BadenP

sherm I am right there with you 100%. The continuing deemphasizing of outdoor skills and leadership being replaced with the modern electronic style of scouting is more than mildly disturbing. The fact is the majority of our population today, and especially the youth can't even go one hour without having their blackberry or other device at hand. States are passing laws to ban texting and cell phones while driving because we have become so addicted to these devices that they are in constant use almost 24/7. I heard one woman screaming yesterday that she had to leave work to find her blackberry because she could not do her job without it. We have indeed become a sad society of techno addicts, and scouting seems to be following the trend. I know it may seem funny now but I can see a virtual scouting program in the very near future with the way our society is moving replacing what we know as scouting today.

Very, very impressive from the way the SM chose to handle the situation and the way the SPL responded not only directly to the boys but to the entire community in his letter. Stories like this just go to reinforce how vital scouting is to our youth today in shaping them into becoming the leaders of tommorrow.

Back to the topic, since the BSA has freely admitted the exsistence of these files every attorney representing one of the victims of abuse will be requesting copies if they feel they will benefit their client in any way, even if it may cause problems to other people on the periphery in the process.

OGE He has already been judged and will be forced to live in exile for the rest of his life parading around in his robes pretending to be the pious humble cardinal. When in fact he is a modern day version of the very hypocritical and pompous priests Jesus condemned in his day. He has been charged by human law, given asylum by church law, and will receive his final judgement by the ultimate authority.

Dontcha just love the quality of these new and more expensive Chinese uniform shirts and the guy at National who wrote the uniforming rules for the patches, one hand doesn't seem to know what the other is doing once again. The UP's must be going crazy, lol. fotoscout don't sweat it, do the best you can cuz it really is not all that important to the effective running of your program.

Schiff Bernard Law fled the country and took refuge in the Vatican when he learned the Mass. State AG had filed a warrant for conspiracy charges against him in the Mass. priest abuse cases. I can hear him now screaming "Sanctuary".

It may be harder than you think to get your bugling MB, the scout shops in my area have already pulled them,the sale clerk told me "who would even want that badge anymore". The National site, as John already said, has already pulled all the information on it off its website. If you go to ebay the few bugling MB's listed are already going for over $10 a piece. As the old song goes, "oh the times they are a'changing."

short As a former DE we were told about this requirement, every council has this mandate from National and the annual council report is supposed to contain this information. Your COR should be able to inquire for you as a voting member of the executive board, however this information should be and is supposed to be available to any interested party. "There are never to be any secret funds or accounts of any kind at any council. All council financial information is to be open for public examination.", from National NEI training 1990.

Every council is required annually to issue a total accountability of what money/assets came in and where it is was spent or invested,in detail. This report is to be made available to any interested party. If your council is not doing that then they are violation of National policy. That being said there are those certain SE's who fudge the figures, or hide some salaries under things like LFL or other similiar program, or report the money in an account it never went to. Creative bookeeping is all too common in some councils. So for example if your council shows $200,000 went to improving the camps and you don't see those improvements at your camps you can demand your council explain in detail what was done with that money. You do not have to be a COR just someone who contributed to FOS. Now if you suspect financial games are being played get as many COR's as possible to go to the next meeting of the executive board and have them fight the battle for you. This happened at one council I was with and the COR's (10 of them) wrote a letter to regional concerning what they suspected, an investigation was done by regional and the SE was fired, not only from the council but from the scouting profession as well. The council president and most of the board members were also forced to resign. So you all have the power to affect real change in your council, especially if you work as a cohesive group and follow the procedures already in place. I tell you that council has never been so well organized, smooth running and as financially sound as it is today.

Look cases like this will continue to happen no matter what the reason or rule. Using one specific case as reason to discontinue a practice that has been an integral part of scouting for over 100 years is nothing short of outright stupidity on the part of National. If National is so concerned let them crack down on the adult and youth leaders in every troop to be fully trained and to Be Prepared for any instance. This is not rocket science but National doesn't have a clue as to what to do. So instead they just BAN anything and everything they think is responsible without much forethought or having a proactive instead of a reactive plan to prevent future occurances. WAKE UP NATIONAL!!!

Frank I love the way you get right to the core of the discussion. I agree with you as well. It seems people just love to bat around a non issue like this one and drive it right into the ground. I am sure most of the people complaining never bothered to read the notation on the scout stuff site and went out and bought the book. The Webelos program is not really changing at all, just a little reformatting so don't sweat it. If you bought the new book anyhow donate it to your pack library.

Eagle 92 I too have heard the same sad news about patrol outings without adults being cut. This is the kind of nonsense that Kudu has been stating for years about the direction the boy scout program was heading. What's next every boy scout must bring his mommy on all outings with him? Now Mazzuca and his cronies are cutting deep into the very foundation of what boy scouting is supposed to be about. IMHO every SM and his troop associates in the country should write a long letter to Mazzuca demanding him to reverse this action. The CSE seems to have forgotten the very principles of scouting set down by Baden Powell 100 years ago and that if National stays the present course of change we could all witness the demise of the scouting program we have known for years in our lifetime.

As a former DE I can tell you the council SE, as well as the CO, needs to be informed of these actions ASAP. Get the other DL's and write a detailed letter, have all of you sign it and hand deliver it to the SE and COR. While urinating in the woods may not in itself a YP violation in a BSA camp which is private property it IS a violation as well as being unscoutlike behavior. More importantly the other actions of this leader puts the boys in some risk, fire out of control, tieing up other scouts are all YP violations that are serious enough to get this guy blackballed out of scouting, which the SE can do even if the CO will not take any action. The main thing is file the grievance as a group as it will carry much more weight.

emb021 Yes I saw it, felt it, and put it right back down. It is made up of mostly nylon with some spandex thrown in for support, the strip and Venturing logo on the pocket looked like they were molded on definitely not sewn, similiar to the BS shirt. No flag or crest. The pockets on the ones I saw had velcro like closures. The shirt feels like you are wearing your kids nylon school pack. IMHO these new shirts will not hold up well in an active crew and at $40 a pop they are a total waste of money. Your crew is much better off designing their own uniform made with quality material and workmanship, and with this new shirt maybe that is what National wants crews to do.

Kahuna Our council's National store is already closing out the Venturing traditional shirts they have left in inventory. I bought some today for our crew going to jambo and to have in inventory. The new shirts feel flimsy, look poorly made, compared alongside the former one, and they really are ugly, I will never buy one. Maybe I will stop by the council tommorrow and pick up a couple of the older shirts for myself, they are going fast.

jeffrey The correct term is a Venturer not a Venturing scout, and the Venturing uniform is an official BSA standard, including the uniform that the crew has chosen for their own. There is no need or reason for the candidate to call anyone as either or none is acceptable for an EBOR. If your EBOR members don't get that then they need to be retrained or replaced it is as simple as that. Too many scouters do not keep up with the latest information on an EBOR or even bother to learn it in the first place, that is the responsibility of the DAC to make sure these errors do not occur in the first place.

It may be in the rulebook but parents attending the ordeal or the ordeal ceremony really takes away from the special significance of what is happening no matter how you slice it. The next valid argument mentioned here is what if a parent has some sort of hissy fit about what is happening and totally disrupts the spirit of the experience and ruins it for all the other boys? The boy of that parent would be so embarrassed he would probably leave scouting never to return. IMHO National has continued to "wussify" the OA experience, along with the boy scout program, to the point where instead of turning these boys into men and leaders we are creating a culture of mommas boys. No wonder so many teenage boys today view scouting as a bunch of geeks and nerds and have no interest in joining. Look if parents want to come to an OA weekend have a special reception after the vigil and ceremony are over and they can congratulate them there.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

The council I am in currently will not release copies of their records training or any other type to a volunteer for any reason as they consider them to be council property. So our district asks volunteers to bring their training records to roundtable and the district training chair keeps a training record book of all district volunteers. It seems to work well for us and sometimes the training chair helps council correct their files which always seems incomplete.

I agree with you qwazse, all of us and the old timers need to follow the official EBOR guidelines not their own personal vision, and if they are unable then they should not be allowed to sit on a EBOR. Especially now with that new $40 hideous looking venturing nylon and spandex ss shirt, replacing the former shirt, yes it is official, I expect to see even more crews move away from the "official" venturing uniform and into more original and individualized uniforms suitable to the main activities of that crew.

Hmmm an activity shirt costing more than a uniform shirt, I think they fed you a line of bull and did not know what they were talking about. In any case this is just another example why there should be NO official Venturing uniform, it is not part of the program,and our crew members should not be allowed to be duped by this obvious marketing ploy. Crews should create their own uniforms and that is that, including wearing them at jamborees and all official events.

Neal Any country where there are sweatshops exploiting their workers seems to be the National Supply Divisions intent. I think though you will find most are still being made in China the leader in sweatshops and exploited labor.

The problem is F Scouter that I know several crews where they invite a consultant to give a 30min talk and then think they are ready to go rapelling or caving or whitewatering without any further instruction. If you have a consultant on these trips that is one thing, but any leader adult or youth who think after one short class they are ready to take on one of these trips without a trained consultant along is sadly mistaken and a danger to themselves and the crew.

You guys are all right five dollars more for a poorly designed Chinese crap shirt that is just plain ugly. I am glad I have all the Venturing shirts I will ever need. And what is with that tiny logo on the bottom corner of the left pocket? No doubt yet another disasterous attempt by National to make the BSA uniforms the ugliest in the World Scout movement and to charge you more for the privilege. Thank you to Mazzuca and his cronies in yet again proving National has no sense of style or quality whatsoever.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

Eagle High Adventure skills are NOT basic skills. These are events where there is some inherent risk involved, and the reason why untrained or inadequately trained leaders should NOT attempt these type of events. Too many scouts, venturers have been seriously injured and killed because their ill trained leaders thought it was no big deal to go river rafting, mountain climbing, or caving without proper training or adequate equipment. Any basic outdoor skills course needs to make sure the trainees understand exactly what type of trips they can and can NOT do with their scouts.

RK BALOO and OLS are very different than high adventure training and there really is not a cohesive way to combine them. Powderhorn is just an introduction to HA and it is much more rigorous than either BALOO and OLS, as it should be. One size fits all does not work in this case. Powderhorn, if it is done right, has some application with older boy scouts but has no relevance to the outdoor activities of cub scouts. I seriously doubt there is going to be just one outdoor activity training for all as the three programs are so different in nature.