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@@Krampus thanks for the update. Tonight will be significant. No doubt you'll find what the Good Lord has for you to say, and will say it well. The more important thing is coaching the boys going forward as they find ways to remember their buddy and attend to his family. That's a matter of being attentive as time passes and nudging and encouraging in a quiet manner as time goes forward.

Lacking prior information, we don't know how much this was originally a negotiation between the SM/CA and the founding members of the crew. I've met several guys who wore both hats at the same time. From what I gathered, this was a strategy encouraged by the council (and no doubt from national) to "jump-start" crews. The thinking being that an SM would make the best advisor and could easily channel his outdoor enthusiasm to support his troop and a general interest crew this was true for one in three guys. The other guys I met were bitter about the process -- the one especially so because he could not get tiger-parents to stop helicoptering, and having his older scouts almost automatically registered with the crew mad things worse. So if it works or not, it is an official BSA program in that it has been aggressively promoted by BSA professionals. Even now, every pro I know would endorse such a program were a COR to give him the charter applications. So, it continues to be a BSA program, even if the patrol method is set aside for the sake of free-wheeling teens. @@Scourge, if you can spare the time, get your crew to take Introduction to Leadership Skills for Crews and sign up for NYLT (and eventually NAYLE). Get the boys to take Introduction to Leadership Skills for Troops. It will give you a baseline with witch to judge how a crew should managed. You wouldn't be the first youth/young adult to realize your unit could use an adjustment. @Sentinel's story is a good one to follow as to how he moved his troop towards better execution of the patrol method.

I'm taking folks at their word that the new requirements were bamboozling. Just tell them tiger was harder this year. They tried. But maybe next year they'll do better with Bear by diving in and getting busy starting in June! I know it may be stressful to see a bunch of little boys not getting a patch because scheduling was nigh impossible. But, as hard as it is for you all. It will be harder on national when they don't sell as much bling as expected. We can expect THAT reduced revenue stream will lead to a correction in a few short years.

Thanks for reviving this @@Scourge, as we all benefit from the boots-on-the-ground perspective. So let's take a for-instance weekend where your crew is sharing an activity with the troop. Does your troop operate in patrols? (Basically that would mean each patrol has their own campsite apart from the other adults. In a big open field there would be 300 feet of space between campsites.) If so: Where does the crew camp relative to the patrols? With whom do the dual venturers/boy scouts camp? What trade-offs in time and responsibility do they make? Are those of you who are only registered with the troop responsible for anything (e.g. a skit to the campfire, etc ...)? Who decides when something is crew-only, troop-only, or crew-troop activity? Lots of questions, but for readers who are trying to figure out how to make this work ... the answers may help them decide a course of action. Users may browse my replies to see how my crew worked, but generalizing from a sample of 1 is a bad idea.

Absolutely correct! A well-executed patrol method will enable precisely the opportunities for any ambitious kid to advance three ranks in a year. That's not what we're talking about when we say 1st class, 1st year, The problem arises when adults benchmark the troop based on the majority of crossovers obtaining 1st class in 12 months.

Glad you had a fruitful time. That was a pretty small course, so dispensing with the games was a really good idea. Over the long term, I think the best thing about those courses is you get to know some people in your district who really care about making scouting run smoothly. It's good to have their numbers. Good questions to which I have no pat answers except one: Abandon 1st class, 1st year ... and encourage every leader to do so. It's an abuse of the advancement method. Teach skills, and boys will advance. One rank a year is fine. 2 in one year and four years to the next is fine too.

You indeed have a dark and long road ahead. We'll walk it with you. By way of suggestion, here is what we did ... A select few ... mrs. q and the pastor talked and prayed with the family directly. Our council's director of field service provided counseling and did a lot of social work. I wrote a quick tribute, echoing some of the boys' feelings that I had overheard, and circulated it on the troop E-mail. Gathered the scout family together the next day. A quick prayer, then the boys played some games downstairs while we adults shed our tears. We agreed that nobody would talk to the press. The family certainly didn't want to, and we wanted our boys clear of any cameras. The pastor directed any inquiries, including the TV news van who tried to park outside the church, to the council service center. The family asked me to talk to one reporter for the obituary ... I gave her the statement that I had written for the troop. She was none to pleased that no other interview was forthcoming, I was courteous but firm that what I had written would be the sum content of any interview and assured her that we had not published it elsewhere. Scouts and scouters selected one hour when we would pay respects at the funeral home. Our Eagle Scouts were honor guards at the memorial service. Later, with the church and family's permission, we planted a tree in the boy's honor. It stands about 30' today. And means a whole lot to the mom for her to see it. On scout Sunday, we signed and presented a "Lost on the trail to Eagle" plaque. That's mostly what we did. I think it was all helpful. But, there's still a little hole left empty at CoHs and graduations, etc ...

More seriously, I think to hew to the spirit of requirement 4 (Discuss with your unit leader the acceptable standards and practices for using allowed electronic devices, such as phones and games, at your meetings and other Scouting events.), I'd make sure someone responsible to talk to each crossover about troop rules regarding electronics.

Up the creek without a paddle? No excuses!

Beading ceremonies at RT: once every 13 months. The district has a steak-out picnic for its last RT meeting. The chapter advisor has meetings on RT nights so arrowmen can car pool with their unit leaders.

Award them the one corresponding to their grade. Pick someone responsible (SPL, JASM), and have him sign the card, scratching out Cubmaster and putting the correct position under the line.

There is also this harsh reality: hours at work have increased, and commute times have more than doubled. Unfortunately both of those are not conducive to "phoning it in." RT has to be a place where scouters can solve their problems. Where they really take care of one another. Where folks go home glad they came. That means information, interactions, and inspiration.

Will do.

by way of retrospective disclosure: USGS topo shows the stream that was dammed to make Lake Arthur: Muddy Creek. In a broader picture of cost: Jambo has never attracted more than 5% of membership.

You know, all of this fussing about "preparing kids for Boy Scouts" is just a little ridiculous. A good church camp or a week visiting cousins can have the same effect. The thing that really prepares boys for troop life: aging. If it's gonna be a fun learning opportunity for you and your Cub Scouts, support it. If so,etching else happens to serve better, support that.

@@Grubdad, I would take it as a good sign that these adults want to hear from you. Over the years, I've learned to yell less. I let the SM know (usually while within earshot of the offending scout) that I have the keys ready if someone has to be taken home. (Honestly, with our conduct disorder kids, the parent has to be nearby and ready to do that.) I've learned to tell a boy that I know what we ask is tough, but he is tougher and can do better. I've learned that if another boy can say that to the kid it's even better. I've learned that a bad kid who knows to apologize to his buddies at the end of the day is worth his weight in gold. I've learned that riding shotgun on the ride home, a scout may reflect a lot. The boys in the back will be all ears.

If you're counseling a seasoned hiker, or a very athletic kid (say cross-country, not football), all of this is moot. They'll hike 5 miles for the requirement then run another eight to get ready for whatever tournament they'll be playing in. But, for the average scout, staging is a good practice to learn. So, even though it's not explicit, encourage your scouts to do the shorter hikes first. If he has hiked a lot seems to understand compass and map, but never done land navigation before, encourage him to double down and plan something with his patrol leader where he has to demonstrate those skills. But, if he hasn't mastered map and compass, make sure he goes on well marked paths or with a buddy who is solid in those skills and doesn't worry about navigation. That five miler, as KDD points out, should get knocked out in a couple of hours to build the kids confidence.

It does not. And, I suspect it's to shut the very back door that you're proposing. Frankly, once a bugler is a Life scout, I recommend asking him to become an instructor of music and train one or two first class scouts in the position. These guys can be hard to come by. For years we had 3, now we have none.

Not just bugler. Musician and Honor Guard don't count either. Let's rephrase the question: why does anything a scout does out of the kindness of his heart have to count for advancement? My crew invented the ad-hoc position of "Pack-Mule" for one well-deserving boy. Should he be able to use that for the trail to Eagle?

Don't count on it being easy on your wallet. The fee for BSA members will likely be increased because of demand, and to offset discounts to scouts from less well-off countries. Perhaps a call to scouts Canada to see if they need staff for a camp in Quebec. Maybe ease the wallet and offset the language deficit at the same time.

Nothing said so far goes against the reasoning that the PORs that count for advancement are ones that call for boys interact as much with other patrols as their own. Before a meeting, PLs determine "wolfs are service, bears are program, crows are spirit" during a meeting, PLs sound off regarding the exploits of their respective patrols. They then have their break-out sessions. At which time a couple of PLs decide to team up and have a JASM teach them ultimate catapult design. They reconvene as a group for spirit patrol to lead closing. Service patrol cleans up. At what point is this a troop activity? A patrol activity? Yeah sure. And your boys are hanging out with another troop for a weekend. Are they casting their independence aside?When they double in size, and camp on opposite ends of the field and the PLs cross to the middle in the morning and say "hike at noon, meals at four, capture the flag at eight, taps at ten, got a bugler?" ... Are they performing a troop activity or patrol activity?

@@Stosh and @@TAHAWK, all you have to do is produce documentation that PL has no obligation to the the other patrols in his troop. Any wording that says, for example, he is not obliged to attend any PLC, so long as the APL is available? But, I look at the PoR's for advancement, and the common thread is the time that should be devoted to more than your chosen/assigned fundamental unit in fulfilling that responsibility.

The answer is yes.

I remember from September's topic! Episcopalian. Pretty open minded towards all kinds of sinners. Sexual expression is the least of its concerns (much to the annoyance of the Anglican communion). That problem in itself seems to be Snarlys and maybe a few parents who never let their kids join in the first place. But, in this particular case, I'm not sure a CO would push for removal. They might even allow the leaders to part with the gear if the original CO is on speaking terms with the receiving CO. The real problem is a CO like this is trying to push for everyone to just get along without making any real effort to understand the dynamics. From their view, so what if someone said something in church that put one part "on the outs"? That doesn't mean they aren't welcomed in other circles. But, scouters don't compartmentalize that easily.