qwazse

Really? "quite well"? If "quite well" means fastest decline of all divisions, then it's no wonder BSA machinates over unpopular programs.

This is why millennial is a misnomer, and I prefer post-modern nomadic. It used to be if you got a new job 20 miles away, you up and relocated family to live within walking distance of the job. Now, committing hours a day to commuting past lots of places you wouldn't dare live is the norm.

I find all the marketing mumbo-jumbo nauseating. It's delusional to consider a Cubbette program without considering one thing: Cubs grow up and crossover onto a troop. So what would Cubbettes cross over to? Boyettes? Even burka-laden Saudis would think that stupid. I also find the paranoia about losing the "single sex safe space" overblown. However, I like you guys, and would rather not have your boys lose you on account of this. I'd rather them spend time with tons of co-Ed scouts from all over the world and put a BSA membership decision off a couple of more years until they've heard the good, bad, and ugly from them. In the meantime, I'd rather have honest partnerships that directs concerned families to Campfire USA, and elevates whatever recognition their program delivers. And, frankly, I'd rather NESA would shut up about Eagle already. We need more marketing of First Class scouts.

That was supposed to +1 NJ. Although, I would have put it more subtly: get a mirror.

Tell your SM to keep the BS out of the BSA.

To be clear, it's the US and Saudi are the only WSOM organizations who are unisex. Iran's movement has floundered since the revolution. Private parties are trying to restart it. It's not clear if it is co-ed. It seems to at least run parallel programs for girls and boys. (Gathered from pictures. I can only read about three words of Persian.)

My scouting career basically began with me going down to the basement and pulling my brothers' gear from the rafters. Then raiding mom's pantry for cans of food. No research involved. None of the stuff was anything I'd ordinarily buy. Same applied to my sister's stereo and abandoned records. So, this service might fill that gap (smaller families, fewer older siblings leaving stuff around the house). It's popular enough that they are still in business after a year. Still, if you can, give a kid some bills and a ride to a sporting goods store.

It must be a regional thing. I'm not surprised at all.

@@Stosh, we had a similar experience. Only it was a BOY scout from another troop untrained in the patrol method and patrol cooking. But, with our situation the options were integrate fully or go home. They opted for integration. When the only options are stay marginalized or partially integrate, it can only end badly.

For the non-allergic ... Peanut butter in the morning oatmeal.

Oh, sure. I really like our DAC. He personally attends to every Eagle project workbook. Guided my sons and many other boys in the troop very well. Is a go-to guy for Boy Scout rank advancement. Help me with disabled scouts and Medal of Honor candidates. Wears his tan field uniform quite well.How many venturing awards has he processed? He could count them on the fingers of his left knee! Maybe yours is better prepared. Ask when's the last he/she handled, taken a course on, or read all the requirements for the new venturing award. My advisors (advisors should always have good advisors) were found on the council venturing committee. Some things they'd give me a direct answer for. Other things it was, like "Have you asked your crew officers?" Or "Let your crew president give the VOA president a call." Who is your volunteer advancement administrator? Crew Committee Challenge makes clear that it's officers and advisors. My line to my crew about advisors: good for nothing and best used that way. So, you can read that line from the GTA quite literally, but the only people who should be contacting your DAC are your crew offices under your advice. In other words, maybe give them name of the DAC for them to call if they are at an impasse. But if is they conclude there is no impasse, there is no call to be made.

Although I agree with @@Stosh, that BSA opens the door for this kind of sentence-parsing every time they require bean-counting, I will insist that Venturing is not, nor ever was, designed for parsing syntax like you are trying to do! This is not your problem to solve. You can have whatever opinion you want. But, the ultimate decision falls on the youth, and frankly, your opinion might not mean a hill of beans to them. What you need to do, is prepare them to navigate choppy waters: Have your officers do this: Read the minutes your crew secretary published, and officers subsequently approved regarding motions for service projects. If a motion was approved for the crew to send youth representatives to Jambo to volunteer as staff, then it is a crew service project. If such a motion was made but subsequently overturned or no motion was ever made, then it is not a crew service project. If no minutes were published, fall back on your crew's calendar of events. If volunteering at Jambo was not on the calendar, it was not a crew service project. Frankly, if ScoutBook was worth the dime in electricity and internet service you all wasted to run it, it would automatically know to map the venturer's participation in designated crew activities to their service hour tally for each award. This would be logged, by the way, by the crew historian or secretary, not some member of committee. If your crew kept no calendar of events, then ask the BoR to choose its two adult non-voting members carefully so as to get reasonable opposing views on the matter. Hold the board for this venturer promptly so as to clear the air on the matter. Let this be a lesson to them that there is a downstream cost to not adopting rules of decorum in the management of meetings. STOP interpreting requirements, tracking advancement by adult leaders, and committee arguing about matters above their pay grade and yours. START making this about youth leadership (not leadership development, that's a method of boy scouting, not venturing). CONTINUE trusting your youth to do an excellent job by listening to the issues, conferring among themselves and touching base with their Council, Area, Regional, and National VOA if this is still a problem for them.

My crew doesn't have a problem with this because they don't care about advancement. However, I have had committee and parents take issue with my youth in a similar fashion, so ... My take? Ban Scoutbook. Through it information was leaked to a parent ... information which nobody besides the venturer and his/her advisor should be privy. The crew officers are responsible for discipline within the crew. That includes determining if a member is playing fast-and-loose with requirements. So says http://www.scouting.org/filestore/venturing/pdf/512-940_WB.pdf Discovery and Pathfinder Boards of Review Composition of the Discovery and Pathfinder Boards of Review Discovery and Pathfinder boards of review consist of the award candidate’s peers in the crew. The board is chaired by the crew president, unless the president is the subject of the board; then a crew vice president becomes the chair. There is no required number of Venturers for the board, but a group of three—the chair and two members—is considered most appropriate. Fewer than that does not fully reflect the importance of the award Venturing Board of Review Guide 3 milestones. The chair selects the other board members from the crew. Two adults registered with the crew, preferably members of the crew committee, must be present during the board of review in a nonvoting advisory capacity. The crew Advisor and associate Advisors are not members of the board of review, but may be present as observers, and they may serve as one or both of the registered adults present. At no time should there be more adults than Venturers present at a board of review. ... Now, I could give you my opinion on "to count or not to count?" But, that would be overstepping the authority vested in your officers under your guidance. I am not one of the two select members of your crew's D&P BoR; therefore, I am in no position to advise them. Tell your youth the book says it's on them to determine if the spirit of the requirements are met. Tell your disgruntled parent that a stranger on the internet told them to go pound sand. Edited so you could have the line I've used for times like this: "I'm not about to be bothered about the burrs up anyone's butt, including yours."

@@EmberMike, the guys who started the company posted on this forum and took some suggestions during their soft roll-out. My kids knew what they wanted by breaking in (sometimes, quite literally) my equipment. @@Stosh, I agree. The boys loved the personal touches ... be it the full roll of baler twine in my car, the SM's wife's cookies, my brother stopping by with two large pizzas, or one dad's raid of the road-side candy store at the foot of the mountain. That said, for a completely clueless family (e.g., one where the parents -- not just one family, but the entire patrol of them -- never camped), the collection shown on these boxes helps a boy gear-up in a scout-appealing way. E.g., the freeze-dried ice-cream sandwich: I tossed one in my pack during the crew's last backpacking trip, and it astounded the boys at the end of a rugged evening.

Guys, can we drop the "C" from the "SE"? There's only one CSE, and as important as this issue is, I'm pretty sure Mike would direct it to the SE of the respective council. He never struck me as the "I've done my time" sort of guy, so it's not that the task would be beneath him. But, I can't imagine him overstepping the SE's authority on this one.

@@NJCubScouter, you might be right. Because with A, there would no extra rechartering fee for a CO to add girls to any of its existing boys' program; B, there would be a new rechartering fee if every CO who wants girls in their boy scout program; C, there would be two new rechartering fees ever CO who wants girls in both their cub- and boy- scout programs; and D, the rechartering fees remain at existing levels (depending on how many CO's are content to field cub- and boy- scouts as currently constituted). My preference is obviously A, because it keeps national off of scouters' backs, allowing the boots-on-the-ground latitude in implementation, and norming to occur at round-tables and camporees. If not A, then stick with D until the nation's ready. But, what are the chances BSA is not in this for a fast buck?

@@eagle90, sounds like you have the right attitude. I think it would be helpful to go over the Outdoor Code with him. Ask him what he can do better to live up to that code at the next camp. Think of positive things. Like, identify natural fire starters or master matchless fires. Then, talk about what he can do to master points #6 and #8 of the scout law. Not merely curbing a mean spirit, but being the cheerleader of first-year scouts. Use your judgment. You are within your rights and responsibilities if you want to see him demonstrate this aspect of scout spirit on the next activity before you recommend him to his board of review. On the other hand, if you've seen him perform better since being reprimanded, you may want to positively reinforce that by confirming that his recent behavior proves to you that he's doing his best on his honor. Finally, if he doesn't have a position of responsibility already, have him consider which one he'd like to fill, but tell him to not bother asking the SPL to appoint him unless he's willing be a little more responsible than he was at camp. Every PoR requires scout-like behavior. In my book, the day the behavior goes sour, is the day the position terminates.

That all sounds fine and good, until you hear the history. Those rules were put in place after some female explorers/venturers were nominated to be tapped out, and lodge chiefs were okay with it.

True, cussing is a waste of breath. He should have taken a deep breathed, counted to three, reached around, and poked the bear in the eye.But the boy was tired, untrained, and not thinking too clearly. I'm sure he'll do better next time.

I am imagining some communication's merit badge counselor helping Johnny wrap up his partial: "No Johnny, voice impressions of the CSE does not count as describing yourself for requirement 2a, even if the White House switchboard patched you through."

Boiling frogs slowly. That's what it sounds like.

One thing, and I think it explains how much harder it gets as youth age: brotherly love. When an Eagle scout came back from Paris Island (having sent the SM occasional letters, which were read to all of us), challenged me to a wrestling match (or maybe I challenged him, needless to say I was back-to-the-lawn in zero seconds flat) ... I felt like the younger brother to a rock solid hero.

It is possible to be a good surgeon and lousy SM. Actually, with the few surgeons I know, the odds of being a good SM are stacked against them. Advancement is the least of your worries. Although I think both of your boys could request a board of review under disputed circumstances. Regardless, that's their problem to solve. You can stay out of it. The aggressive behavior of the SM, and the lack of leaders to call him on it means that the troop is not functioning as it should. The charter organization should be informed as well.

I concur. I have never heard of any Eagle who only "marked time" and earned Palms. If that was a problem in your troop, none of these changes fixes any of that. Johnny rotten earns Life at 13, racks up 31 MBs, does the SPL thing for six months, then drops of the face of the earth for 3 years. He comes around in time for some snazzy Eagle project and his SMC at age 17.99. Now you're telling me he deserves Palms? For what? Three years of parlor scouting? Or even the kid who does NYLT, NAYLE, HA quadruple crown, and a business degree at Wharton, but never darkens the door of the scout house for three years... I should proudly order his little palms because the bling he got from actually doing those other great things doesn't cut it? The kid who has a great time earning MB's and develops leadership, etc... but never hustles up to get his bird ... is a perfect scout in all things except timeliness. I should feel sorry that all he gets is a medal and a pretty sash? He got what he wanted out of the program. He read the book. He knew his procrastination wouldn't get him beau-coup palms. Maybe in his future I should be upset if he get's offered to work overtime, passes on it, and never sees a time-and-a-half paycheck. The new requirements award this slipshod behavior. I hope our boys scoff at them.

At issue @@Stosh and @@NJCubScouter, is how much access you give boys to BSA literature, and then allow them to make a decision on operations. If you leave the room and then tell them to have a slate upon your return, with no knowledge of the possibility of scheduling regular elections, that's as adult led as any more regimented troop. If, on the other hand, you have the boys read the pertinent sections of the handbook(s), ask them how they think it should apply to their troop, and give them a means to approve that mode of operation, with the scribe noting it in their minutes, and the historian filing a copy, you've allowed youth to lead and provided a decent management skill in the process. You also leave open the possibility for future youth to make a course correction.