MattR

Why not just extend scouts to 21? A really good 20 year old scout would essentially be an ASM so what's different. They still can't drive scouts around. Scouts would more likely stick around if they're having fun and that could be a welcome change from all us old farts. They'd leave when they're ready. It would reduce the artificial pressure you mention. And there would still be a time limit. I'm not sure this really helps the original topic because the BSA would never go for it. But it's nice thinking about. Anyway, your tired old soap box is better than some of the others.

That's wonderful that you want to help out. Thanks for sharing. I know nothing about the Camp Fire program. Could you describe how it's different from Boy Scouts?

You do bring up a good point. The BOR is there to ensure the SM did his job. On the other hand, delaying bad news is always frowned upon. You can't wait until the Star BOR to tell a scout he was a lousy PL. So why should the Eagle BOR be different? I guess it's because the district is interested in setting the standard but why do they wait until the BOR to get involved? This is just proof to me that the new eagle project process has some problems. It doesn't help this scout but I'm glad we tell the scouts that they need to prove they are prepared before we let them start the project.

I reread this thread and I have a slightly different view on this than before. The adults dropped the ball but I'm not sure the adults could ever get this right given the process. As Back Pack said, the process isn't very good. Tell me if this right: The district can be given a vague plan and they have to decide whether it's a valid project. After that the unit leader and the beneficiary are the only ones that can say whether a project showed leadership. However, the beneficiary likely has no idea what a valid project is and signing off might be the path of least resistance. That leaves th

This is rough situation. Nobody wins. And you get to be the bad guy. To be honest, I'd look at the rest of his scouting. If the reason he did such a lousy job was because he is just lazy and everyone cut him slack, then I wouldn't feel bad about rejecting it. If he's a good scout and the adults dropped the ball, then I'd just hold my nose and sign it. And then I'd get the adults together and figure out how to prevent this in the future. If you decide to reject it then don't feel bad. If he appeals and gets eagle then good for him (or more likely his parents) at least your name isn't on

That's great that you nearly tripled the size of your troop in one day. That's going to make for some changes but it's a high class problem you have. As others have said, SPL and ASPL is overkill for 11 scouts, you probably don't need either. You haven't really described the existing patrol. One scout is about to get Eagle and leave. How old is he? Two are young and likely not much different from the 7 that joined. That leaves 2 other scouts? What ages and abilities are they? Patrols form based on personalities. You might not end up with 2 regular patrols. You might end up with 9 newis

I think what he means by "stay away air mats" is stay away from cheap, uninsulated air mattresses. A cheap air mattress, with no insulation in it, will let the heat from your body escape out the sides via convection and it will be no warmer than sleeping on the ground. What is needed is something that will keep the air from moving within the pad. Closed cell foam or an air mattress with insulation. I've had plenty of experience with sleeping on bad pads. For scouts, at the temps they're talking about, a fairly inexpensive closed cell foam pad will work fine.

Staying dry is very important. So put on dry clothes before you go to bed. Bring lots of extra clothes, hats, socks, shoes. Once they get wet they won't dry. The places you lose heat the fastest are the head, neck, hands, and feet. So make sure everyone has a hat, some gloves, and boots. Tennis shoes would be bad all day in rain. I'm not sure what your daytime temps are but 50 degrees all day in a wet climate will start sapping energy from cubs. Bring extra stuff that others can borrow. Consider having a gear check. A positive mental attitude can be encouraged with fun things to do. Have a

This was posted on our council website a few days ago: The Boy Scouts of America has notified all councils that, effective April 1, 2017, filing the BSA Tour and Activity Plan for review by council offices will no longer be required. The purpose of this letter is to inform you of that change to the process for Scouting units planning activities and outings away from their scheduled meeting places, as well as how that affects the chartered organization. A cross-functional team has completed an evaluation of the BSA’s Tour and Activity Plan, resulting in a recommendation to terminate the

I'm reading a book on Jewish philosophy and the subject of obedience just came up. Such timing. In a nutshell, this thread is old. Very old. There are a lot of stories in the Bible that talk about just this. Obedience is important, as long as the one being obeyed is also obedient to a higher ideal. This is different from many Greek philosophers that said obedience to the state was a given, no matter what the state did. Both sides say obedience is important to develop society. The problem with simple obedience is when society goes off on an unhealthy tangent, such as equal but separate, or toss

So is character, but that's what we're about.

Why not just one scouting program from 11-21 and let the CO have some flexibility to create what they want? Do you want to limit the age above 14 or below 18? Boys only? Girls only? Coed? LDS only? Eagle has to be completed by 18 but if you want to stop at First Class, go for it. All of this micro managing of the program does not help. Train them, trust them, let them be may just as well apply to the units as it does to scouts. A troop with 11 - 21 year olds is an intriguing idea. There would have to be adventure. There would have to be strong patrols that do their own thing. Eagle wou

Ah, but Col Flagg, the neanderthals are using more patrol teamwork and leadership skills than the nerds. Let's face it, troopmaster's a tool. Tools can be abused. Tools can also be useful. We find it very useful for syncing with the council advancement records and making lists of awards to buy. We used to just have scouts denied ranks because something got lost in the human process. It also feeds our website with roster and email info. Maybe that could be replaced but someone would still need to enter that info somewhere. I agree that replacing the scouts handbooks is a bad idea.

Alex, long time no see. Welcome back.

Well, then let's keep pushing the boundaries. The cones are for people in vehicles that can't easily look up. The cone is likely by the wing tip, not the engine. Please continue with bombing girls scouts, or whatever it was you were talking about before.

Yeah, I remember the popular kids from high school. Half of them are in 12 step recovery programs now. Most of the rest are in marketing. I'm not making this up. I went to my 40th year reunion and I was the only one that had a technical degree. It was a ton of fun though. There certainly are scouts that are socially awkward. And a lot of them have been asked to lead projects in their school because, as many have told me, they just know how to get things done. Popularity and leadership have a small overlap. Popularity is often about being selfish and confident. Leadership is often about

You guys are sort of wandering off in the weeds. Maybe David's point was that 12 words alone can't teach a scout, or anyone else for that matter, how to be good. Of course, neither can 10, 13, or 613 commandments. If that were the case then the Bible would be a lot shorter. So, to answer the original topic, I don't have a problem with obedient and it ain't broke. I'd leave it as is.

Wait a minute. I left a week ago after Fred said there was no worry about this scout passing his EBOR. Or did I just say eagle project? Hmmm. Fred, aren't you the one always saying we shouldn't add requirements and such? Isn't that what this is? At least no surprises after the fact, during the SMC? But this is worse. One thing that should be noted is that the SM can be at the EBOR. He can't say anything unless someone asks him some questions. This is the opportunity to bring up other leadership the scout has done. I'd say talk to the people on the EBOR with the concerns before the fact, ma

DO NOT supply login info to the virteq popup. I am running firefox, cleared my cache, and still get this. I tried it on chrome and there are no issues. I poked around. Something was hacked. It's not this forum but this forum uses default themes and one of those has been hacked. Try going to the bottom of the page (this forum) and hit the Change Theme button. You'll get some choices. Pick something else. I tried haze. The display will be strange but then try another page. it all gets back to normal and the silly pop up goes away. At least it did in the other window. update: the

Yes, they are idiots. The reason being that if they want to make a political statement it would be much much louder if they went ahead with the trip and a girl scout got stopped at the border. Just imagine the publicity. Girl scouts as terrorists? What a photo op. "We just wanted to trade unicorn patches with our sister troop in Duluth and this big man with a gun said we couldn't come in and now we have to go home."

Just a hunch but are you worried this scout might not pass his BOR? I've seen very different views on what an EBOR should be on this forum. In our council, if the district Eagle person is okay with the project then it's good enough. End of story and nobody at a BOR will challenge it. If that is the case here then, as others have said, the first project makes a good story to tell at the BOR. If the BOR might fail him over this, then there's a mess.

blw2, this is not classic vs current scouts, it's adults not respecting the scouts. Nothing needs to be changed with the program to support that. The adults just need a better understanding of how it all fits together. Maybe just a classic attitude is needed. I swear people just didn't worry so much about advancement when I was a scout. I don't remember doing advancement at summer camp. Eagle was nice but just not a big deal. Another classic idea is that it just takes time to be a kid. Scouts was fun and it was not a rush. It was also not a constant Harrison Ford adventure either. We had o

What I said was let councils experiment and find out what really works. I did not say any council can make up any rules they want. If you think you have a good reason for bartending MB then make a proposal to national. Let me know how it turns out. Or, everyone can keep arguing. That certainly changes a lot of people's minds, at least on this forum. I'll leave it up to you to decide what is and is not sarcasm.

As long as we're making proposals... Let's not have a top down, troop method decision. How about let councils that feel strongly about something make a proposal, get approval, and try things out for 10 years to see what happens. Do you want to simplify merit badges and reduce class time? Great, make a proposal, figure out a way to gauge the results, and report back in a few years. Do you want coed? Fine, let us know how it works. Do you want to ditch FCFY? Increase service hours? Reduce or change the Eagle required MBs? Revamp adult training? Add a theology MB? Require that a scout take hi

@@RememberSchiff, your graphic is perfect. Succinct. If there was a green LMAO button I would hit it for you. Anyway, that is why my scouts could care less about MBs. We're classic in some of these things. We give out ranks at COHs, but do a big shout out after a BOR. We require scouts to pass a skills test, but if they don't know all the skills that's when they get to relearn it. My scouts like it because it's better to be embarrassed by an adult than a younger scout. I do like the Eagle project. The issue seems to be that the process is being sped up. The mentality is replace a l