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I'm pretty sure that none of our guys asked to put their post-prom outdoor slumber party on their camping night tally! Even venturing-related activities were on them to record. I made it clear to (already overwhelmed) troop advancement chairs that they were under no obligation to follow the crews calendar ... it's on the boys to give them those records. (Same should have been for troop overnights, but that was someone else's tree to bark up.) And you're right, that the troop's key adults would likely snub a plan for a night like this (worries about girls, alcohol, driving, ... not being on the calendar established last year in his absence). That's not the point. Soaring is the point. Mr. SM: "I've never been asked to approve anything like this before." Mr. Life: "I know sir, but is it a good plan?" Mr. SM: "Look, the committee won't let me sign off on it!" Mr. Life: "Sir, that's okay. Is there something wrong with my plan? Am I putting my buddies at risk?" Mr. SM: "Well, no. It's as solid as anything our camping director comes up with. But ..." Mr. Life: "Thank you. Sir! Your feedback is invaluable to me. Now, I've got to go let my friends and some caring adults know we're good to scout on ... albeit without the BSA. Would you like an invite in case you have the night off?"

At least you weren't throwing chairs! Everyone's eyes closed? Sounds like a good ol' revival tent meeting. I suspect National faces a steady lobby of proposals and counter-proposals. They don't currently face a ground-swell of COs looking for this sort of program. Maybe they will within the decade. Maybe not.

If they can't do it in scouts, our schools will be invaded: http://www.wpxi.com/news/hempfield-area-hs-warns-of-dangerous-behavior-connected-to-squirt-gun-assassin-game/217221857# In related news, Son #2 bragged to me that he is the first Freshman in the history of his college youth fellowship to be in the final four of assassins. (Grades aren't too shabby either. I guess always looking over one's shoulder makes one pretty attentive.)

It sounds like you're in the right frame of mind to enjoy this course. Just some words of warning: Keep in mind that a given demonstration will be of what's in the book + what that person thinks is the best way to do it. So for example, a cub leader came back and busted on my tying the taught-line hitch wrongly. (Last hitch was counter-clockwise to the others going clockwise. Lays flatter and you can make pretty braids with the tag end.) I said, "But, it's holding the line taught. And that's what it looked like in my book. (Minus the macrame.)" She said, "That's not the BSA way. We can't sign-off on any boy who does it that way." I'll spare you the remainder of the discussion. I later looked in Son #1's book and saw that his picture was different from the one in my handbook. When I took IOLS, the instructor pointed out that different guides (and different editions of the same guide) pictured it differently. There was no difference in knot strength and function either way. So, expect to learn enough to begin to enjoy yourself a mile or more away from your car. But really use the time to get to know the instructors. You'll likely see them again at roundtables and camporees.

Yep. I'm a "by the book" kind of guy ... to the annoyance of crusaders and jihadists alike. But, in terms of how to handle oppression? Well, I'm sorry, I didn't write those rules. Sure, there's the paperwork. Push it. Odds are in the boy's favor. But, being proven right is not nearly as satisfying as living right, P.S. - Son #1's posse had an overnight campfire/campout after prom. Well worth the price of admission, I'm told.

@@Phrogger, rule #1: don't ask for rules ... they'll make them for you, and you'll regret it. Seriously, the routine in most troops (even mixed age patrols) is to bunk the youngest scouts together. Now, in my crew, it's a rare day when we put up a tent ....

Like @@Beavah, I believe the best solution continues to be the fun one. Since this topic started, the boy could have called his patrol mates, picked a weekend (this one's looking real nice on the East coast, btw) and location and have the menu planned. The plan could include a hike to the beneficiary for his signature in the workbook and inviting the MBC to evening campfire for the blue card (and maybe generate some interest amoung younger scouts in starting the badge). Someone mentioned holy writ, well, "if compelled to walk a mile, go two." Bling vs. the Lord's favor ... You choose.

That's because the half of us that do walk on water, know we won't the minute we start thinking about it .... blub ... blub ... gurgle...

There are two ways to look at this: Numerically, Nationally, it's shrinking. Like @@BadenP says, you ain't getting help from council. Most DE's have figured out that venturing is a tough sell. Mainly because folks in many American communities believe in a segregated program. But also because high-school kids are diverse. Venturers can be nearly invisible to some councils. So, you need your community to rally around the cause and support it. When that happens, it's magical. The kids see that they can brainstorm a crazy idea, and very likely find an adult nearby with the connections to make it happen. A few of these develop loyalty to BSA, and really put their heart and soul back into council. The kids in the green shirts become "the few, the proud." So, if you're all about the numbers, there's nothing in going co-ed for you. Venturing is the test case. Unless BPSA or Campfire start publishing exponentially growing numbers, you've got no favorable statistics. If you're about the seeing widest pool of kids possible getting a vision for hiking and camping independently with their mates ... depending on your community, a co-ed option might be an easy sell.

In the recent "adult-lead troop" and other topics there's a discussion about ASMs who can't take step back from the youth management of activities. And their was a little debate about if this behavior is more likely among former scouts since their entire career had been fully engaged with the youth and now a switch needs to be flipped. Well, maybe that's why we need to move some boys into a JASM position. Maybe if they spend that last year "stepping back" and helping to do some adult tasks: possibly advising a few Eagle projects, helping the treasurer balance the books, maybe even a little promoting scouting at the district level. Maybe they'll be better prepared to serve as ASM.

Oh, how cute. You actually think that is the takeaway from the Venturing YPT course. Suppose it's there, albeit implicitly, then, why isn't it in the Boy Scout YPT? If BSA really cares, why aren't mandatory certifications for Venturing's videos about date rape and sexual harassment required before accepting a youth application? You might be on to something. Maybe the YPT course should include a photo capture feature so the student can embed an instagram-ish picture of them taking the course on the certificate!

From time to time we've had very young cross-overs. They've done well, with the usual ups and downs. Sometimes it's nice to have friends who are in middle and high school. If he's friends with any of the Bear scouts, point out that he has the chance to race one more PWD with them. If he's closer to the older scouts, as he moves into the troop, help the troop find activities that suit his tastes. Not sure if anyone in your council is starting STEM scouts, but you may want to give them a call to ee if there's a lab near you.

Unbeelievable!

So @@Krampus, how about gathering all of your trained 18 y.o. ASMs and asking them how many would feel like taking the Venturing YPT. ... Right now, or you'll drop them from the charter? The DMV get's you decent drivers and vehicles, the IRS gets you armed forces, pictures of other planets, and payments on yesteryear's social programs. What does Venturing YPT get you that Boy Scout YPT does not? Especially for a youth who's already been venturing for 4 years? I agree, but ... This has nothing to do with patience. This has to do with valuing the time people have to spend on your specialty program.

They already filled out the app for ASM, they already took one YPT. Plus, for Sunday school or whatever youth program they may volunteer at, they are filling out 3 sets of paperwork and taking another state-mandated program. Plus, they've registered to vote, filled out selective service applications, applied for college, secured loans and scholarships, etc ... They can plan an event in 30 minutes. So, what you effectively are asking them to do is to plan one less event for their crew in what time they have allocated for scouting. At some point it stops sounding like they are seeking truth, fairness, and adventure in the world and just shielding big wigs from litigation.

First, check with your council camp director. They may be having the same problem. There is a way to rig a wooden 2x2 (i.e., split an 8' 2x4) with some hardware to function as a ridge pole. It's pretty reliable, although the end holes have to be countersunk wide enough to sink down on the verticals so as not to torque the ends. "Plan C" would be to rig a ridge line with ~1" rope from ground to pole to pole to ground. This requires tying stop loops just right, and extra stakes, but tied right, can allow a roof to drain quite nicely in a deluge.

This thread is not about some tangential programs. It is about COs having the option of implementing BSA's core programs (Cubs, Boys, O/A) for both sexes.

That's a big huge crock. People who are in the habit of jumping authority will do so without discrimination. I've never pulled the "Youre not the SM" card on any adult who thought they needed to correct me. I took plenty of stuff under advisement and followed the best advice (usually that meant the handbook). It's like what Mamma told me when I was bullied, "Get big." By that, she meant that she was not gonna stand up to my oppressors for me, at least not until I held my ground and let my erstwhile buddies know that they may have at it, but tears would no longer come readily. It's not a matter of what the adults will heed. It's a matter of the scout doing his best.

Well, the league may lose it's status by default. But the kids are having fun and maybe learning to hit against a really good pitcher.But, wait! Is that little Johnny's dad stepping up to the plate as his designated hitter?

There are cultural/language variances. Bottom line: the SPL needs to draw clear lines ... even if others are inclined to cross them. Most adults will keep on doing what they will until they hear from a youth leader. Then, they will either apologize, nod in acquiescence, or sputter and fume. If it's the latter, the youth may need to defer. Ideally he can ask another leader to help resolve the issue. Regardless, keeping silent is a guarantee that everyone will think SNAFU and let the squeakiest wheels have their fiefdoms.

I can think of 3 things: Remind the adults that if we love our boys: show it by respecting them and each other. Insist the COR and CC identify the interim SM by next week. Then you all huddle around that QB. It might not get the championship, but at least you'll be in the play-offs. Teach the SPL the line "Respectfully, sir, this is a boy's meeting." Even the adult side-bars should not be had in the absence of the SPL. Three straight meals of PP+J and asparagus for boys who don't plan. (That includes blowing off KP.) How is this complicated? Provide adult education opportunities while the boys are meeting. You need to boil down your laundry list to two or three three things. You ain't fixing anything if you're trying to fix everything at once. I could give you my priorities, but that's because I'm thinking about what I need to do with my people, not yours. Really, your wife sounds like she has some focus. Let her help you nail this down.

I ain't flaming anyone over their pack style if they can still afford some quality coffee and an espresso pot (not to mention parachord and some rated biners)! My family is leaning hard toward internal frames. But, they also don't rig gear as much as I do. There are a lot of times when the middle of my pack remains untouched for several trips because everything I really need is in a pocket or tied/clipped on somewhere. The back-webbing is probably the best tech improvement in packs over the years. Used to be odd-shaped gear knew how to "find" that one sore spot in your back and rub it right raw if you didn't stop then and there and repack. New question to the group ... these tech materials lose water resistance after a while. Is that a "pitch the pack" factor for you? Or, do you just invest in the cover/garbage bag/tarp to compensate? The old canvas never really resisted water, so that was never an issue. From the get go, we knew if we didn't get the poncho cinched, the gear was gonna be soaked.

What a lovely platitude! Examples, please? How about getting on the horn with the advisor of that reenactment crew of yours, ask him to get his young adults who might also wear both ASM and Crew participant hats, and relay what they think. Get them online to say how they've made peace the YP requirements. This isn't a one-sided request. I intend to get some constructive feedback at our Area Summit this weekend. I'll let you all know what I learn. Because what I think I really need is to show my young adults that Venturers across the country are sucking it up and getting it done.

Yesterday a newly-young-adult venturer said "BSA has taken the fun out of being a young adult scouter." I'd like to hear from others "in the trenches" with dual registered young adults. Maybe I'm just in a bubble of negativity. FWIW this young man is "the go to guy" for instrumental back-up at his school musical. His older brothers are always welcome to drop by and pitch in there, nobody there asks them to fill out paperwork to serve along side these impressionable youth. They simply don't have the patience for this sort of thing.

Don't be like most scouters. Park a mile from every campsite ... Keep those 4wD SUVs out of the mud! I'm not discouraging the purchase of gear because you'll never use it. I'm encouraging borrowing to give you a chance to try out gear before you buy something that will not suit you during the years of use you'll put on it. My sons left for 1st year cub residence camp with packs on their backs. Son #1's 1st backpacking hike was when he was a Webelos II.