MattR

On 11/18/2021 at 7:39 AM, Eagledad said:

InquisitiveScouter just showed a picture of my back yard. We very much enjoy watching the families of Cardinals and Woodpeckers repeatedly swarm our feeders each morning as we eat breakfast. However, we haven't seen as many of these families this year, as well as the songs from the Mockingbirds. Rumor is the lack of these birds in our area is the result of the hard freeze that dominated the US last February. Mother nature is usually pretty good at bringing balance. I have high hopes the families will overwhelm our feeders again soon.

Barry

For us it wasn't the freeze, it was the hawk. There's also an owl.

Nice pictures, @InquisitiveScouter , did you take those? I'm thinking that was a long lens.

I have a fish pond in my yard i keep open with an air stone. It keeps the fish alive and the birds happy. Which in turn keeps me happy.

Building on @qwazseand @Eagledad 's comments, what if, rather than bringing in an oracle scout, consider taking the new troop - which is likely the size of a patrol - and putting it in the troop where the split would have come from for a year? Then split off a new troop with that one patrol. The new parents would also have someone to learn from as well.

The comment from @T2Eagle is also good. How many units start off bad because they forget about fun? Rather than make a big plan for advancement I'd much rather ask the scouts what they want to learn. If the answer is how to make great pancakes (because they just torched the last ones) then there's a plan the scouts will get behind.

@Armymutt , this is a hypothetical district. It has very few volunteers, no OA, and the DE is busy doing something else. Maybe the OA, as originally intended to bring ideas back to units, is an idea worth pursuing. I don't think districts currently help improve units as much as they think. The people best able to do that seem to be the ones in the thick of it. So I'd rather see units helping each other be the focus. To be honest, a troop needs 7 years of great ideas and then it can start recycling them. I'd think sharing ideas would really help units come up with more enjoyable calendars but every time I saw a roundtable ask units to share it's rather superficial.  If you saw the SNL skit called Man Park last week, that's what roundtables remind me of other than announcements. And the announcements don't really help either.

43 minutes ago, Eagle1970 said:

All I asked was what the news might be.  Is that somehow offensive?

Not at all. If there actually is some news tomorrow then that's great. Right now the only news is the mediator left, and nobody knows anything beyond that.

I just removed some posts referencing kosnoff's tweets. As they just seem to be more anger than information, I see no point.

Maybe I was misunderstood. The idea is to start with a group of scouts and adults with very little experience and show them how to have fun while learning the skills they need to be great volunteers to take over. So, smart with simple stuff and stay focused on fun to encourage everyone to come back for more. I think a pancake cooking competition would be worth a lot more than an hour of training - which nobody is around to do anyway.

I want to talk about how to set up a bunch of scout units for success. But everything you used to use to solve this problem can't be used because, well, it's gone. Call it a thought experiment or call it reality, but here are the ground rules. Membership is down, all of your volunteers are new to scouting and don't have a lot of outdoor experience. You've got to get a small district up and running but there is no DE. You can have some media with information in it that would be useful to the new volunteers and scouts - sections of the handbook, field book, whatever you'd like. There can be one person with experience to help guide them, but they can only help a few hours a week. You can count on some camps that you can use and any money you need will have to be raised by the scouts, i.e., no more donations. If you're lucky you can find a list of old codgers that can help teach some skills now and then but they aren't going to do any heavy lifting, or camping in cold weather. You can't count on finding volunteers from local businesses or any other experts that will volunteer lots of time. The only volunteers you're going to get are parents of kids that want to be scouts. There will be no training, no camporees, no organized summer camp (but there will be some camps)

Now, there is one premise you can build on. Scouts and adults can put up with a lot of bad news as long as they are having fun and moving forward (improving, growing, reaching their goals). If you get them started and going they will become self motivated and within a couple of years will be the volunteers that can come back and teach some skills.

Your goal, should you decide to accept it, is to write a manual to be given to unit leaders on how to grow scouting. It has to be simple enough to get them started, have fun and make progress. It should have a way for units to help other units when they get stuck (because you can't help them).

What would you do?

I ask this because I think that's not too far off from where the BSA will be next year. The BSA will not provide help and councils won't do much either. Districts are also hurting.

10 hours ago, fred8033 said:

Interesting ...  Your comment made me search and read.  The $5 sounds right for the search of the national sex offender database.  Probably does not include identity verification, county(plural??) criminal checks, state criminal checks, national criminal checks, etc.  

Our school district charges volunteers $11 approx for their background checks.  Add cost on top of that to maintain the background check system, paperwork, making sure you have signatures with permission to do the background check, etc.  

I'd imagine BSA can't administer the background check system for less than $20 per person per year.  ... I'm just guessing.  I'm just saying that there is real cost.  Interesting topic.

 

 

 

Do you remember the early days of credit cards when a transaction consisted of putting the card and carbon paper into the slide gizmo that would imprint the card information onto the paper and then the clerk would write the totals in and you'd sign it? The cost of that was probably a few dollars per transaction. Now I tap my card against the reader.

Rather than forms and signatures how about a driver's license and a phone app? Drive the price down so every school and church wants to use it as well. As people have said, CSA is likely widespread. So why not work on a global solution?

I know, the BSA can't solve technical problems. But maybe if they tried they'd describe the problem they and all youth activities have to some companies that do these searches and just one of them would see an opportunity.

This issue of background checks is not a fundamental problem. It's just a technical one. A bigger issue is changing adult perceptions consistently across the organization. Most scouters understand CSA but I've seen too many that think they know better about everything. That's okay when it comes to rank advancement but when they screw up and suddenly my troop no longer has a camp to use, it's a problem for all of us.

I googled costs to do a search on known sex offenders and it's anywhere from free to $5. Assuming that's close to correct, and just maybe the BSA could get a group discount or unlimited access for a reasonable price, I don't see the problem. At what price per adult per year for a tailored background check does the background issue go away?

Sounds like great fun. Well done.

And your own meeting place where you can camp! Nice combination. My first troop had their own land with a cabin. I never thought much of it as a scout but now that sounds wonderful.

Sounds like there's a reason you're growing. Thanks for the good news.

4 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

The difference is passwords in the clear could lead to stolen ballots.   Custom phone app ballots that do not register no votes are clearly wrong.   If these items are true, they are not just part of the game.  

Sure, if suspected then it's a problem that should be brought to the attention of the court, where the truth can be found and a solution dispensed. However, that doesn't appear to be happening. Until we know for a fact that any of these things have happened they are nothing but rumors being used in the court of public opinion to sway votes. 

Honestly, if these rumors are not pursued in court then what else are they?

2 hours ago, johnsch322 said:

Swaying the vote is what all lawyers do. Otherwise we would just have the packet without letters and no communication with lawyers. 

Therefore, nobody should whine about what Ken is doing, it's just part of the game.

I think it's time for this thread to get back to what's happening in the court.

1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

I also agree, if some of Kosnoff's tweets are accurate (passwords in the clear, questionable eBallots, etc.) those should be raised to the court as well.

So, kossnoff has tweeted about passwords in the clear, lawyers might have quit the coalition, and things the coalition said might be illegal. And none of this has been raised with the court. Who's trying to sway the vote? 

Welcome to the forum, @HtownScouter

12 hours ago, fred8033 said:

If the program ever stabalizes (law suits, finances, membership, woke, etc) ... the MB program will need to be re-organized. 

Here's my ABSOLUTELY FREE,  Brilliant idea of the day. 

For each MB write a companion pamphlet that a patrol can use to have fun/challenge/interest/service doing the subject of the MB. It would be similar to program features but would include requirements that would lead to a patch or ribbon for a patrol flag. Also, there would be no talking requirements, just doing as a patrol. Also,  completing such a patrol badge would not imply anything about the associated MB.

A lot of fun could go into making patrol badges. So, for art MB as an example, a service project could be for a patrol to paint a mural on a wall. For welding, a patrol could weld a frame for a soap box car.

All the normally fun MBs would be easy to turn into a patrol badge. If nobody can think of how to make a patrol-MB for a normal MB, then maybe that MB needs reconsideration.

That's the end of my brilliant idea. Do not use within 30 minutes of swimming. Do not take with grapefruit, grapefruit juice, or lima beans. Do not take while operating heavy machinery or while trying to cancel your cable subscription. Call a doctor immediately if, while using this idea, you start having hives, hot flashes or a desire to sing repeat after me songs.

Not sure if this means anything but our CO was hesitant from the start some 15-20 years ago about liability. Consequently, our COR has always been both an active parent in the troop as well as active in the church as well. They have taken the position seriously. 

4 hours ago, acema606 said:

I got an email from National today.  Just an FYI I am not a victim.  Goes to the following link to BSA restructuring page, containing what I’m assuming is updated info.  https://www.bsarestructuring.org/survivors/
 

I read that page. It contains a lot of creative logic. Yes, the bsa is funding the largest sex abuse settlement, but there is a much larger group of claimants. So, yes, it is low.

Either way, an interesting number that was on the posted dashboards is cost to run the council per youth served. One was around $300/yr/scout and the other was about $1000/yr/scout. Those are amazingly high numbers. For that much money I would expect membership to go up.

Anyway, this seems to be where the rub is. I suspect the BSA says it requires so much money at the council level because of the high cost per scout and the TCC says it shouldn't cost that much. And yet neither side wants to defend their view. Anybody know why?

My kids used to play at the Leslie Groves park in Richland WA, the other plutonium manufacturing site. Fascinating history and still not cleaned up.

8 minutes ago, skeptic said:

The good thing is that the districts are doing more and even drawing in a new type of volunteer, so to speak. 

Is this comment worthy of a new thread?

1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

Help from you Scouter guys in the know? Looking to understand the history and context of these WGs and ACs, as well as how many and varied they are. Many thanks.

I've always ignored them. Let's put it this way, if a problem really needs solving then the organization would turn its focus towards it. It would not need a new committee or group. The organization would be the committee. For example, any company that has a "quality committee" is not nearly as interested in quality as an organization that makes quality a day to day subject that everyone is involved in.

It's not clear to me what the BSA's core product is. I'm not saying it has no focus, only that I don't know what it is.

On 10/25/2021 at 8:19 AM, SSScout said:

Campfire safety being of utmost importance (I hope and pray you never find yourself saying, "I thought I put it out"),

As long as we're admitting fallibility: We thought we put it out. Then we put the garbage bag full of ashes in the back of the truck. Then we fanned it at 60 mph. Then we pulled over and took it out of the back of the truck as quickly as we could.

But our lesson really was FREE! (No damage other than slight melting of truck bed liner)

Humility is a hard skill to learn.

1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

Three things: 

1) They specifically said the goal was to amass as many clients as they could through the ad and aggregation campaigns so the court (and other MPs) had no choice but to deal with them. To paraphrase, “We can then sit down in the road and obstruct any progress until we get what we want.” That is in no way an exaggeration or extrapolation of their internal communications; 

2) If they are acting in the best interest of survivors, why are they so desperately disparaging the TCC, literally lying about what they have done and the TCC not, and now creating entities that are not initiated in corporation with the TCC and, apparently so far, without the participation of the TCC; and

3) They engaged an attorney to publicly articulate a rebuttal of the TCC’s position and recommendation who actively lobbied for his own engagement by the TCC by the following means: running down Jim Stang and his firm, not revealing his CV and having others, who happen to be among the top three law firm members of the Coalition, to do the same. Oh. During the interview for the job, he also asked for a $10M retainer. The Stang’s firm? They committed 10% of their fee to BSA abuse survivors AFTER they were hired. After. After. After. Did I say AFTER?

Again, I see no clean hands or a clean heart here. The evidence screams “Houston, we have a problem...”

This wasn't brought up before very well. Thanks for that.

Lawyers that don't represent their clients very well is wrong, but is it legally wrong? And if so, what are the consequences? Can it be proven and can the judge remove them from the table?

2 hours ago, elitts said:

Why disappointed? 

You're right, we still don't know the details. And as is typical, I don't think the BSA knows them either. It could be nefarious or it could be the usual, not very well thought out idea.

It would have a lot more appeal if they had used the TCC's version. Instead, it's very coalition centric. Given how the voting is going, the optics are certainly not good.

3 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

Is John and Roger any relation?

I found pictures of them and they don't look related.

Is it just me or did anyone else get the vibe that this is advertising for the plan?

TCC not at all part of this. Duration ends after voting is over. Regular meetings and probably regular reports. It will turn into the organization that the bsa and coalition agreed upon. Again, no TCC. No information about voting. While there is a fixed number of survivors on this board the bsa side has "at least 6".

Disappointed again but still not surprised.