qwazse

Good point @@SSF. But at the Webelos level, we're trying to build sportsmanship so that they will be prepared to use completions to build fellowship, not isolate the disadvantaged.

@@Stosh, that was supposed to be +1. (Monday night hockey thumbs.) BSA has shown an inability to retain Venturers. That's not a failure of co-Ed per se, but it does show that the demand among COs for a coed you-led movement is thin. Without expensive promotion to gain national recognition over a number of decades That's another issue: there's $ for STEM. Where are the big donors to maintain the steam for @@NJCubScouter, I'd interpret AHG's #s two ways: 1. They haven't had a meteoric rise (although they were one of the few organizations BSA wanted to work with), so what evidence is there tha BSA would have any greater growth? 2. They have had growth while we haven't. Does BSA really think they'll cede their market share?

you've heard my "it's a big country" spiel which serves as my reply to the variety of local experience we see reported. I'll not belabor that point. I think the real 900 pound gorilla is American Heritage Girls. They are enabling sponsors to configure these joined units (at least at cub level) without the stress of forcing change on either organization. For a change to be profitable to BSA, they would have to win back those girls. I don't think counsels have it in them to compete against that model.

Won't help. War or college come calling on 18 year olds. If they haven't learned pass on high school activities, they won't be able to as adults. If scouts is a priority, boys will learn to call coaches on the carpet. If the boy is all that, seas will part. If not, it might be good to know it's time to occupy oneself elsewhere. Jambo conflicted with my senior year of band camp. Explaining that to the director, he said if I'm not at camp I can't march. I shook his hand and said, "No problem, I understand." I promptly went to the guidance counselor to change my schedule, and he asked why. (I don't even think I discussed this with my parents, because as far as I was concerned it had nothing to do with them.) I explained that it wouldn't be fair to the band, etc ... Something must have happened behind close doors, because the next day the director gave me an out and said he'd hold my spot. (Literally, there were photos of camp of with a gap in my section where I was supposed to be.) I didn't thank my counselor directly, but I did ask him to speak at my Eagle CoH. We are trying to solve the different school thing by getting patrols to schedule some activities on their own. Their problem is that a lot of boys pick their patrols for to be with their friends who they don't see in school all the time. So we haven't cracked that code. Bottom line: none of these extracurricular balancing acts are easy, but we shouldn't back down on what we expect from boys. Especially if over the years they've told us their goals, and we have picked up a sense of what it takes to achieve them.

I've called BS on all of that. Girls? I made a crew, bring them along. In fact, the current SM in the troop is quite easy going about that stuff. Girlfriends help on Eagle projects. Cars? Scouts use them to drive to meetings, camp, instructors, etc ... Jobs? They pay for camp, uniforms, the cars to get to camp, their family's needs, and a tithe at church. Or all of that stuff can get a guy some beers and bad romance. It's about priorities, and I have not met a coach (acting, band, or sports) who was bothered of a youth dedicated to scouting.

You mean that time when I'm asleep and some token incompetent (or worse) male adult could be up to no good with one of my boys?What risk do you think I'm taking by having a female adult if she is more trained and trustworthy, and the only one available? (Full disclosure: in my current cadre of adults, trained and trustworthy males are more available, so this is a non-issue for us - most always male youth - at this time.)

It seems to me that the girls who are asking for this are asking for the same program: requirements, warts, and all.The problem remains: how many such girls are there? Enough to offset they boys of parents who count on unisex membership as the selling feature of the BSA and GS/USA's brand? It's not about feasibility. Rogue scouters are doing this already (bling notwithstanding). So, it can be done. It's about market share, and in every instance except Indonesia at market takes decades to build. So, news, real news, would be ten thousands of families petitioning BSA for such a program for their girls.

Scot,By way of context, Foxtrot Base Camp is devoted to the Venturer's division of Jambo. Some in venturing have been pushing this vision for decades. These were the same who brought Venturers to the Jamboree as their own camp in the first place. So, the oblique statements of a CSE find resonance in this particular echo chamber.

@@Stosh, I have to confess, I don't follow my male co-leader into the bathroom all the time either. Sometimes the boys are stuck with one of us. So let's please keep the BS out of the BS of A.

I always insisted boys hand down neckers. I wish I would have insisted they sign or initial the edge before ha didn it down. It would be need to see who had he one with the most names.

JtX, thanks for elucidating. It seems to me that other Christian sects have made this decision long ago by never choosing to wholesale franchise their older youth programs via BSA in the first place. (You may get a church here and there, but certainly not entire denominations.) I think that stems from a sense in mainline denominations of finding individuals who are called and equipping them accordingly; whereas LDS had identified the equipment then called individuals. This worked for a while when the culture was less nomadic. But like you said, with late teen males' broad interests and many transient youth (and parents), the narrow focus wasn't getting LDS what it was seeing in other youth programs. Just like other denominations, LDS now sees scouting as merely a part of the solution to youth development.

Please understand that underneath our troop sign should be a subscript, "We take bad kids." So, yes, we've had to deal with scouts fudging paperwork and counselors feeling pressured to sign off for fear it would otherwise ruin the scouts life. Fortunately, we've also had reliable informants and committee chairs who dug their heels in and would not countenance more BS than is already in the BS of A. We could deny the boy rank advancement, and it did him a world of good. If you meet a boy who is a bit disorganized, and you think a worksheet would help, definitely suggest it. If you've seen a large number of boys stumble over the badges you've tried to teach, maybe suggesting a worksheet for those badges is a good thing. Maybe it's not necessary to have a boy get out a blank sheet of paper and outline for himself what he needs to do. But, would you really want somebody using a worksheet over your signature on a blue card as proof that the boy did or did not work through his requirements?

One year I took coils of silver parachord to wrap round mat in the bases of table markers for son #1's wedding.

I could think of things being made worse by dragging along certain registered 21 year-olds of the particular sex needed to meet "quotas". But @@RichardB, it has often been me and a female adult on overnights with the boys (or sometimes the girls). The participants, not the leadership define co-ed activities. Two-deep box checked.

My question: what do you need to know now that will change what you're doing if you don't hear it until June?

Either the first part of the scout law is for real, or you would need more than stacks of worksheets to prove what they want to prove ... videos for the "demonstrate" types of requirements ... chemical analysis of cooking samples from a certified lab ... remote sensing of the heat signature from their footprints on the trails they hiked ... Well, I hope you can talk your son's scouters out of this rabbit hole. It may have been because of a rotten MBC or a scout's forgery. But there is no point in micromanaging everyone else on account of a few incidents. We correct the errant individuals as we come across them and move on. It makes us all better people.

One other point. From acquiring enough boys who've earned the "behavior disorder" label. Sometimes the greater fear isn't of an attack, but of becoming an attacker.

Lol ... sounds like jihad 101. (By the way, blessed fast to our Muslim scouters.) I'll admit, when I first read that policy, it came off like BSA trying to protect its publications market share.

I have no problems with a worksheet as an aid to a boy. The need for such aid can be decided by the counselor on a case-by-case basis. I do have problems with it as a crutch for paranoid adults. How does a worksheet in someone's hand prove anything? Little sister could have filled it out for all we know. And, so what if Timmy borrows Johnny's worksheet? When Timmy meets the counselor, they can decide if Johnny got an answer different from the MB pamphlet, then determine if Johnny knows something the BSA doesn't. Everybody learns. Question @MzKelly: do they at least use the blue cards as spelled out on the card itself? (E.g., the scout holds onto his portion, the SM merely signs on it that he has received the unit portion.)

Boyscouts love paperwork! No, the worksheets are not required. Nowhere in the MB requirements of any merit badge pamphlet ever written does it say they are. IMHO, boys would be better off never even looking at a single worksheet, ever. For advancement tracking, the blue card tells all the story that needs to be told.

If it helps, let them know that folks here have their country in the center of their prayers. The courtesy that residents of Manchester had shown to stranded travelers has also been part of the news cycle. The malice of our sworn enemies should always be eclipsed by our compassion.

Do inform your boys that the BSA tan shirt trades quite well internationally. The right necker or two, would be worth the shirt off of their back.

Or .. wait for it ... ASCII instruction sheet. Blank paper. (Or graph paper. I've had good kitchen contractors draw up a decent design free-hand.)

Judging from the current National Leadership photos (http://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/about-the-bsa/national-leadership/), they have. But, there also was a brouhaha last year (I think) when Scouting published a photo of Wayne Perry in tan shirt and brown pants. Meanwhile, a couple weeks ago some scouts were going over first aid, so I asked them if they could secure their victim's sprained ankle. Cricket's. I say "Pity that we don't have a triangular bandage that we can fold into something that might brace a foot ..." Off comes a necker, and away they go!

How do you identify an inferior system? By the nature of its organization-wide mandate (http://www.scouting.org/Home/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/EagleWorkbookProcedures.aspx): The entire fill-able electronic workbook should be scrapped. Specifications for proposals and reports need only be outlined, and the scout writes out his proposal free-format in the legible mechanism that best suits his skills and resources. If a boy can't do that, then he's not ready to make rank. It's called sub-contracting. Welcome to the real world. If a district can't adjust to different fonts and styles, then they aren't ready to work with boys.