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ParkMan

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Everything posted by ParkMan

  1. This is more in line with what I have seen too. The Scouting program is not providing the sense of adventure, challenge, and fun that it did generations ago. So, many boys are simply losing interest in it. Whether it's because we've become safer, because boys have raised their expectations, or something else - I'm not sure. It feels plausible that it's because the current crop of Scout leaders have been driven to be less adventurous and more risk adverse - but again, I don't really know.
  2. Yep - I think that's a pretty spot on analysis of the situation. Not sure that I agree that being safe is the core problem, but it's an idea and props to him for thinking up a solution.
  3. My sense is that groups like this exist to allow a faith (or really any group) to have a more co-ordinated voice on issues in Scouting that impact the faith. if you had 5,000 churches in a faith each saying their own thing, it would be hard for that faith to have much influence. So groups like this exist to provide that singular voice. I figured as it was overseen by a bishop that someone must have decided it makes sense.
  4. I'd welcome us to focus on the 95% we have in common. I think that would be wonderful.
  5. Just noting that these folks are volunteers like you or I. It's just that instead of being a unit committee member, they are on the national board.
  6. The point is that it's the Chartered Organization's choice - not the BSA's. The BSA says - religious CO, you establish your membership standards as it makes sense for your beliefs. That's up to you. No gays - that's the CO's call. No girls - that's the CO's call. The BSA isn't forcing the CO to do anything with respect to gay, transgender, or female members. The CO is free to implement the program that is consistent with it's beliefs. That passage from the Catholic church is merely confirming that. They are saying - yes, we agree that it's our choice and the BSA is leaving it up to us. If the Bishops come along and say "nope, you can't exclude gay members", that's the church's choice - not the BSA's.
  7. I'm Catholic and did a little searching for information on my church's take on this topic. I found a very illustrative statement at: http://www.nccs-bsa.org/pdf/letters/NCCS.20170208.Press.Release.pdf Here they write: The BSA has stipulated that religious partners will continue to have the right to make decisions for their units based on their religious beliefs. Scouting’s chartered organizations have the right to uphold their own moral standards within the units they charter. The teachings of the Catholic Church are upheld! Thus this change by the BSA has no impact on the operation and program delivery of scouting program in Catholic Chartered units. Further down: A Catholic parish can establish a membership guideline that follows Catholic teaching.
  8. I never said set aside your personal beliefs. What I said was should not feel slighted that the BSA has a membership policy that doesn't agree with your moral beliefs. It's not that BSA judging your beliefs. It's not the BSA telling you how to live your life or what morals you should impart to your kids. From the BSA website: We work to ensure every youth and adult member has the opportunity to join a local unit that aligns with his or her beliefs and with the experience he or she wants within the Scouting community. You seem to be pushing a narrative that because the BSA is allowing gay members that it is devaluing your beliefs and morals. I continue to find no evidence of that at all. Further, I see no evidence at all that the inclusion of gay members in the larger BSA program in any way impeeds the ability of your youth to fully follow your morals while upholding the Scout law and oath to it's fullest.
  9. Welcome @hardrockscout! I'm glad you decided to join us here.
  10. Welcome @CedarsEagle! Congrats on becoming Cubmaster too - a wonderful job in Scouting.
  11. Yeah - wouldn't be such a bad thing if we challenged scouts more today. Perhaps a day will come that we'll once again recognize the value of challenge for the Scouts.
  12. Wow - interesting history. I'm surprised a new organization became that visible so quickly.
  13. Hah - that was me. I took JLT as a 12 (11 maybe) year old. Didn't work so well.
  14. I think there are two different views of what the BSA represents. To me, the BSA provides a program that I can leverage to help my kids be better adults and have a good time along the way. Whether the specific policies of the BSA match my beliefs is less important. If you and I were in the same troop I'd tell you to not sweat this change and how it reflects on your personal beliefs. It's pretty clear from my postings that I support the inclusion of gay scouts and adults. Until a few years ago the BSA did not. I didn't feel slighted by the BSA during this time. I would encourage others to do the same.
  15. I didn't say flexible moral code. Show me thus rigid moral code you speak of.
  16. That's silly. There is a ton of things that were different in 1907 and not used in the BSA. We use them all the time now. To follow a strict interpretation of only what was done then doesn't make sense.
  17. I said it does not have a rigid moral code. It has a very good moral code based in living to your best potential. It talks about being reverant - but doesn't say you have to be an altar boy. It talks about being physicslly strong, but doesn't say you have to run 3 miles a day.
  18. Everyone's actions are influenced by the norms and culture of the day. BP is no different. What's important is to understand the aims he had and to interpret them correctly so we can implement his program correctly.
  19. The difference is in how you refer to people and the institution. You can explain in lots of ways why the BSA decision is wrong without rooting for it's demise or calling it's leaders morally corrupt.
  20. How does a unit accepting gay youth cause any scout to violate the Scout law or oath?
  21. It's not just that he insulted forum members - it's the blatant attacks on the BSA, it's leadership, and by inference those that support it. Calling the BSA and its leaders immoral and wishing it's demise is a problem. There are many more ways to make your point without having to revert to that.
  22. We're not immune, but the oath and law should guide us to handling it better.
  23. Not at all. The BSA doesn't have a rigidly defined moral code. It's about challenging yourself to be the best person you can be. A scout is: trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent. On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout law, to help other people at all times; to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight. The BSA gives scouts and families wide latitude in how to interpret this. All the BSA changed was who can try to apply these. They in no way changed the fundamentals behind it.
  24. We have a steady stream of pot shots at the BSA & it's leadership. One that is fresh in my mind was from the topic on Executive Salaries. There @David CO writes: "We get a failing organization with drastically declining membership and morally bankrupt leadership. We should pay extra for this?" In this topic, we had an example from @LegacyLost: "It is better for the BSA to collapse than to persist as a vehicle of societal corruption. Particularly due to the BSA's historically wholesome and patriotic image from its past. This image makes the BSA especially dangerous, unfortunately, due to the arsenic it now carries" There's a ton of stuff like this.
  25. I'd think it depends on the Scout. NYLT is about teaching scouts skills to be a better leader. The scout has to be at a point in his own personal growth where he could grow from the lessons. I think it's less about the program than the Scout himself.
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