heat4212

Just know your unyielding, inflexible advice is making me hate scouting. Which I was pretty close to hating anyway because few parents in our Pack pull their weight. So the unhelpful advice of out-of-touch 'experienced' scouters + lazy millennial parents who sign their kids up for everything then drop and run + BSA launching a new, untested, unbalanced program = 3 less scouts. Thanks for the fun.

It's May 28th. The carnival didn't happen. I am a parent, not a den leader. So you are seriously saying our Bears are just out of luck and there is nothing they can do about it? Too bad boys, your leader quit, your parents can't help, no badges! You have admitted that you are not a Cub Scout leader or parent so why do you even troll this board? You do not know the new program, you argue semantics even when proven wrong, why don't you just let people who actually have experience with the new program offer useful advice and quit wasting our time.

Agreed. But it is a required adventure now, not an elective. Not a small part of another adventure, a whole adventure all by itself (including the prep work). Not only that, it forces the hand of the rest of the Pack. The Bears are supposed to do it a special event and work with younger scouts (so we have to incorporate it into B&G, camping, or a recruitment event... which usually are hard enough to pull off without adding more to them). In my Pack our Bear den leader just ignored this requirement. He never planned for it, he never mentioned it, and then quit the Pack in April. None of the other leaders stepped up to intervene. The other Bear parent was brand new and didn't understand that all opportunities to get this done had passed. The other leaders could barely manage to get their own dens' requirements finished up. My husband was Web I leader and by April I was scrambling over getting the Scouting requirements done with our Web II (who went without a leader the whole year because we used to do Web I and II together and realized too late that wasn't going to work anymore with the new program). It just so happens my homeschool co-op puts on a little "carnival" every Halloween. Older kids helping younger kids has always been a part of that (and my Bear's little brother was there who was a Wolf). Each family is responsible for setting up and leading a game, so he helped me with that. In April once I realized we were screwed on the Cub Scout carnival I had him make an award for a teacher at co-op, we talked about how we could do better next year, played a challenge game as a family, and I signed it off on the requirements. So I am just curious if anyone thinks I made a wrong decision and allowed my son to get his Bear rank (or "award" if you must) when he didn't deserve it. If you think what I did was okay, then all the preaching that has been going on in this post goes out the window. If you think my son should have been denied his Bear badge because I didn't follow the letter of the law (or handbook)... well then I am just glad you have no influence over my kids or our Pack because he did his best to complete the requirement under impossible circumstances and how can we expect an 8 year old to do any better? Just to be clear, here are the requirements for Grin and Bear It: Adventure Requirements: Play a challenge game or initiative game with the members of your den. Take part in a reflection after the game. Working with the members of your den, organize a Cub Scout carnival and lead it at a special event. Help younger Cub Scouts take part in one of the events at the Cub Scout carnival. After the Cub Scout carnival, discuss with the members of your den and your den leader what went well, what could be done better, and how everyone worked together to make the event a success. Make and present an award to one of the adults who helped you organize the activities at the Cub Scout carnival.

I might be stuck staying whether I like it or not! We can't find a new treasurer to replace me. The CM volunteered so he could get out of being CM... but he has not even finished paying for his popcorn yet, so no way he's getting the checkbook. So then he tried to volun-told someone and she told me she was willing to try but isn't very good with math or computers. Sigh....

I don't think any of you really answered meyerc13's question re: the Cub Scout carnival. This is the kind of event that you can't just repeat or make-up. So... you are saying, too bad, no Bear rank for any scout that misses the carnival? No exceptions? Or do you think it's okay for his parents to have a backyard carnival? Or for him to sub in his school's carnival? The book is pretty clear that it will be with "your den" "at a special event" (p. 98). And BTW, attending the carnival is required to complete Grin and Bear it Requirements 2, 3 & 4. So if he misses, he will only have 40% of that adventure completed with no way to make it up. I personally don't think there should be any requirements that can't be made up with family if they miss.

I have struggled with that question myself as Pack Treasurer. Our council pushes selling camp cards in the spring to cover the cost of day camp. But to get the early bird discount, most parents sign-up and pay for camp online before the fundraiser is even over! They usually tell me to just apply the funds earned to next year's dues or something in essence creating scout accounts! Since I have been in the Pack, our boys have only crossed over into two different troops. Both have ISAs so it's not been an issue. But if they didn't, now that I know what you all go through with buying items only to lose them, I would just offer the troop the check to reimburse them for the items they issue. It's a token, but hopefully these little things help the boys feel committed to their new troops.

That's too bad. That is not my experience, however. We do the bridge but the only boys that cross it are the ones who have been visiting scout troops and committed to a troop. A rep from their new troop attends the ceremony and is on the other side of the bridge. The scout is also given a check made out to the troop with a portion of his fundraising sales to seed his new Scout Account. (I supposed that is one way to make up for the lost neckerchiefs and handbooks!) I don't know of a single boy that has graduated from our pack in the past 5 years who crossed the bridge and then dropped out of scouting within 2 years. We do have a boy who is a Web II but he did not visit any troops or show an interest in continuing and therefore is not walking the bridge.

I love Scoutbook! It is not perfect, but last year our awards chair struggled mightily getting the den leaders to report scout achievements. They were a good group of guys, but not good with paperwork and documentation. With Scoutbook, parents can enter things themselves, and the Awards chair at least knows that something is out there needing to be signed off by leadership. Our CM tends to stroll around during meetings chatting up the parents, so we gave him the job of verifying requirements for the den leaders. No, it's not ideal, but it keeps things moving forward, allows us to have less than perfect den leaders, and the Awards chair stays sane! Plus it looks good and I find myself looking for ways to do electives while out and about. If we take a family trip to a museum, I pop on there to see if there is anything we could do. I hate it when we miss out on something because we took the trip but forgot to "ask a scientist a question" or "look at a collection." Plus as Treasurer, I know what the Awards Chair expects to spend and can give her a check at committee meetings to put in our Scout Account! When you run the report of what you need to buy, you can create a PO that estimates that total of all awards. I like that feature!

On ranks, according to scouting.org: "On the advancement trail, a Cub Scout progresses from rank to rank, learning new skills as he goes. Each of the ranks and awards in Cub Scouting has its own requirements. As you advance through the ranks, the requirements get more challenging, to match the new skills and abilities you learn as you get older." The word "rank" is used 62 times in my son's Webelos handbook -- the first reference being: "Your first rank badge -- Bobcat." It seems to me that Cub Scouts does indeed have ranks. On graduation, scouting.org states: "Graduation or transition ceremonies can be used when boys transition from one phase of the program to another on the Scouting trail." According to the guide, Cub Scout Ceremonies for Dens and Packs, "Transition ceremonies mark the transitions for Cub Scouts from Tiger Cub to Wolf, Wolf to Bear, Bear to Webelos Scout, and Webelos Scout to Boy Scout. They encourage boys to make the step up to their next challenge on the Scouting trail." This official BSA publication has a very detailed program to follow for a Transition Ceremony that should occur at the end of the school year. This is the ceremony we are having. I am sorry if the word graduation offends you, but it's another way to say Transition Ceremony which also very clearly does exist in Cub Scouts. Also Scout Shop sells a Cub Scout Pack Graduation Wall Certificate, Item: 620973. (Which if I had known this sooner, we maybe could've avoided this whole conversation).

I second debriefing the past leader! Then look at each requirement and make a list of everything that needs advance planning or can be done during an outing. Sit down with the Pack calendar and see if any requirements match up with Pack events (point out two birds, at a camp-out, for example. Or make up a game to add to the Bear Carnival for Games Tigers Play). Then plan for all the other stuff before the year even starts and give parents a schedule. This is a great resource for looking things up quickly and getting ideas for fulfilling each requirement: http://www.boyscouttrail.com/cub-scouts/tiger-scouts.asp

You should't have to convince the treasurer, only the committee. If they vote that's a good plan and there's money in the account, then there shouldn't be a problem! He can bring it up again at committee if his fears prove to be true. I am the treasurer in my Pack and my beef is that the awards chair expects me to run to the scout shop and top up our account every time she plans on going. I don't live anywhere near the scout shop and I keep telling her if she needs money in the account, then she needs to think to get a check at the committee meeting -- for the whole month! I am not running out there before every den meeting. I may as well BE the awards chair in that case. But I don't feel like I have the authority to just tell her no she can't have the money and overrule the decisions of the committee (who long ago voted to keep scout shop funds on hand at all times so awards can be bought frequently).

Then why is the big national recruitment push (School Night for Scouting) in Sept? We got 8 of our 19 boys at that event. If we relied on the stuff we did over the summer, then those 8 boys (over 40% of the pack) would just be out of luck. That seems like a great way to turn off the new people! Seems like ranking up should happen August 31st if they seriously want us to be able to plan for summer activities helping fulfill requirements.

Yes, Webelos is much easier than Bear for sure! I mean, you could probably figure out a way to dumb down those Bear things, but I made the mistake of showing our Bear den the carnival requirement and just asking them to brainstorm. Within 5 minutes they had planned a dunk tank, wooden ticket booth, striped tents, ball pits, and the works. Maybe they meant for us to just paint faces and play some bag games on the lawn, but as written, it's a monumental task! Webelos are just instructed to make a fitness course with some "obstacles". Took one den meeting. Also for some reason Bears have to plan and cook two different meals (one with the den and one outdoors... so neither is simple). Webelos just have to plan and make one meal for their family. My kids are Wolf, Bear, and Web II and my husband and I were Web I co-leaders, so the requirements are all very fresh in my mind!!

LOL I don't think this is the elephant in the room... I think you have made your view very clear! And I don't disagree with the concept that not every boy should get an award just for showing up. We've never handed out a badge, pin, or patch that wasn't signed off on (sure, the parents have probably fudged things tons of times but that's on them). Boys have gone without at many a pack meeting or event (such as Pinewood). But this is a graduation. Do the boys that don't finish their requirements get held back? Do they have to stay a Bear until they do a carnival? No. They get to walk across the stage and join the next rank. They get to graduate. So they DID earn something. Not a badge, not a pin, not an award, but by showing up all year and choosing to continue they have earned something.... even if it's just a new title. I just want to give them something that sends the message, congrats, you are a "Whatever" now! To me the badge is like the rope or cord on the graduation gown. It's a distinction and an honor, but at the end of the day it's not necessary to graduate and move on. Let me ask this... does it bother you when scouts are awarded their scarf and slide for the next rank at graduation even if they haven't earned the badge from the previous rank? I doesn't bother me.... But this year we can't afford to do that since membership increased so much (those dues won't be paid until the fall). So whatever we hand out is a stand-in for the scarf and slide. We are not giving them an award they haven't earned. Just recognizing that they are graduating and moving on. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. --Hey... maybe I will just hand them a picture of a scarf and slide!!

Personally I think it's all the other activities like sports that have made parents complacent. If they have to do more than drop-off and pick-up (like in sports or school clubs) they aren't interested! Some of our schools even have rules that parents can't get out of their cars when dropping kids off (supposedly for safety). It just re-inforces this idea that "someone else" runs their kid's activities. Since I homeschool, I haven't picked up those habits yet I guess! But it means I am the "someone else" at Scouts.... and I'll admit, I had a very hard time with that this past year!