qwazse

Agree with SN and DT, just tell your DE you've got several parents who disagree on what they want for their boys, a capable SM and CC, boys who will follow them, and a willingness to start a new troop. If there's another CO available, and they generally agree with how you want to implement the program, go there. If not, become that CO. That way you take the high ground and minimize ill will.

Okay, I have a moment to play crumudgeon with opposing view ... Why should your Philmont, NAYLE, Seabase, patch be any more special than some week long council patch? What about some patrol's handmade patch for a 10 day adventure of their own design? Why isn't being able to put a dozen patches on the back of your MB sash enough?

Spring Break theme?

Pioneering: bridge building/pumpkin chucking. One year, our district held one at the Pittsburgh Trolley Museum.

Unless the COR is not representing the chartered organization, you'd best move on. Just because the pros support the COR, does not mean they won't support the former SM and CC if they find another organization willing to house them and the patrol of boys who want to carry this forward. In fact, the DE may have been talking up scouting to a potential CO which would like to field a troop, but does not have seasoned leadership. Hope you can encourage the SM and CC to keep on scouting!

The latest annoyance for me: every navigation link I click on opens a new tab. Don't like having to close lots of tabs, would rather click my browser's "back" button if I care to see the main page again.

No UC is better than a useless one. Often you get the same result as you would talking to those couple SM's you know. Lot's of scouters would gladly do the work of UC without the patch. You'll almost always get split opinions from us ASMs, we all know we're just one step away from being stuck in the same quagmire as the SM's. The CC is doing the right thing for his position. You really only need him to help you think through serious discipline issues. If the worst problem is Chuck and Joe not being on top of their calendar's, you're golden! Like BD said, there's no rush to fill that SPL/ASPL position. The PL's can take turns presiding over meetings until your next election time. At that point, if your troop hasn't grown to four patrols, the boys may decide that they don't need an SPL, or one very strong leader will come to the fore, and the boys will elect him.

Camoprees, Woodbadge, camping every month. (That last one is why I pack in extra coffee. You never know who you'll cross paths with in bear country, but it's likely to be your kind of scouter.)

Not too harsh at all. I asked SM to do the same for Son #2 when he was shirking in his SPL responsibilities due to the soccer season. If I can fault you for anything, it's wasting the time typing. Eventually you'll learn to say save those bytes about hours of your time etc. Bottom line: Boy did not do job. Time to find another boy who will step up. That's all you need to say. Secondly: Missing CoH is a big deal, even if you aren't leading it. It shows where priorities are. It would be nice if a boy tells you those priorities in advance, but many times they don't even know what they are. Yes, Mom is more involved than should be, but Boy is not communicating clearly to Mom about priorities. It's a vicious cycle that is very hard to break. Better luck with the next boy.

Stosh, I agree. And every MBC should have a "look at this and tell me what you see" attitude. But, the requirements in these two MBs spell out very different approaches. At first glance, it seems that it's going to take a lot of creativity to make Sustainability as observation oriented as Environmental Science. I guess those hours in the woods watching and waiting for wildlife was one of the more memorable steps on my trail to Eagle. I'd like to think every scout on that trail would experience something of the sort.

Unless she hates plaques as much as I do! Flowers and chocolates with a card (or neckerchief) signed by the boys would be wonderful. Whatever you decide, if the boys present it to her with a hug and kiss from each boy, she will cherish the memory forever.

I feel sorry for the scout. Now, he'll have to learn from someone else that "squeaking by" really limits your options in life. Sooner or later, real ability and true resourcefulness matters. Sometimes, not earning something is the best favor a parent can do. Regarding your troop search, it is really hard to judge just by their age. A bunch of 11 year olds who are planning the year on their own is as good as a cluster of older boys who sit on their hands waiting for adults to tell them what's going on. If the SMs/ASMs have some outdoor experience and are just trying to get something new started, it might be the right place for a bunch of young boys to grow up together. A visit may tell you a little more. There is absolutely no harm in finding out the meeting nights of every troop and sitting in on meetings or joining up with activities, then you and dad talking to your son about what he liked (or didn't like). It might be the foundation for more important conversations later!

The problem is that EnViSci requirements are largely *experiments* and *observation*. Sustainability requirements are largely "design" and "engineering". So regardless of how diligent he may be, a boy who doesn't like one may choose the other. It's been mentioned in other threads that scouting is traditionally a sport of observation. There has been a shift from that to one of informatics and activism.

If it's all that much easier, why aren't more boys earning it at age 14-16 like they used to? I've seen boys in my troop not earn it at SMC or BORs, basically for a failure in scout spirit. And most SM's I meet are very concerned about being to lenient with their boys. So I think a boy still has to work at it to earn it in most troops. So what's changed? Well back in '82 there were a lot of troops like yours where nobody tried to make eagle. Fewer SMs and ASMs were Eagle scouts. There weren't as many adults and older youth who said to a boy, "This award is well within your reach." It was very much like the situation is with venturers today (where you can easily find a crew like mine where not one person has their eye on a Silver award.) Are there "rolled off a mill" Eagles today? Yep. But -- and this is important -- there were also "rolled off a mill" Eagles back in '82. I don't like it now and I didn't like it then. But, for example, my scout/venturer who passed his BOR last night is all the Eagle I was at his age. My impression is most Eagles are "all that." Let's encourage everyone to keep it that way while still doing our best to nudge every first class scout (the term, not the patch) to make a run for it!

So, is he up for being on the receiving end of some tossed pies?

I like sentinel's district's approach. The problem SMs will have with expecting boy's to have input at a district level is the same problem they have when boys get into organizing district/council/area activities via OA and Venturing. It takes the boys' time and energy away from the troop. Making troops rotate into district responsibilities blunts that edge by making a district event one or two troops projects. As far as district naming rights go, it depends on how much the boys "own" their district. My youth have no clue as to our district's name. When our councils merged; however, we had a naming contest and a patch-design contest and expressly sought youth input via an E-mail campaign. It built a lot of enthusiasm for what was in fact a very tedious restructuring.

Looks like it's an "on average" sort of thing. Every troop deserves to have a scout or two with zero interest in MBs and scouts who earn 2+ outdoor MBs each year to offset them! Personally, I would count new scouts in the number somehow. At the very least, I would count them as 1/4 each since they had a quarter of the time to participate. If you did have a fall MB challenge, and they had reasonable access to the councilor, I would count them as 1. If you do use these things, do them in a way that motivates boys to amp up program and provide opportunities, but does not discourage them from bringing their friends in at any time of the year.

Not disagreeing with you, MT. I make my crew work through the JTE even though we've come up short of bronze every year so far. But there is such a thing as overkill. How is this any different than JTE gold?

Just one more piece of paperwork that nobody cares about. It's not even a challenge. Why should we bother to tell national or council that we are doing what a troop should be doing anyway? Now a challenge, IMHO, would be: - Troop provides opportunities for 20 camping nights a year (whether this is part of an annual calendar or not makes no difference to me) - At least four of those are independent patrol hikes and campouts. (4 nights per patrol, on average.) - At 1/3 the cost of a national high adventure base or summer camp, troop hosts its own week-long activity that may include any of the following: -- Intensive training in 3 merit badges of the PLC's choosing, counseled by qualified members of your community -- A 50 mile hike -- A 150 mile canoe river trip -- A 200 mile bike ride -- A day-long conservation project (this may be led by a scout as part of his Eagle or Hornaday award projects). -- With the assistance of the CO scouts host a religious service in a community park. Note that I have ZERO interest in counting bodies. Sure 50% is a fine target, but if you have 3 or more patrols in a troop, then patrol outings by definition constitute only 33% (or less) of the troop.

Agree with MT. Something like: join our online discussions at . Current topics: . Get your forum link on every piece of district mailing. At roundtable recognize the best forum discussions, and maybe even read an interesting post as for an opening.

I think you have a good plan. It sounds like the biggest decision (or sets of decisions) for you all are how much gear will be acquired by individuals, and how much by the troop. If your boys are like mine, they will come to appreciate the benefits of accumulating gear on an individual basis. Not the least of which is that when they are 18, they'll be ready to grab their gear and go wherever with whomever however they need to. But as you grow, especially if you get a dozen newbies at once, you may need to acquire more gear that will be held in common. It will be interesting to see what kind of gear the boys decide that should be.

Wouldn't the lack of awards from the den at a pack meeting tell you the same thing?

At a mid-year college class graduation dinner today, only one of the graduates included Eagle Scout in their bio sketches. I know there were a few more than that in he class. Other students acknowledged God, their religious fellowship, fraternity/team, their parents, their friends, or present/future spouses. Point is that Eagle has different value for different boys at different times. And although that probably changes little for most guys over time, other things loom larger or smaller in immediate value at different stages in life.

The bottom line here, I think, is that you can only fix what people are willing to change. Put your support behind the SM and help him as best you can. If people aren't living up to the desired standards of courtesy and kindness, the SM has to tell them so. If they are unwilling to change, hard decisions have to be made about who stays and who goes. I'm taking in feedback from others constantly about how to improve my behavior on a number of fronts. So, as far as I'm concerned, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I said I dint want to hear it ... But anyway ... Highest ranking youth picks the station (or in my case the MP3 player that gets hooked in), and the station must change/shuffle if I hear uncouth speech or more than 5 seconds of sales pitches, and nobody shuffles when Kansas or Diana Krol is being played. Like Kudu indicates, these stories are rife with Christian themes, and I'm more than prepared to bring it up with the boys. But that works best when the boys have ample control over the song/story selection. (Interestingly, I have noticed that girls aren't as interested in getting into the philosophy of what they listen to as much as boys are.)