LauraT7

we use two man tents. that helps alot. it REALLY does. With the younger boys, who tend to leave stuff out all over - we do a walk-thru the campsite and have them put stuff away at about 10 pm - often they dissapear into their tents, putting stuff away and are too tired to come back! (or they don't come back fearing other 'job' assignments -LOL!) Most of our boys get up at an unGodly early hour - 6am or even earlier! they get the message early on that it doesn't pay to stay up - crabbiness is not allowed, either! our boys ARE allowed to stay up as long as they wish - if there are things they miss out on in the morning, like breakfast - too bad. it seldom happens. if the troop is leaving for an activity - say a bike ride or wall climbing - the other boys literally pull him out of the tent if we can't just 'leave' him. We've only had one boy who persisted in his late-nite late-morning habits - and he has since gone to another troop. I am a night owl - and NOT a morning person. On our last campout I stayed up til 1:30 AM, visiting with the boys - especially as we lost one of our adult leaders to cancer last week. We were having a great time sharing stories about him, laughter, and a few tears. It was a priceless time I would not have traded for anything - and the best "memorial" Scot could have ever wanted. sometime we have to remind the boys - especially those whose voices are changing - that their voices carry and especially at the campsite we were at last weekend - there were alot of families around us with young children. but the SPL and older boys do a good job of monitoring the younger ones. the boys STILL got up at around 5:30. - not my problem as the adults do their own cooking - we got up and around about 6:30. the troop had an appointment to do some wall climbing at 9 AM. the hot afternoon found me napping in my hammock from a nearby tree - making up for lost hours the night before. this BOY lead stuff is GREAT!

We have also started encouraging the boys to try new things - one of the ways we do that is have great meals in the adult patrol - and let the boys have the leftovers. this does two things - 1 - it gets them to try new things 2 - somebody always either doesn't like what's being cooked or doesn't get enough - it uses up our leftovers sometimes the boys 'forget' a major ingredient (hey, they're learning!) and their meal turns out bad - this gives them an example to reach for and something to eat if its really a disaster. Our last campout was kind of cute - Sat dinner they planned was Tacos - simple, right? The PL decided to save on ice and keep things cold by freezing EVERYTHING. including the tomatoes, onion and lettuce. LOL! they had a huge 'brick' of hamburger they had to chip apart in chunks. He 'forgot' to pick up a taco spice packet - they were kind of bland. coincidentally, the adults had planned tacos for lunch that day - Since there were only three of us - we had leftover meat - which we had re-sealed and saved - they dumped ours in theirs and got some 'spice' that way. the adults had also planned meals that used similar ingredients in multilple meals - Omlets, tacos, beef stew, to 'use up' fresh ingredients and not have so many leftovers. But after making our dinner salads, we still had a tomato, some lettuce and onion and pepper we could give to the boys for their tacos. On another funny note - we had ONE boy with us, who needed cooking experience. though he has been with the troop 2 yrs, he has severe asthma/health problems and seldom camps. (mom wants to keep him in a bubble, Dad wants him to camp) He kept wandering off when he was supposed to be cooking for his patrol at breakfast - so naturally - the hungry boys took over and finished - they wanted to EAT! so this boy's Dad was with us, brought him over and had the boy light our stove, make Dad's omlet, etc. (Dad explained that he would NOT get credit for the meal for advancement as he walked off his duty - but that he needed to learn - good for Dad!) so the boy mixed up dad's omlet per dad's directions and Dad told him "When you're done, put the egg mixture in the bowl into the frying pan and let it sit until the edges start to cook." so what did the boy do? He put the whole bowl in the hot frying pan! LOL! you should have seen his dad's face! oh well - experience is always the best teacher! ______________________ I have been experiemnting with new foods by finding recipies ont he 'net. there are LOADS of resources - i like the Scouter ones - as they have already been tested and tried by scouts and you KNOW they will like them. 3 recent hits were the crepes and strawberries someone mentioned - nice thing about these, to - is that you can roll them up and eat them right out of the pan - no dishes! Beef stew and biscuits - marinate beef chunks in a ziplock with zesty italian dressing and Worchestershire sauce (prepare before you leave) At camp in a foil-lined DO - fry up some onion and peppers in a little butter - take meat out of baggie and brown. (leave most of marinade in bag) Add one or two bags of frozen mixed vegies of your choice (good to use up leftovers) the recipie calls for gravy mix - but i just added a little water and set it in the coals to cook - and then put some bisquick mix into the baggie with the leftover marinade and mushed to mix - made a roux to add to the now bubbling stew to thicken. Spice to flavor - a litle garlic, or allspice, salt, pepper? cook for about 30 min. stir occasionally. take 1 can jumbo biscuits, and lay biscuits on top of stew, leaving spaces in between. put lid back on and a few coals on top - when biscuits are golden brown dig in. won't last long! Another dinner Baked Chicken and cheese - chicken breasts or strips - in foil packs, spoon over them a mixture of olive oil (6 tbs), lemon juice (2 tbs) and tyme (2tbs), salt and pepper and cook on grill or in DO till chicken done (350 for 30 min). open foil packs and place on top of chicken, 1 slice boiled ham, 1 slice swiss cheese, 1 slice tomato - bake open in DO for about 5 min (melt cheese) ___________ on a side note - we have noticed that we often have leftover supplies - cooking in patrols; packages too big, etc. and that boys are ALWAYS hungry and often do not plan desserts or snacks. We have started taking an extra cooler - with some raw veggies, s'mores ingredients, maybe some fruit, PB&J and all "leftovers" go in there - boys are welcome to 'raid the cooler' at will - and we end up with some interesting snacks, and less wasted or given away food at the end of a campout.

Why would you want your son to go to camp with this troop? Despite his having (some) friends in this troop -knowing kids, the attitude the leadership has towards him will filter down to the kids. the kids will treat him as the group scapegoat and your son will be miserable. Why would you want to set him up for such treatment? this is the time when it is the parent's obligation to exert their parental perogative in protecting their child and take him OUT of this troop. don't ask him - tell him. Give him a choice of other troops, or make him a Scout in an individual program (can't remember the name for it right now. By letting this go for so long and allowing your son to endure the situation for two years, you are letting him down and setting him up for failure and self-esteem problems. (I'm sorry if that sounds harsh - but for me - the BOY ALWAYS COMES FIRST) As independant as we want our boys to be - sometimes as parents we must step in and take the decisions away from them. this is one of those times. there is no way you are going to "win" this situation. even if you get the SM expelled, as he rightfully deserves, this has gone on too long and will leave a bad taste in everyones mouth. Even if you 'win' your case, you son has already 'lost' in poor treatment, hurt feelings and lost scouting opportunities. I would get him in another troop, be honest about your son's own difficulties and problems to avoid any future problems, and work with the troop in making the boy comfortable and giving the leadership the information they need to deal with him. Reading between the lines of your posts - I suspect that your son either has some kind of behavior or learning disability that makes him not fit the "norm" and that this leader and other leaders may have a problem dealing with him. IN NO WAY do i condone the treatment of this boy by the leader in question or his troop as a whole - but if the boy HAS a difficulty, the parents need to be involved to help and educate the leadership to deal with his needs. I am a parent of an ADHD/ gifted scout myself. we have quite a few in our troop who are ADHD, ODD, autistic ,depression, learning disabilities, health problems and simple teenage obstinance. I have become an advocate for these boys - trying to bridge the gap between them and their families, and the leadership that has 'ordinary' kids without problems who often think "all that kid needs is discipline, consequences and a smack on the behind". some of these leaders will never be convinced that these boys TRULY have a problem or disability. but you can control the adults behavior and treatment of the boys by KNOWING the program and its youth protection rules, insisting on training and adherance to the rules. BSA understands the problems these boys are facing, even if individual leaders don't "buy" into believing in behavioral problems. Protect your son, get him out of the troop. Protect your son by 'setting him up to succeed' - working WITH his new troop leadership to avoid potential pitfalls. Protect the other boys by pursuing appropriate discipline for this leader to the fullest extent.

CONS: - I have never been an adult leader of a crew, troop, pack. So? you also don't have any pre-conceived ideas to re-train. Inexperience is not a problem - keeping and open mind is more important. learn & work the program - and let the kids do as much as they want to take on. Guide, don't "lead" - I am just now getting back into scouting after an absence during my youth. I left scouts at 15 and am returning now that I am 26. related to above - take the good and useful stuff you remember, learn the new program, and your young age will probably benefit this Crew! - I am currently a new Unit Commissioner, though not in the same district as this crew. Actually - in my opinion, this is a "pro" point. doesn't muddy the waters of creating a conflict of interest by holding two posts in the same area. Being a crew leader and UC will give you a common bond with the unit leaders in your district - making you more appproachable to them and more understanding of their positions and problems - you can learn from them. Being a UC in another district means you know what a uc can do to help you make your unit succeed. I cannot tell whether you are male or female. as a venture crew you might find you retain and recruit more if you even out the ratios of male to female in the crew membership, and you then need both male and female adult advisors. perhaps this other leader would be willing to stay on as an advisor?

Thanks, everyone - I thought it was right to wear the uniform sash to such an event - I'm going to talk to our SPL and our SM and see if we can get them back on board - I've noticed ALOT of sloppy habits cropping up - especially in pants and shirts that look like they just came out of the laundry basket, patches half torn off - etc.

y'know, now that you mention it - i think most boys's favorite scouters are crosses between Grizzly Adams and Santa Claus! My friend Scot fit that description, including the beard - as does our current SM - but without the beard. I think that 'image' appears more approachable from a boy's point of view - or almost anyones, for that matter.

Dale: I'm sorry if you mis-understood me - or if you took offense at my flippant answer - I was being kinda silly and tone is hard to convey in writing. My brother is asthmatic - he is 10 yrs older than me and I remember many, many nights when I was a child when he would be up at night because he couldn't breathe. the inhalers, the medication and rushes to the emergency room - I certainly don't take it lightly. But there are many degrees of many illnesses. Many, thought not all, can be helped by various interventions - medication, diet, etc. Allowing those affected to live very 'normal' lives. including going camping - if that's what they want to do. I believe that ALL scouts should have the opportunity to do as much and go as far as they can. It's not fair to limit those that CAN camp, because the SM's kids have Asthma and they feel that they CAN'T camp. Loads of asthmatic kids CAN camp - we have two in our troop, one more severe than the other. One takes his inhaler, hardly ever uses it and is fine. The other, well, I've never seen him camp without his Dad - and they only started that recently (in 3 yrs of bveing with the troop). But they HAVE started him camping, because we made it clear that we would do anything to accomodate his medical needs that we could - so that he COULD participate to the best extent of his ability. that's what I meant by "real illnesses" - if something is severe enough to prevent a boy from participating - make the program so that he can participate during those parts he CAN do. Try not to make the program all or nothing. one size does NOT fit all! I guess I was trying to point out - in my flippant way - that rather than look for reasons why they "can't" they should look for reasons they "can" - that they should look to do the most that's "possible" for all the boys. Even sitting at home can be dangerous, and what kind of program can someone have hiding from minor discomforts like heat and bugs? Learning to overcome and how to succeed despite obstacles is part of the program! you seldom find the character building challenges in a troop meeting room - the program is designed for the outdoors!

Another ASM in my troop and I were discussing how our boys never wear their badge sashes - not on Scout Sunday,not at outings, not at camp, Even to COH, where they are being awarded badges, they 'forget' - on purpose, i suspect! but I found that many bring them - they just leave them in the car because they don't see other boys wearing theirs. Some of the more vocal scouts will actually tell the others that it's not appropriate to wear them! They think they are "bragging" if they wear them! I don't remember "Modest" or "Humble" as part of the Scout law, so why have them if not to WEAR them? the other ASM and I think they SHOULD wear them more often - And with our SM - decided we would encourage them to do so more often. We figure, if they earned badges, they SHOULD show them off - how else are their peers to know? (Court of Honors are often long lists of acheivements, not many listen and certainly few remember what was awarded - but that's a whole other discussion) not only that, but we figured that SEEING the older boys's acheivements would encourage the younger boys to work on badges as well. Before we got a chance to discuss this with the boys, something came up. unfortunately, we lost one of our ASM's to cancer friday - his funeral was today. He was a favorite of all the boys - a wonderful man; intellegent, caring and always willing to share and encourage the boys. The boys did a flag ceremony and were honor guards and ushers at the service. He was a special friend and mentor to my son, and to many of the boys - and I had Jon wear his badge sash - as certainly Jon would not have his rank and badges if not for this ASM's influence and help. Two other boys wore their sashes, and were told by the SPL and older boys to remove them, that they were not appropriate under the circumstances of a funeral. That it was not appropriate to brag or 'show off' at a funeral. Hmm. now, a couple of months ago, our pastor's father died. He was a veteran, and pastor asked the boys to do the flag ceremony at his funeral. HE did not know the boys in the troop - this was done as a favor to the pastor, who IS very active and known to the boys. In either case - to the general public, the badge sash is simply part of the uniform and a possible point of conversation. many badges would simply reflect that the boy has been a long-time or active scout. At either funeral, I don't think any person would have thought the boys were "bragging" or trying to draw attention from the deceased - to scouts and scouters, the badges have individual meaning - especially at the funeral today, which was filled with scouting influence and references, I would think they were doubly important - as this man's LIFE revolved around this troop and these boys. what do you think? our "uniform" tends to break down in the following categories, our troop does not have a troop neckerchief: 100% - BSA Shirt, badge sash, BSA pants/ shorts (socks and hat optional)almost never worn by our troop What I call "Camp Class A" for want of a better name - uniform shirt, uniform shorts or green shorts, scout socks. (hat optional) what our troop calls "class A" - Shirt with scout pants, or appropriately colored pants / jeans. (no camoflage allowed) Scout socks if you wear green shorts. (this is what most of the boys wore to the funerals) what our troop calls "class B" - troop t-shirt with logo and dark/khaki shorts / jeans when is full uniform,with the badge sash appropriate? what does your troop consider 'full uniform' and when do they wear it? what should be worn to the following events: Scout Sunday Scout events (district awards cermonies, etc.) Court of Honor Family nights Charter organization events non-scout funeral (attending as a troop) Scout/ Scouter funeral Traveling to and from troop outings(campouts, bike trips) Day trips community events (fairs, school recruitments nights) fundraisers summer camp daytime summer Camp flag ceremonies summer Camp meals any other events / places I can't think of...

I agree with KWC that taking off the uniform etc for dinner, etc is nuts. - but it isn't the uniform that's the problem there - it's the camp policy. One camp we go to wants dress uniform for flag, breakfast and dinner. By the end of the week - even the neatest boy's uniform is so dirty- it can stand by itself! Another camp we go to has a more practical bent - each TROOP decides when to wear uniform and what to wear - so we usually opt for full uniform for dinner and evening flag - and troop t-shirts for daily wear. it just is not practical to have more than one uniform for boys - they outgrow them too fast. plus, you would then have to duplicate things like patches, troop numbers and rank insignia. But what about making all the variable insignia easily removable? for example, show rank by pins - or those plastic patch covers - then they can be easily moved from one shirt to another. or put all insignia on the sash, or a vest - which can be removed during dirty work or play. It would be more practical then to have 2 or more shirts. many people have different ideas of the meaning of "comfortable" and 'strong wearing' Most catholic school uniforms are some combination of navy blue pants/ skirts and white shirts. there are ALOT of variations in price, quality, weight, etc. BSA could settle on a COLOR, that is readily available, and let people choose their own. which is what most families in our area do. most parents do NOT buy more than the scout shirt for their boys until they are sure they really will use full uniforms - for example - at camp. I've been in scouting 7 years, and only recently bought my first pair of scout pants for me, though I have two shirts. the fit is atrocious, they are very short in the waist / crotch, long in the leg (and i'm tall!) cut weird. I bought them only because I could not FIND anything else in my size and remotely appropriate color. I'm having to alter them to fit and hopefully, with the enormous amount of length - if i can find the zippers, i will make them into zip offs - for dual duty. But I'm lucky - I can sew. Add alterations costs to the $50 I paid for those pants, and that gets pretty pricy for a volunteer! Not only that - but I wore them today, and they are extrememly HOT - high Polyester content, and they were stiff and cut kinda funny - I'll have to remember not to stuff the pockets full - it could be uncomfortable sitting! There are LOADS of appropriately colored pants available for kids, that I have not needed to by my son more than one pair of actual uniform shorts - and because of the cut of them - he outgrows them faster! he wore them today, and they are so straight - there's not room for 'ease' of movement! He has a number of inexpensive (same color as scout uniform)khaki green pants, zip offs, and shorts that are much more comfortable, have a range of "fit" to suit different body types, have better pockets, and range of weights / warmth for different weather. I can get him 3-4 pairs of pants on sale for the price i would pay for 1 - 2 prs of scout shorts!

some of you may remember back after Scout Sunday, When I posted that my friend, Scot had been found to have brain cancer. Scot lost his fight Friday morning, slipping quietly away at home with family. Scot was a scout himself, years ago, the kind of scout who didn't make Eagle becasue he was too busy helping the OTHER boys in his troop. Attached is part of the memorial page we are starting for Scot on our troop site: Today we all said Goodbye to a friend who exemplified all the best ideals of Scouting; who shared unselfishly with our sons his wonderful humor, brilliant mind, endless curiousity and knowledge, compassion and sensitivity. We will miss his warmth, his steadying presence, and the joy with which he approached everything in life. While Scot never got the chance to be called "father" by anyone, he had more children than anyone I know - because every scout he ever crossed paths with was "his". He took a personal interest in each one, and he was as proud of each of "his boys" as if they WERE his own. He rejoiced in their successes, agonized over their troubles, taught them, guided them and befriended them. He was especially good at finding out each boy's special quailities, and bringing them out. No boy could ever be lonely (or bored!)if Scot was around! Scot positively touched the lives of everyone he knew -and I think he knew just about everyone! at least in our County! If wealth could be measured in affection and friendship he would be the wealthiest man in the world! At tonite's meeting, the scouts of Troop 159 remembered Mr Mansfield with smiles and laughs and stories. There were not many tears - Scot's influence was mostly one of joy and fun. Joy in nature, joy in learning, joy in sharing with others. I'd like to share the versions of the 23rd psalm that Pastor Lana shared at Scot's service: The 23rd Psalm of Scouting Scouting is my life, I shall not want; It helps me to camp in green pastures, and hike beside still waters; It restores my soul. It leads me in paths of learning, for the sake of myself and others. Yea, even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of the Woodbadge staffer, I have no fear; My patrol, my friends, are with me Their wit and their smiles, they comfort me. We have prepared tables in short time at the insistence of staffers; Scouting fills my head with knowledge, my brain overflows. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me home tonight, And I shall dwell in the house of Scouting forever. Indian Translation The Great Father above is a Shepherd Chief, and I am His and with Him I want not. He throws out to me a rope, and the name of the rope is Love. He draws me and He draws me to where the grass is green and the water is not dangerous. And I eat and lie down satisfied. Sometimes my heart is very weak and falls down, but He lifts it up again and draws me into a good road. His name is Wonderful. Sometime, it may be very soon, it may be longer, it may be a long, long time, He will draw me into a place between mountains. It is dark there, but I will not draw back. I will not be afraid, for it is in there, between these mountains, that the Shepherd will meet me. And the hunger I have felt in my heart, all through this life, will be satisfied. Sometimes, He makes the love-rope into a whip, but afterwards he gives me a staff that I may lean on. He puts his hand upon my head; all "tired" is gone. My cup He fills it till it runs over. What I tell you is true, I lie not. These roads that are a way ahead will stay with me through life and afterwards I will live in the big teepee, and sit down with the Shepherd Chief forever. ___________________ Scot may not be physically with us any more - but his presence will be felt at campouts, meetings and campfires for many, many years; in the influence he had on "his boys". Goodbye, my friend; may God finally grant you those Eagle wings you so richly deserve!

this is something I havenot heard of - I visited mackinac on a vacation a number of years ago and it would be a great place to take scouts - our troop LOVES bike trips - and island with bike and horse only transportation would be right up their alley! what do they do there ? is it some kind of program they sign up for? can someone e-mail me a link or information on it? tlaurat7@hotmail.com

A related problem we have, is that we can't seem to get the boys to plan or commit more than the meeting ahead of a campout. This means every time they are rushing to plan meals, do shopping, and end up packing the day of the outing. Every time they say "we gotta plan earlier" and every time, they wait until the meeting before. I am the troop activities coordinator and I coordinate for the two summer camps we are attending this summer and will serve as SM for one of them. I asked the PLC last meeting to plan time for a 'camp orientation night' for the parents of the NSP so we could have time to outline for them how badges and advancements work at camp - what to expect, what to pack, etc. Especially, I wanted to stress having the boys review the badges they want to work on, so they could do pre-requisites at home before camp. We leave for camp July 6. we have 4 weeks to do this. They "planned" this for June 30 - 6 days before camp. ?????? they also decided they didn't need a meeting June 16, as we are going on a campout the weekend before. So why didn't they plan the parent's night for that night??? We've had a sign-up sheet for that campout up for a month - 5 boys out of 28 have signed up - 3 have told me they are not going. so where are the rest???? We are new to boy-lead - been working on implementing alot of changes in the last year. But they complained about this with the adult leadership, and now they are repeating it. how do we break such bad habits? how do we get them to think ahead?

The other 6 will not go (to camp) because of one or more of the following: they heard it is hot, yeah? so don't they have a lake or a pool? Besides, isn't it hot EVERYWHERE in Texas in the summer??? the latrines are dirty, Well, yeah - but how much time do you plan to spend in the latrines, anyway? (at least they're not MOMS and don't have to SIT in 'em! LOL) their parents can not go because of work, My best vacation time is with my son at camp - where else can you get a good health spa for that kind of Money? i probably loose at least 10 lbs there every year! there might be bugs, i dunno about you - but we've got bigger bugs at home, and no campfires, we can't see the stars close into the city, or the wildlife that goes along with those bugs and critters they might have asthma problems We have allergies - that's what drugs are for. Are you gonna stop living because of a fixable health problem? you can have asthma at home, too! and mom has never heard anything good about camp. boy could I tell HER stories! A kid has not lived until they've gone on a snipe hunt, stayed up all night to watch a meteor shower, passed his swim test, told ghost stories by the fire, Shot an arrow or a perfect rifle target, burned his own dinner, conquered homesickness, dumped a canoe, and had a million other adventures you find only at summer camp. If a boy goes home from camp with his bag overstuffed with "crafts" he made, brown as a nut (from dirt and suntan)full of skeeter bites and so tired he sleeps for 24 hours - it was a great experience for him! There's little reason to go for merit badges as the troop provides optional merit badge classes with very generous counselors on a weekly basis. maybe they do - but what about Archery and shooting? and the waterfront badges? those are kinda tough to do in meetings. Wilderness survival? Pioneering? orienteering? the nature badges? they lend themselves to an outdoor setting. I can't help but think the boys are missing out on the meaning behind these badges if they hardly ever camp? your TROOP should encourage participation in summer camp whether particular members are into it or not. It should be offered and available to EVERY scout. If you don't have enough boys to make up a unit at camp one your own you could see if you could pal up with another troop and have you boys attend with them as a separate camp patrol. If they have a good time, and talk about it, they may convince others from the troop to try it. Aside from OA - the Camping Badge is required for Eagle - needing 20 nights of camping - how are these boys supposed to have a chance at that if they only camp twice a year and never go to summer camp? (and I assume some have never gone camping?) and cabin camping doesn't count, either! I think you are on the right track in trying to get patrol outings started, especially if you do them nearby, so the boys with true illnesses can come for the day - if not at night. Hook them little by little - but then, plan something really cool for nights - so they'll WANT to stay and feel they're missing out if they don't. A big bonfire. Get up at 3 am for a star hike. Go fishing at the crack of dawn and watch a sunrise. Eat breakfast in the canoes on the water. have them make their own shelters out of tarps and lashings to sleep in. stuff like that. good luck on getting them charged up!

Recruiting non-scouts? or recruiting from cub packs? We have also recently put a recruiting effort on - in both areas in the last year - as we don't have a "feeder pack" and it worked! We've gotten 3 new boys - 2 non-scouts and a transfer, and 8 new crossover cubs! Or Troop determined that we would do an ongoing effort to recruit and get the Webelos / non-scouts in to things with our troop multiple times in their two-years as webelos - rather than just fill the cub requirement of attending ONE Scout meeting and ONE activity for their AOL. our boys figured that if the cubs did things with us enough to get to know a few guys, they would want to go where they knew someone already. I'm proud of our boys for thinking in the long term - rather than think of ONE recruiting activity at a time. Their plan is to do something specifically designed to include webelos or non-scouts about 3 or 4 times a year. At the same time, they want to make it appeal to the Boys in our troop - so most of the things they came up with, while rather light to keep in line with Cub Scout rules, include advancement work or some other "hook" for our boys to want to participate, too. some of the things we did - for both cubs and non-scouts - we recently did an overnight in a Museum WWII submarine. A museum, aquarium, zoo or other "lock-in" type would work as well. We told the boys they could invite a non- scout friend and we also invited a webelos den and their Dads. This works because while Cubs are not usually allowed to camp with scouts, this is an activity that is unusual enough to attract the scouts, but tame enough to qualify for cub scouts. On almost any activity - encourage a boy to bring along a non- scout friend. Talk to the scouts parents, as well. their boys will have more fun if a buddy is along, and parents benefit by having the troop be succesful and their boys happy. Make sure that EVERYONE knows, however, that the non-scout must have scout health forms, permission slips etc, and must be of the age and other requirements of a boy scout to keep within BSA guidelines. If a boy comes along a few times, encourage him to join. Realize, however - that if a boy joins through a friend - and hasn't been a scout all along - they may not be as gung-ho for the advancements and badgework - at least, not right away. they're just along for a good time! Good cub den recruitment ideas included - a swim night at our local high school pool in the winter - follow Safe Swim! the cubs can get their Auquanaut pin, and the boy scouts can get advancement requirements. We meet in the city park in the summer - so we will do at least one night as sample cooking night - this is where we try new methods of cooking, try new recipies, etc. We don't cook a meal, per se - but we have enough different things that every body gets to cut, dice, pare, use charcoal and box ovens, stoves and dutch ovens and of course - EAT!!! Another good opportunity to include the cubs in a fun activity and a meeting - food ALWAYS attract boys! a hike at a local corn maze in the fall - locally a number of farms around here have these at Halloween - a couple are REALLY HUGE. We use this as an annual event with Cubs, and have a campfire there afterwards with a cobbler or something. The "maze" averages 8-10 miles and has Punch Points along the way - so if the boys get a certain amount of hole punches at points, we know they went at least 5 miles. We bring compasses, and match the cubs with our exisiting patrols - they teach the cubs how to use the compass and find their way with it, completeing the 5 mile compass hike requirement for the scouts and some for the cubs, too. Short bike trips on local trails and a sack lunch. Conservation district events - our conservation district has planned programs & kits you can pick up and do yourself, or already planned events lead by volunteers that are low - per-person cost. We have Courts of honor on 5th mondays - but in August, after Camp, we have a BIG court of honor at a park ofr scout camp, because the boys have so many badges from camp. this is a family picnic and awards/ skits / games and FOOD. We often invite cubs and families to this each year. A running theme through these recruitment events is to keep them simple and take advantage of OTHER organizations already planned events. We don't want to waste tons of planning energy and time on recruitment events that are generally tamer than the more complicated things our boys like to do. We're still a small troop, and don't want to spread our resources too thin. but there is always room for "just fun" and not always going on a high adventure trip or working on advancements!

This is not scout related - or maybe a troop could chip in and make this a service project by or including this as part of patrol trip? Going to springfield might help with one of the citizenship badges.... but let me explain.... In addition to scouting, my son and I are involved with Golden Retreiver Rescue of Wisconsin - which also services Northern Illinois. Breed specific rescue groups like ours take in dogs of their breed specialty from county shelters, strays and owner relinquishments. The dogs are placed in foster homes with families while they recieve medical care, training and are behaviorally assesed for placement in a permanent adoptive home. In addition to assesing dogs for intake and interviewing potential adoptive families; one of the things Jon and I do is provide transport - say, from the previous owner to the foster home, or from the foster home to the adoptive family. In one unusual case we are trying to transport a dog named Apollo from Appleton, WI to St. Louis, MO to re-unite him with his original family, including 12 yr old girl. Here's the story.... As often happens, a family split, mom got custody of the daughter, and dad got custody of the dog, with the agreement that should he ever not want the dog, Mom and daughter get to have the dog back. Dad moved to Wisconsin, remarried and new wife hates dogs. Rather than notify the ex-wife- Dad simply turns the dog over to rescue. Luckily, mom finds out about this, and tries to get the Golden back. problem is, the Golden is in Wisconsin, and his little girl & Mom are in St. Louis. We have transport to the greater chicago area / collar counties. I will have him here overnight Friday night, June 6, and St Louis rescue can pick him up somewhere north of Springfield Sat or Sunday. I can meet someone around the Chicago suburbs; Du Page, Boone, Kane counties? if they can take him north of Springfield, IL. to meet with a St. Louis rescue volunteer. The foster family says the dog, Apollo, is a real sweetheart and that if they didn't know he HAD a loving family waiting for him, they would keep him. This is a "but for the grace of God, go I" situation. When I divorced many years ago, I was faced with the posibility of having to give up my beloved 7 yr old goldens. I managed to keep them somehow - being a single mom isn't easy - fiunancially -and they were our best buddies for many years. Toby lived to 13 1/2 and Tara lived past 15 - they made a HUGE difference in our lives as a family. Jon's dad once gave away his black lab, Cinders, they had that Jon loved, and we found out too late to rescue her from the shelter they turned her into - she went to another family. It was right after Tara died, and Jon was really devasted by losing all his dogs in a few short years. Jon could understand old age and cancer taking Tara and Toby - but giving away a family member is something children NEVER understand. Not long after that, we adopted Tristan from rescue, and he brought our whole family out of a deep depression. I don't know this little girl or her dog - Apollo. All I know is that she's 12 - just Jon's age. I keep seeing Jon and this little girl facing the same pain - and this time I might be able to help STOP it! So I've taken a personal interest in this particular transport. is there anyone out there that can help transport this baby home to his little girl? Contact Laura Tobin laurat7@sbcglobal.net or tlaurat7@hotmail.com We tried last weekend, and if we can't get it together this weekend, we will keep trying until we do. I would take him all the way myself if I could - but I have been unemployed since January and with Gas prices as high as they are, and a gas-sucking Van, I just can't afford the long trip.

Duh - i didn't mean to do that ..... How well is "well enough"? You are dealing with two things here - the BSA requirements for participation and the parent's perception of their son's abilities - apparently THEY want more protections in place for their son? For BSA - is he First Class? has he passed the BSA Swimmer Test? has he passed the other requirements for attending Canoe Base? What requirements does the Camp /Troop put on this activitiy? What kind of training are they going to give the boys at Base? What is his canoeing skill level compared to the other boys in the group? for his parents - Either he is qualified and they are overprotective, or he is NOT qualified, and THEY are putting the restriction on the troop to protect their child at the expense of the others. YES, THEY ARE PUTTING SOMEONE ELSE'S CHILD IN JEPARDY FOR THEIR OWN. THEY feel their child does not have the necessary skills, and that someone else's child (possibly mine??) be given the respoinsibility of saving theirs, should something happen. As a parent - I would object to that responsibility being placed on my son - regardless of his skill. there have been times when the rescuer gets killed or injured trying to rescue someone - As a scout leader, the very LEAST I can do is follow the rules set up to protect EVERY boy on the trip to the best of my ability. which means don't send a boy out in a canoe with an albatross around his neck!!!! ___________ I can empathise with the boy and his parents. As a child myself I LOVED canoeing and went on many trips with my family to the boundary waters. at age 12 I had more experience on whitewater and in packing a canoe and canoe tripping than most of my leaders and counselors - but at the time, the Girl scout rules were that you had to be a Red Cross Swimmer to canoe at camp and on council trips. To get the card - you had to take the whole class. I could never last through a class, because if I put my head under water repeatedly, I got ear infections and had to quit the class. I could swim like a fish. If GSA had used a 'Swim Test' like BSA does, I would have passed, no problem. But they required that card. so I never got to canoe at camp until I was 16 and a counselor myself. then the rules changed - As a counselor - If i could pass the swimmers test, i could canoe. period. so i did. For a kid, it was very dissapointing - but I managed to live through it. ________________________ i'd rather have a boy dissapointed, but healthy and ALIVE - than to explain to parents that a boy is dead or injured because someone insisted on special treatment! _________________ We recently came up on something similar on a rafting trip we had planned. Upon discovering that it wasn't quite as "tame" as it was made out to be originally - we limited it to Venture patrol, First Class and above, boys who had At least; Swimming or Lifesaving and Canoeing or Whitewater, and First Aide badges. They had to pass their BSA Swimmer test again and have a Class 3 health form on file. We also had to have SEEN them in action on the water to make a personal assesment of their skill. Which meant new transfers and NSP were not eligable. We took the NSP with us - they did Orienteering / hiking while the Venture patrol was on the water. In camp, the older boys taught the younger boys camp skills and they all played games. The enthusiasm the older boys had for their adventure inspired the younger boys to work toward those skills with a goal of doing the trip themselves sometime. It worked great!

A young boy, going to canoe base, still can not swim well enough. The parents are insisting on having other stronger swimmers be in the canoe with him. Or they have also suggested hiring a lifeguard to go in his canoe.

i had a hard time finding out about wood badge in my council too, at first. and they do have a veil of secrecy over it - mostly it seems you have to commit to it 6 - 8 months in advance, without being told enough details to plan for it. I actually signed up for it once - and had to cancel, because i lost my job and am not sure I will be able to get the necessary friday's off for the two weekends. That's another confusing thing - some people told me that the friday of the weekends starts AFTER working hours - others told me it was three FULL days - starting Friday AM both weekends. makes it a little tough for a single working parent. Our council also requires that you have taken LST for your position (not a problem) AND outdoor leader training - which IS a problem, as they only offer it once a year. Plus, I spend a week of my vacation each year going to camp with our boys - and yes - it IS my vacation - I have a good time, too. I take time in the evenings and weekends for campouts and training, roundtable, service projects, badge counseling and paperwork - I am also our troops activities coordinator. I basically have a second (unpaid) job in scouting. I WANT to take Woodbadge, for the troop and for myself, but is it really necessary to require someone to take off two days of work for it? AND Outdoor leader training - another commitment of time for a training I could probably teach? I dunno - seems like they do try to make it mysterious and elitist.

Our troop does not have a tie and slide. a few of the boys wear BSA hats. We encourage, but do not require BSA pants. We ask for khaki green, jeans or tan pants. Sweats and camoflage are not acceptable. most of our boys have a few pairs of khacki green pants that look great with the uniforms - many are zip-offs. Except at summer camp - every boy must have at least one FULL uniform - BSA shirt, BSA shorts & socks, plus a belt if we can find one to fit. if he doesn't have them - he can 'check them out' for the week from the troop uniform bank. (He can check out extras, too) no cost - he only has to return them clean. We encourage outgrown uniform parts be donated to the troop. our summer uniform is a heather grey t-shirt with logo and green or blue shorts. this is for meetings in the park and activities, daily camp wear, etc. We recently ordered new troop shirts, which will be tan with a larger logo. the boys are expected to have enough of these to wear every day at camp. People complain about the toughness of the fabrics - but i've never seen a problem with them - just the opposite, in fact. the pants especially, are so tough, most boys don't like them because they are stiff and HOT. As a "big" and tall person - i'm hard to fit. Our SM and another ASM are also "big" people - and have a tough time with uniform sizing and prices. I just bought my first actual BSA pants after years of scouting - because I could not find another brand that fit me, in the appropriate color. My old pair - which were NOT BSA, just plain wore out. I'm lucky, because I CAN sew. - these BSA pants, which cost me over $50, are going to have to be altered. But for once, because they are so long - I won't look like I'm waiting for a flood! In fact, they are SO long - If i can figure out how, I might make them into zip-offs! I would love to see the uniform have more "options" - for example, when we go on trips, we require the boys to wear their uniform shirts for travel. but that means they wear the same shirt for two days. Teenage boys get dirty, smelly, and the younger ones seem to have a habit of wearing whatever they eat on their shirts..... Changing clothes in the middle of an active day to preserve the uniform doesn't make sense to anyone - and we like to be identifiable while doing activities, too. it's a little expensive to have more than one uniform shirt - though many adults do so. I wish BSA would make the shirt a little cheaper, and put all the "changeable" insignia (like ranks) on in pins or on the badge sash. that way it would be cheaper and more efficient to have more than one shirt. I also seldon see the boys wear their badge sashes - Except, maybe on Scout Sunday or Court of Honors. and I NEVER see Boy Scouts wearing red patch vests, even though they are technically allowed to. it is considered a cub scout thing - uncool. What things do your boys wear their badge sashes and FULL uniforms for?

your troop and the rest of his family are in our prayers, too. laura

Dan - you said "The ASM for NSP which are mostly 2nd year leaders do not believe in the NSP program." it's really tough to sell something you can't believe in yourself. is there any possibility that YOU could take a NSP yourself and SHOW them? change is tough for everyone - especially the adults! We also re-structured our troop in the last year, and have our first NSP of 8 - it's all new to us, too - but because we have a dedicated core of three - our SM and two ASM's who BELIEVE in doing things the "scout way" it is working WONDERFULLY! all 8 new boys, & 2 older boys who transferred in (they transfered in at scout rank, even though they are 13 and 14) are advancing steadily and really excited about the program. Our NSP has been together for about 6 weeks and 1 campout and most will be finishing their tenderfoot this weekend in a NSP campout. Many have a significant amount of 2nd & 1st class work done, too, and we have discovered that most have a skill or knowledge that they can teach their patrol mates! the excitement and sense of accomplishment of this group of boys is palpable - it is truly rewarding! We have some ASM's and committee people who aren't sold on NSP - so we simply put them somewhere else - where their attitude can't dampen the boys enthusiasm. They are advisors to the reg & venture patrols where their skills can be very useful to the older boys who are more self-reliant. they are terrific scouters - they just don't have the patience to deal with mostly 10 & 11 yr old 5th graders who still need many reminders. With this start - if we can get them thru summer camp, I'd lay odds on ALL of them sticking with the troop! As for one-hour's original question - divide and conquer is the idea! i like the idea of listing ONE or two friends and telling the boys that they WILL be placed with at least ONE of their choices. if they only pick ONE - chance are you'll get 10 wanting to be with Dave - 'cause he's the "popular" kid - and then where will you be? NSP is the answer, there, too. Get 'em started out right and by this time next year - you'll be sitting in a lawn chair watching them run the show!

A) the program theme for the next month is canoeing. Hawk has opening ceremonies for the month, panthers agree to do closing ceremonies. The troop is going canoeing on the last weekend. They boys have heard about a river 5 hours away that they have never canoed before so they decide to go there. 1. Listen 2. if they don't bring it up - mention, Safety afloat - do we have the appropriate requirements met, equip & leadership avail, etc - if not, how do we meet them? or how must we restrict the trip to meet those criteria (maybe make it a trip for tested swimmers and trained boys only? venture patrol? B) They decide on topics to learn at troop meeting and divide responsibilities among patrols. Smile and nod C) They decide they are tired of summer camp and want to go to the BSA High Adventure Canoe Base instead. The troop Guide points out that the new scouts would not be eligible and need summer camp but he would rather go to the canoe base. Smile & nod - i would encourage scheduling to allow BOTH - NEXT year - as it is too late to change this years camp plans (May) & as even the older boys may want the adventure trip AND the opportunity to do badgework available at camp. AFTER the PLC, I would pull the Troop guide aside and commend him in being conciencious of the younger boys needs. it is not mandatory that the troop guide attend camp with the younger boys. D) They decide to offer both options to the scouts. But they still want to use a different summer camp. go for it! E) Popcorn sales is coming up and the scouts want to use profits to reduce the trip and summer camp cost. In the past the troop has put 60% into the troop fund and 40% into scout accounts. this time the boys decide it should be 80% to the scout accounts and 20% to the troop treasury. listen and see if they come up with contacting the committee about this themselves. If not - propose they talk to the comittee and find out what that money is otherwise earmarked for if the troop can afford this change. I may suggest they think about other fundraisers to ermark for that purpose. F) The Scouts decide to stay up till 4am on the August campout to watch the Purseus metorite shower that starts at midnight and runs till dawn. GREAT! I'd volunteer the use of my telescope.... G) The guys decide that next year they should go to Hawaii to witness a total solar eclipse. Great! go for it! As this is a year away - if they don't mention HOW they are going to make it happen, I would speak with the SPL after meeting about any fine point of making this happen that they missed. H) They decide that any scout not in a correct uniform next week has to push a penny across the gym floor with his nose. if they "decided" this, they obviously do not know or understand the no-hazing rules. if the SPL did not stop it before it got that far, i would. I) Jimmy is a nerd, nobody likes him why does he have to be the troop. He doesn't like to camp, he's not good at games, why does he even come? They vote to have Jimmy leave the troop. Same as above.

As a badge counselor, ASM and parent of an ADD child in a troop with LOTS of ADD boys - I am very much aware of the lack of 'organizational maturity' many of our boys have when they first come into the troop ADD or not! for advancements, the handbook makes it pretty easy - they have a checklist and you go right down it - the problem is getting the boys to remember their books, and then remember to get them signed off when they complete a requirement. With our new scout patrol, i tell them - "go get your books NOW and lets sit down and go over what we've done today." until they get the habit themselves. With my son's book - he has a cover on it to start with, and there is always a pen tucked in the cover pocket and a partial pad of post-it notes. If he completes a requirement outside of scouts -(like when he got his CPR card at school) i try to get him to make a note or stick the "proof" in the book right away, so it will be with him when he goes to scouts - because I KNOW he will not "remember" when the time comes! Badges are a different thing, though - since there are so many and they keep updating them. my son once went to a merit badge college where they gave him a folder with the badges he signed up for and their worksheets in it. this struck me as a good idea, and we have continued this by printing out the badge requirements for each badge he is working on and putting them in this folder with clear page protectors between the badges. His Blue Card is stapled to the front page of the requirements, so it can be initialed, but not lost. Any part of the badge that needs written work is pinned in behind the requirements, can be put in the page protector sleeve, or he can go on the computer and answer the questions right there, and print it out later to add to his book. As he finishes a badge and gets it completed and signed off we take it out and "retire" it - the paperwork, his portion of the blue card, etc go in a three ring binder on his shelf at home. (I figure this will make a good basis for a memory book if and when he reaches Eagle) At this point in time - he is working on 6 badges - most of which he's waiting for something special to complete them (Camping he needs 5 more nights of camping, Shooting & Archery he can only finish target shooting at camp, Space Exploration he's building his rocket, etc.) he's finally gotten the habit ingrained of taking his handbook and this folder to every scout event/ meeting - in case something comes up to get sign offs! at least he has it in the car!this has REALLY cut down on Jon losing Blue cards and credit for requirements done - especially when the badge counselor changes - like when camp or a merit badge college issues a partial completion! I have noticed since becoming an ASM, and a badge counselor, the number of badge cards issued, lost and re-issued - and requirements being lost with them! I'm thinking of starting a folder like this for each of our 8 new scouts in our troop - whether or not they keep it up will be up to them - but I think it's a good way to keep them aware of working on badges, without the constant 'Looking for papers' this age seems to be prone to loosing. Any other suggestions for teaching the boys to organize and track progress easily?

We have one who is suddenly RE- interested in scouting in order to get his Eagle in - luckily, he 'tuned in' with enough time - he just turned 17 in Feb and has been skating thru the last two years in the troop with minimal attendance, etc. but he still wants something for nothing - I'm a Badge Counselor for Camping Badge - the other night at meeting he asked if I could go over his blue card with him, as he had all the requirements done. Sure! - so we went through them. he hadn't even read the pamphlet! he thought he could answer them all right off the cuff and i would give him credit for them! on the requirements where it said "WRITE a camping plan" he thought he could just tell me - I told him, no - it says "write". On "name 4 kinds of tents, he said, 'Canvas and nylon?" on the "make a duty roster" he obviously knew what they were - but as our troop has just started using them, I asked him to make one up - he said 'oh, but we always do those!' I said, yeah - but I haven't seen YOU do one, and until we reorganized the troop this last winter, I'VE never seen anyone in the troop actually use one -so I don't know if YOU have ever written one! He didn't know what the "Outdoor Code" was - had to look it up in front of me - but he had done enough camping to know the principles involved. So I signed off on about half of them, asked him to WRITE the written requirements for next week, and asked him to sit with our new scout patrol and guide them thru planning a duty roster and some other planning things for their upcoming patrol outing. Camping should be a real easy badge to get - if you do a reasonable amount of camping with the troop at all - you just have to follow the pamphlet - and WRITE where it says WRITE and TELL where it says TELL. I don't think I'm being too picky - am I? lauraT

As it states in the book - you can't add, modify or take away requirements - except under a disability clause. i think someone in your troop has WAY too much time on their hands if they are figuring percentages of attendance on different meetings /events / activities! Can't you give them something more usefull to do? like counting the forks in the supply room? We don't have a 'formal' policy in our troop - but if a boy misses out on activities more than a few times without calling his patrol leader, the SPL or one of the adults to let them know WHY he is going to be absent, he will GET a call from someone. we had a boy recently who really pushed to be PL of his patrol and right after elections he vanished - was never around for meetings, nor activities, campouts, service work. he didn't tell his APL, either, that he wasn't going to be around. the adults noticed that the APL was running things (rather well, too) and that PL was never around and brought it to the attn of the SM. SM called the boy, asked him what was up - boy said he was in Soccer, and the practices and games conflicted; besides, if he couldn't go on campouts because of soccer, he resoned, why should he show up at meetings to plan? SM pointed out that his responsibility was to lead the patrol, whether or not it benefitted him personally. Also, two other boys on his team made meetings, even if they arrived late and in Soccer clothes - and that he should at least notify his APL when he wasn't going to be there. SM told the boy he could remain PL, but he expected him to at least show up even if he could not make Saturday events because of games. At the time, there were 2 months of Soccer season left - so SM spoke with APL and is giving APL 2 mos credit for POR toward rank, because they know that PL will not be able to make most campouts and weekend activities - and APL will effectively be PL those months. PL is getting credit for 4 of his 6 mos - IF he shows up and participates outside of soccer season. This incident prompted a discussion with the troop as a whole - that boys should be aware that if they can't make the commitment, they should NOT put their names in for the job. If they need a POR for rank advancement - they can talk to the SM & go for a job they can do around their other activity, or they can wait until they CAN make the 6 month commitment to be PL (or similar). We have a number of boys into various sports or other activities. most are very good about letting people know when they can't make something, and still carry their weight otherwise - or attend activities by picking up info by phone or the troop website when they've missed a meeting. Some effectively 'drop out' for the season of their chosen sport, (with notice) and are back in very actively, when that sport is over (soccer and baseball are two biggies) some cannot attend activities because of lack of parental support (they just don't bring them) or minor medical reasons - we have one kid who is not that fragile - but his parents panic everytime he sneezes; they just will NOT let him camp if he has the sniffles or is on antibiotics for his latest ear/nose/throat infection. he participates as much as he is allowed to by his parents - do we penalize him because Mom is over-protective? our general rule is that if the boy makes an effort to keep communication open and participate as much as his circumstances allow - then he passes the participation requirement.