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Been there. It stinks. Sorry. Yes, scramble and get a female adult leader. Call your council VOA to see if there is someone who can step up at the last minute.

Well, us being strangers on the internet, ignorance is par for the course. Part of the problem is the way BSA has made people feel "incomplete" if they don't make Eagle. All the ways your son mastered skills made him a first class scout. All the ways he provided service made him a star scout. All the ways he's continued his dedication made him a life scout. His attention to detail (especially given his busy schedule) may make him an Eagle scout. But even if he doesn't have the where-with-all to wrap up those camping nights and anything else, know this: he has completed what he started. I've seen collegiate valedictorians proudly have Life scout printed on their bios for their 10,000 other classmates and their loved ones to read. If he works his plan. That's just gravy.

Thanks for the update. Even if it's a little rough. If he doesn't have any friends among this year's cross-overs, I would suggest a new troop. Maybe one who goes to the same camp, but later in the summer. But it sounds like your boy may have a bad case of wherever-you-go-there-you-are. So there's no guarantee you'll recoup that $300. Just make sure he pays you back if he bails. You might need to work with him father-son style to enjoy the camping stuff. Ask him, "Do you really want to learn to pitch the troop tents? Ask the QM if you can check one out, and you and I will learn together this weekend." Likewise with the food thing. "Would you like to be better prepared the next time you get a smaller plate? What dried snacks would you like to pack as a 'plan b'? Maybe we could try some different kinds of noodles or jerky together." "Which scout do you like the most (hate the least)? Maybe we can invite him to come fishing/to a movie with us." And down the list of 1st class skills you go. Teach him how to crack open that handbook, do what it says, and see how it works out. This may sound like breaking the patrol method. But right now, his real patrol is his family. Give him some practice leading there and see where you wind up.

You are describing cultural purposes. Not political. One is the celebration of permissive sexual ethics; the other, of a lack of melanin.

As the requirement stands now, boys can camp in their back yard with their patrol every weekend and have it count. (Actually, some of my scouts' back yards abut some awesome game land, so the ASMs and I would wrestle over who gets to chaperon.) Think about this: Is the MB to prove that boys can camp? Or to prove that they are good at propping up troop numbers? If the latter, then change the MB name to "JTE Score Boosting." We have gotten so obsessed with protecting BSA's brand that we've missed out on how to promote the brand. Son #1 and I were once rigging canvas for our youth group at a music festival. This girl pipes up and says "I wish I could tie knots like that!" Cha-Ching: instant venturer. Actually two. Her brother saw her signing up for shooting sports and he joined in! Maybe the requirement should read: "... at least 50 nights ... half of which must not be scouting-related activities." It would be like introducing the world to our best scouts up-close and personal!

In what marketing universe? My book-learning may be outdated, but I was trained that the typical response rate to postcards is about 4% or less.

@@perdidochas, as an advisor, I have no problem with venturers working their crew using the patrol method. I have had problems with boy scouts working their troop using a club method. I don't know if it's the age range, mixing of sexes, or something cultural, but the propensity for boy scouts to sit on their hands when someone else steps in to work is much higher than with venturers. The PM makes those boys more responsible for the working of things. So, for NYLT, the lingua franca of the patrol structure is a better option.

Ditto. The fact that I could grab my brother's old gear, and spend a weekend not being asked to mow grass or shovel snow or till a garden -- made it worth hauling said gear a mile (or so it seemed) to a campsite. And that was back when you didn't get a replay of the races, so when you missed NASCAR, you really missed it! I think at one point my SM indicated that I was clocking about 15-20/year, and that was just with the troop. I just shrugged. It wasn't until I met boys from other troops that I learned that it was not second-nature for some. I only saw winter cabins from the outside. The smoke from their chimneys would sometimes obscure the view of a star I was watching.

What is this about? BSA over the past two decades investing in Lion Cubs and STEM scouts and divesting from Venturing and Varsity scouts. Most Mormon Venturing crews were male-only. No problem. But, the venturing program, especially the new ALPS has nothing to offer LDS in terms of the spiritual growth their parishioners expect from their youth. (E.g., there is no national conference of venturing males, there was a disconnect between what LDS women would like to see in their growth and what Venturing had to offer, etc ...) Why pay BSA for a program that detracts from what their parishioners want to see in terms of youth development? Especially one that BSA itself is not heavily invested in? That the youth of the nation have not embraced with enthusiasm? I think we'll still see a lot of Mormon boys working towards eagle. Just skimming their extensive list of "Young Men 14-18 Activities", there remains "Accomplish Rank Advancement" (https://www.lds.org/youth/activities/scouting/boy-scouts/accomplish-rank-advancements?lang=eng). It refers to the http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards.aspx -- a page that makes no mention of venturing awards. The LDS did not drop BSA. BSA dropped venturing for LDS.

@@gplundberg, welcome to the forums! And, thanks in advance for your service to our country ... and the boys! A few folks (the Mrs. and my adult kids) are still wondering when I'm gonna grow up, so I'm a "sort of" young ASM, But, I started back when I was 18, before Al Gore and I began building the internet, so I know how you feel. While you are roaming, you might also want to turn in an adult application to your current troop and sign on as unit scouter reserve or college unit scouter reserve. More details here: http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2017/01/19/college-scouter-reserve-lets-former-scouts-stay-connected-to-troop-crew/ This will allow you to maintain your registration without obliging you to take the scoutmaster specific training this year. You only need youth protection training, and maybe your state has some clearance requirements for youth volunteers (PA recently instituted some). Meanwhile, the younger scouts in your troop will look up to you any time you can drop in on a meeting or campout with a story or two about basic training.

Not necessarily. I believe we should count nights when a scout sets up camp for his youth group, school outdoor club, or family. The self-serving "recognized scouting activity" stipulation in the requirement flies in the face of the service-oriented character we should expect Eagles to be.

@@KentuckyScouter, welcome to the forums! And congratulations to your daughter. You should be proud. However, among seasoned venturers, she's no novelty. We routinely push our venturers into leadership and service, so NYLT is a natural draw for many of them. Since at that level, the odds of a venturer being of either sex are about even, and the odds of finding venutrers on NYLT staff are high if even only a couple crews in your council are functioning as they ought, it is more than likely that a female NYLT SPL will turn up from time to time. Are you sure this is the first time this has happened in your council? @Back Pack is correct. Unless she is from a small crew, or a large crew that operates small "activity committees", the patrol method will have only been a theoretical construct. She will have to sell it without ever having tried the product for several years continuously. But, unfortunately, that's not unlike scouts from many of our troops these days.

This ^^^ The biggest challenge in our post-modern nomadic culture is the practice of physical presence. A lot of us think 20 camping nights over 7 years hardly accomplishes that. So any alternative that leads a boy to think he can be a better scout by spending less time with his fellows is unacceptable. Fact is, I'd rather go back to the 50 night requirement and drop all of the stipulations.

Welcome, and thanks in advance for your service to the boys.

Finding it too much trouble (five summers in a row) to go down to aquatics -- or the community pool, or the Great Lake by my in-laws one cottage or ocean by their winter home -- to wrap up that Swimming MB partial, Son #2 earned hiking instead. His 20-miler passed four pools and two rivers. He recently failed a life guard qualifying exam. (Taken mainly to keep his girlfriend company, as she does this seasonally for her summer job.) In after action review he criticized me and Mrs. Q for never adequately teaching him to swim efficiently. I have half a mind to excavate that partial and give it to his girlfriend.

"nut", but did he make money (counterfeit or otherwise) at it?

No different than if I see a QM staring at the frame of a busted trailer ... I might challenge him to take a welding class. Or consider an internship with an auto-body shop. Not every good thing a boy may do has to lead to Eagle rank. Furthermore, as it is, Backpacking MB: Only requires 3x3day treks and 1x5day trek for a total (subtracting bookend days) of 10 camping nights. <Insert protracted debate over interpreting "day".> You don't necessarily have to sleep under canvas or less. <Insert protracted debate of interpreting "carry everything you need" when some campsites have adirondaks.> There is no stipulation to do any trek as part of a recognized scouting activity. <Insert protracted debate over whether those self-serving stipulations have helped or hurt BSA.> So right now, any SM could just challenge boys to try Outward Bound or AMC, and they could use what they've done there toward this MB. I'm concerned that a rather elegant hobby MB will become marred by specifications once we border the badge with silver.

If it's an "or", is it really required? I honestly i doubt that it will have the intended consequence. Look what requiring inviting one friend to a troop meeting has done for our membership numbers.

You were expecting chapter quizzes from the SM handbook?

As a general we ASMs and SMs pawn off our kids on one another. That way, no boy of a strong leader is under "the microscope." Still, Son #2 asked me to be his Eagle advisor. The other thing, respect the fact that your son will probably the one coming early and staying late to meetings on your account.

Hmm, can I believe it? Only if it's happened to someone else. Last night, the SM walked with me while we dismantled the proving course I had set up for 1st class land navigation (which both every team of his scouts and my venturers failed to complete). He wasn't bothered about that. He was rankled about the misplaced enthusiasm of cross-over parents who pushed their boys into a canned Cit. Nation MB class ASAP. His troop exists partly because my troop insisted on a youth-led model with no rank-inflation. He got swarmed with the crossovers, while our troop collected just a few transfers who were more interested in cut apron-strings than collecting bling. Now, we're stuck trying to restore balance. Yep. I can believe it.

Again, you ignore facts in evidence. O/A requires 15 nights. One summer camp, and 5 3-day weekends (including, but not limited to, cabin camping) in the span of two years, and the boy's in. Many arrowmen have not earned Camping MB. In fact, for some, that extra ordeal night might be what brings them to their 21st required for the MB. But, the real problem: SM's failure to instill a vision in PL's of independent hiking and camping weekends to suit their mates' needs and tastes. This could be because the parents gave the SM push-back. It could be that the SM didn't trust that his PL's were first class (concept not just patch) scouts. Or snow and cold scared everyone. Whatever. End result: @@mlc's son had no clue that he should have been lining up nights for himself with his patrol. (E.g., "Hey fellas, let's camp on the field by my game this weekend. It will give my team good mojo.") Heck, I'll nudge a PL to draft a plan to camp out with his guys by the ticket booth for some prime seats at their favorite concert the following month, I'd help them line it up .... maybe even call the owner of a restaurant to drop off a small order of fries to them. Other adults will never think outside of their unofficial boxes. Now the boy may be at fault in not detecting that his troop was underselling program to him. Maybe he should have read his handbook to know more of what to expect, forcing the troop to raise the bar. After all, reading a reference thoroughly is the first step in mastering any scouting skill.

Posted in '15. I'm pretty sure if it was last year it would be different.

That piece of fine print might have come in handy when our troops were merging. It's been generally a smooth process, but the young committee and SM were torn between CO's. We older scouters had our preference, but tried to stay out of it. That may have caused us to lose a couple of scouts.

Our current SE, she seems to be a pretty sharp tack. But, we have already groomed two CSE's for you all. It is a real pain when our people move up and we try to fill the vacuum they left with someone of not-yet-comparable skill. Time for some other council to start molding their exec for the job. Regardless, I know as many female as male scouters who are more stringent about unisex program than Mike Surbaugh. So IMHO, sex of the exec won't be a driving factor. I'd wager this: if our CSE or national president over the years are replaced by younger scouters -- especially those with international experience -- we'll see more of a push towards Scouting USA. If they are replaced by older scouters, we'll see a push towards unisex ... possibly even the marginalizing of venturing and other LFL program.