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Everything posted by ParkMan

  1. Hi @karunamom3, Sounds to me like you've got a Scouting program at your CO on life support. Ouch! I think you've got two different choices to make: what do you do for you sons? what do you do for Scouting at your CO? You want your sons to have the absolutely best Scouting experience possible. I wouldn't let personal pressures about supporting the current Scouting program get in the way of that. If your sons get into a dull, boring program and they quit after 2 years that would only hurt them. As for your CO's program, I think that @Treflienne asks a key question.
  2. The BSA leadership really needs to separate out the LDS numbers. While it seems like Scouting is declining rapidly, I suspect much of that is around the LDS decision. Would be better to be more transparent here. Our district had steady membership the past two years.
  3. I'm all for Scoutmaster discretion on this. But, isn't the original issue here more about the Scoutmaster correctly setting expectations? It's not that the scout didn't get in. It's that the scout didn't even know he wouldn't even be on the ballot because of his age. Since the troop meets weekly there seems like lots of opportunities for a 30 second announcement that Scouts had to be at least 13 or 6th grade or whatever.
  4. I agree with your sentiment. Mkaking the outdoor program a bigger percentage would be .a good thing. I'd welcome another 200-400 outdoor outdoor oriented points. Overall in program there is 900 points now. While I get what you're saying - the BSA can distinguish itself by increasing emphasis on the outdoor program. I'd suggest that we add them and then raise the minimum needed to get Gold by most of that amount. It may be worth noting that having a budget only gets you 50 points. In the "planning and budget" category, to get more points you also have to add on: the scouts condu
  5. I stand corrected. My apologies. Didn't intend to misquote.
  6. I fully agree that boys & girls are different. I have two daughters and a son - I've seen that myself. Somehow we think that the kinds of activities we do in Scouts BSA are particularly suited to boys. I just don't see that in my experience. Take for example the eight methods - which of those do you think a girl wouldn't enjoy as much as a boy? What I would suggest is that when many of us were kids, girls were not exposed to many of those same activities. As such, by the time they hit middle school they felt uncomfortable in them and so didn't want to participate. From wha
  7. Respectfully, I think this changed with Title IX (requiring equal access to sports for both genders). My daugher and her friends are much more liekly to be outdoor oriented than girls of my generation. I tihnk a lot of that comes from the fact that for their whole lives we've been exposing girls to the same sets of activities as boys. Beyond that, the advancement system in Scouts BSA seems to be a great fit with modern girls. My high school daughter's favorite class is engineering. She gets bored that her GSUSA troop doesn't work on badges anymore.
  8. Both of my daughters are girl scouts. Their programs seem to max out around the end of elementary school. What I generally see in Girl Scouts is either: 1) a multi-level troop for all ages. 1st graders through high school. High schoolers are non-existent. 2) a single age troop where the leaders are consistent from the beginning. Some make the elementary to high school transition fine, but others seem to die off. I suspect it's because some leaders who were great in 4th grade are not great with sophmores in high school. I tihnk this is the genius of the BSA system. You hit Sc
  9. Maybe the answer is more differentiation in Webelos. Cub Scouts is Lions, Tigers, Wolves, Bears - activites as we know them now Webelos is two years - seperate from Cub Scouts - more adventure, more responsibility Scouts is the program we know today
  10. I'm not aware of the official process. I've had two cases where we dealt wiht the council staff on issues like this. In one case it was never suggested that abuse occured and the SE asked the district executive to get involved and understand the details. In that case, it resulted in the DE giving guidance to me (as Committee Chair) on how we should address the situation. In the other case the SE talked to the relevant units adults to gather information. Based on that information he consulted with national and a course of action was decided upon. I suspect that each case is hand
  11. I think what you're hitting on here is an inherent conflict in the BSA structure. 1) Units are owned and managed by the CO. The BSA simply provides the structure of the program and enters into an agreement with the CO such that they will use it along certain guidelines. 2) The BSA's own communications clearly show their intent that the programming of the BSA is as described in the DRP language. Theoretically what would happen here is that the CO would have the first say - it's their unit and program. They could preach and teach all they want. At some point, they BSA may say -
  12. There is a lot of sense to this. One of the keys to a really strong pack or troop is a really strong infrastructure supporting the program. I see this all the time. Our pack has changed scouts and leaders two or three times over the past decade. Because there is a strong organization behind them, they weather these changes just fine. Strong organizations provide the ability for Scoutmasters to focus on the scouts. I had a conversation with a Scoutmaster last week who runs a great program, but has a smaller troop because the pack at the CO is small and doesn't have many Scouts who
  13. i think you're observation would be a very common one. Again - the BSA system is pretty clear here. The Chartered Organization runs the Scout program for it's units. It's precisely why the LDS church could use the Scouting program as their youth program. If they wanted to proselytize, they could. Very few, if any, units would really try to use the Scouting program to convert kids to their faith. it would take about one meeting for word to get out and everyone who disagreed to leave. But again, technically, the unit could do that if they wanted to. I don't think using the
  14. I think we may be making different points then. When I hear subset I think of a part of or a division of the CO. When I hear subsidiary I think of a seperate organization that is controlled by the CO. I would think the topic of Scouting unit members (whether Scouts or Scouters) being considered members of the CO itself is probably a technical question more about the membership policies of the CO. If we wanted to go with a more generic definition of member "as someone who is participant in a programing of the CO" then yes, I would say that being a member of the Scouting unit ma
  15. My church has a program for the homeless - I attend a large urban church downtown in our community. To come and participate in that homeless outreach program you don't have to be a member of the church. To volunteer, you don't have to be a member of the church. You just come help. Yet, no one would suggest that this homeless outreach program isn't a part of the church's program. I think we're too hung up on the question of CO membership here. I grew up in a different faith, but my wife & I decided to celebrate religion together and so we attended the church of her faith. I parti
  16. Why can't I saw that? @David CO's point was correct. Principally the agreement between the CO & the BSA allows the CO to use the program of the BSA so that it can put on it's own Scouting program. The BSA ensures consistency of program, but the indvidual units are extensions of the CO. I read subset and I think of it to mean that the unit is a part of the CO's program and that organizationally they are both part of the same team delivering the program of the CO. Subsidiary by suggests a seperate entity that is merely controlled by the CO. While in practice that may happen, ev
  17. This is semantics - but I would submit that technically @David CO is correct. The CO pays the BSA for the right to run a BSA Scout program as part of the CO's larger offereings. So, unit is as much a part of the CO as a youth group, youth choir, or sunday school class would be. If the CO is not a church, then subsitite a similar group within that CO. The CO has the choice to closely manage the unit or to loosly manage the unit - but it's the COs choice. Further, the could require that all members of the unit are members of the CO too - but I don't think anyone does that. If I were to
  18. These things are not comparable. Now, if Bear Gryllis had killed and eaten a protected species on purpose - like going on a lion hunt - that would be different. What Bear did was similar to fishing in a national park. What these guys did was deface a rock formation that was geologically unique and the basis for the park itself.
  19. Hi @roljers, Here's the joining info from the BSA website:
  20. Couldn't he hard earned AOL or completed 5th grade before turning 10? Then, as soon as he's 10 he joins a troop. Then he's got 2 years to make Eagle. Seems highly unusual, but possible.
  21. @The Latin Scot - that's exactly my point. The guy ate a frog while filming a survival show. Yes, he did it in a national preserve - a bad choice. But, on the spectrum of offsenses the one seems pretty minor. Why does that now make him a poor roll model? I'd rather have him use it as a teachable moment. Here's an opportunity to admit his mistake and to highlight the importance of national parks and their role in protecting the environment. But instead you'd rather have him step down and no-one talk about it?
  22. I'm not going to knock the GSUSA for selling cookies or for partnerting with WB/DC. The GSUSA has a different program than the BSA and that's fine. More power to them. That's why I think this lawsuit is inherently dumb. They are two different programs with two different sets of activities. On second thought - I do knock the GSUSA for partnering with DC. If they'd had an ounce of sense they'd be partnering with Marvel - not DC.
  23. I guess my question would be: What's more important, someone who is the best example of the Scouting ideals, but is boring, so someone who can capture the imagination of youth, insprire them, but misses the mark on things like this. Sure - we'd like someone who is great at both - but those folks seem to be in short supply.
  24. Thanks for sharing the podcast @AltadenaCraig. While i fully appreciate his point - that Scouting starts with the patrol method, I've found that strongest troops I know of focus on more than just patrol method. They have a great outdoor program, they develop youth leaders, they have a strong advancement programs, they build a strong adult team to mentor the Scouts, they continue to push for continual personal growth opportunities for the scouts, etc. I'd simply suggest that it's important to focus on all eight of the methods. Don't overlook adult association because you're focuse
  25. Based on my understand - yes, the unit would be in compliance. However, I tihnk you have to look at why the BSA made this YPT rule. In essence, YPT rules exist for two main purposes 1) protect youth from situations where abuse is more likely to occur, & 2) protect adult volunteers from being in situations which are more likely to lead to accusations of abuse. I know there is a third reason - to protect the BSA in lawsuits, but for the sake of discussion, let's not focus on that at this time. I expect that the BSA leadership felt that situations with a female youth was alone with tw
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