their people are using (or not using) the method.

The assumption is flawed that scouts’ uniforming is dependent on adults uniforming. Growing up, we always looked sharp for our BoR’s, and none of the committee wore a field uniform. Half of our SMs did not wear a uniform, and we still dressed in our field uniform. That’s because we regularly had uniform inspection. Currently, none of our committee wear uniforms, and our SM and ASMs do most of the time. Most of our scouts show up with the uniform shirt on every week. If your problem is scouts not looking sharp, then that’s your problem with the scouts, don’t bring the adults into it. Do your best to wear your uniform regularly. Apologize to the scouts any time you are not in uniform for a meeting or troop activity. And teach the scouts what you and the world expects of them. If your problem is that you’d prefer adults to appear looking sharp in field uniforms, tell them that is your personal preference. Thank them when they show up looking sharp. Leave the kids out of it. Remind everyone about the most important part of their uniform … Their Smile.

So far, I haven’t met scouts who settled for aging our at Life because of his badge. The boys who I’ve polled seem to have enjoyed the badge. Especially compared to the other citizenship MBs.

I didn’t see any of that. I encouraged the scouts to make the evening enjoyable around our troop campfire, which is situated conveniently lakeside. They seem to have managed to do that without much grief. (I wasn’t present because there was a bunch of close-out stuff for me to do.)

Well, if by future you mean two days later at home, there’s room for pessimism. From what I witnessed of the scout-mom interaction, the parents have a tough row to hoe. All we had left was the nuclear option of confining the whole troop to the campsite. I pushed that button for the sake of second- and third-year scouts. It’s a healthy lesson to know your actions impact others.

I love that “primordial goodness” bit, until I butt up against the head of a scout who picks and chooses the points he wants to obey. The day after a critical incident, the kid literally rattled off the law, skipping “courteous, kind, obedient.” I corrected him on his omissions and said, “You made vows. They define what a scout is. If someone is the opposite of 1/4 of those things, they are not a scout. This is a scout camp.” He tried, poorly, and still had to be sent home. After that, I dealt with self righteous older scouts who should know better but disregarded the same points of the Scout Law — justifying doing so on the shaky grounds that it was their last day of camp. I’m becoming more generally comfortable with the notion of total depravity, and our need for something to stand as a metric showing how we don’t measure up. That said, I still try to dig deep and take a play from Aquinas to find the underlying good motivating a soul’s bad actions.

The net purpose, as with anything in these forums, is to give us a pulse on our nation’s and our world’s youth who enter and leave BSA. I manage to only provide a handful of scoutmaster conferences on youth in my troop, and have other meaningful conversations with youth and scouters (some of them minorities) outside of my troop. That’s not a representative sample. And, when one of these people ask probing questions about why things are the way they are (be it membership policies or taught line hitches) I find the frank observations and reactions on this forum to be invaluable. As to the OP of this thread, two troop alumni were able to come retrieve a youth from camp, but regardless of any training they may take, they won’t be able to serve as one of my second adult leaders on a camping trip for another two years. Most scouters around the world find this to be perverse on multiple levels.

The German scout association is an example of a highly federated system. It’s a very interesting model to observe. We see hints of it here in the very different uniforms of the various youth.

Please let the devotion be titled “What To Pray When You See Your Rope Fray!”

If it’s any consolation, I was talking to a mom whose kids are in sports and their fees are climbing as well. A sinking tide grounds all boats.