Oldscout448

Sounds like the worlds oldest SPL.

Unless your goal is to prove to the PLC that their research, debating, or decisions mean a darn thing.

And mine. Although I must admit sometimes it's hard not to jump in when you can just see the train wreck coming. I think our job is to keep them safe, to remind them of the values a scout should live by, ( 10% talking-90% showing) let them learn from the lesser train wrecks, and step in only to avoid a major disaster. The question I ask myself is " Will what the scouts learn from this outweigh the harm done?"

I'm not bad maybe,but I ain't no Alvin York, those West by God Virginiains can some shoot. Just wanted to show Alex that it's not all that hard.

Todays practice-5 shots at 60 feet with a benched stock ruger 10-22 using remmington goldens and a 4x scope sighted at 50 yards

Alex you raise an interesting questuon, one scored group or five? It says you must fire five groups of five shots and all the shots must be in the 5 ring (assuming an A-36 which is the most common target). The 5 ring is 1.75 " in diameter, at 50 feet with a scoped gun on sandbags, or some other rest that should be no problem. Even with a cheap wal-Mart rifle and ammo. A good 22 can shoot 0.25 " groups at that range. A dedicated target rifle will put all five shots through one hole if the shooter does his part. But one group or five? I could argue it both ways, the wording makes it unclear .I never had a scout object to shooting four more targets. But then i was buying the ammo. At camp the scouts only had to do one, but I suspect that was due to time constraints more that anything else. Ramble alert! Back in my day ( I'm living up to my name here) you had to shoot 20 targets. Five prone with a score of 35, five sitting and kneeling scoring 30? and five standing with a score of 20. I was a pretty good shot but it still took half my day every day at summer camp. The camp had a scoutmaster shootout the winner got a watermelon to share with his Troop. My scoutmaster .Mr Tom Kavanagh went down to the range and shot a 49 out of 50 with some cheap camp guns.with iron sights yet! 45 years later I'm still trying to match that score! But the watermelon was delicious!

David , sorry if I overreacted, it was past midnight east coast time and it had been a difficult day. I just didn't see the joke. But no harm, no foul. No need to delete the post.

Ad hominem, answer the question or not as you wish, but let's stop with the cheap shots shall we?

I picked up an official BSA. sheath knife at a yard sale for 50 cents back in ' 72. i carried it on every campout and hike for the next 38 years. When my youngest son turned 18, I gave to him. I like to think it will serve him as well as it did me long after I am gone.

Damifino

I hope so. Did I mention the 5 foot 1 inch high monkey bridge? The one everyone has to cross while juggling a chainsaw, ax, and a gasoline lantern? Actually we have a whole host of safetIy precautions we go through.

Latin Scot, sounds a lot like what our chapter does for the packs in the district. Except for the dancing. sadly all our dancers turned 21 and moved on a few years back and we had no younger scouts to take their place. We do an outdoor ceremony where we also tell the tale of the young brave who saved his fellow tribesmen by shooting a flaming arrow. We actually have the smallest member of our team act out the part and shoot a burning arrow . The cubs love it!

A number of long time OA guys have reported that national has decided to end the use of native American regalia in all AoL, cub colors, callouts, or any ceremony where non OA members are present. All in the name of never offending anyone in any way at any time I guess. Not sure about the status of dance teams. Rumor has it this will be announced at NOAC this sumner.

So how about we ( the scouts formally known as the chapter ceremonies team ) offer to suit up and do AoL for the local cub packs ? We won't wear our sashes of course. I advised ceremonies with a full blood Lakota a few years ago. He was more amused than offended by our outfits. Seems they were much fancier than any thing even the chief wore back at Pine Ridge.

They changed the uniform strip to just " Scouts" back in '72. Probably what they will do again. I don't care what they change it to so long as they change it. I don't want any confusion between the organization I once proudly belonged to, and what it is morphing into in its declining years. I'm exactly one year I plan to set up my old canvas tent, light a huge bonfire, uncork a bottle of old Irish whisky, and toast my old scouting friends, some dead some living. It's called a wake

I started reading my parents scouter magazine in 1975, when I was a patrol leader looking for ways to give my scouts a more exciting program. It was full of cool ideas and advice from these who had " been there and done that" I loved it. Nowdays I give it a 15 second skim and toss it straight in the bin. The last issue led with such a blatant propaganda piece just gushing about how great the addition of girls would be, I tossed it without reading past page two. I wondered what changed so much me or the magazine? So I dug out some issues from the ' 80's and 90's. Nope, still full of good stuff about hiking, camping, etc. I'm signed up for 2018, but that will be it for me. I'm glad that I spent 30 plus of the last 50 years in BSA. Eagle,Vigil,Philmont,Eagle Dad twice. Sat around a thousand campfires with good friends. Its been a wonderful trail to hike. Not that I'm going to leave the woods, but scouting is taking a sharp left turn, and I'm going straight on ahead.

So why exactly do we need to " toe-the-line with PC" ?

Same here, except with us it's the first Monday of the month. The spl, aspl, 3 pls,QM, and scribe are expected to attend. I would say they make it 90% of the time. The two or three adults sit at another table and stay out of it. Mostly we are there to provide answers to questions like " what would the troop need to do to comply with G2SS?"

I am forced to differ with you on one point BP. Allowat names them Arrowmen in the Brotherhood ceremony. If it is good enough for the mighty chief, 'tis good enough for me.

I did ceremonies for 5 years until I turned 21. Then coached them for another 10. The problem of regalia is a minor one in my view. The bigger issue,assuming the Order starts allowing girls in, is how do we deal with the inevitable demands to rewrite the ceremonies to make them more "inclusive "? It takes a huge amount of time and effort to learn to do a ceremony well. Very few are willing to invest so much and then only when they clearly see a tangible benefit. If national hands down a new set of scripts from their ivory tower saying " here you go, toss out everything you spent countless hours studying and learning just so the girls feel more 'welcomed'" I fear the reply will be short and most impolite. The Order is by definition a brotherhood. I really don't know how many of "my" team would sadly walk away but the team dynamic would most certainly be profoundly altered.

Most of the scouts I have mentored in the last 40 years just love to learn "woodsy" stuff. Trail signs, snares, stalking, ( the old kind) fire by friction, felling trees so they fall where you want them to,building different types of fires,which plants they can eat, and the like. Its not in the books any more so I hold optional classes on camping trips for them as want to learn No patches or awards. but I rarely have less than half a dozen scouts every time. I have had a few scouters tell me that boys don't want or need such skills in 2017. So if that is true, why are the scouts so proud of their new found skills? Well I gotta go. I have a class or two to teach this afternoon. I am leaving my light weight backpacking tent and LEDs at home, and am taking my canvas tent, some deerskins,candle lanterns, and my boy scout sheath knife. Oldscout

THIS

Tom Brown's Field Guide /wilderness survival

I haven't found anything official. Sst3rd, ya might wana hold off a bit. as the Beava might say.