LauraT7

I'm not going to get into the ADA argument, but it occurs to me that many of the counselors I have met at camp are young people looking to be teachers and other service oriented fields. It would not surprize me at all to find that someone on staff knows "some" sign language or has other interests that might help. I would contact the camp director and ask him to look into the staff he is now hiring and see if anyone meets the bill. that being said, both these boys are obviously of an age to read & write - if they don't want to carry a pad and paper around all the time, get them a small whiteboard and markers! and work out visual cues ahead of time for swimming, etc. make sure they are paired at all times with a hearing boy or adult from their troop who knows and understands them. I see a prime opportunity for working on the handicap awareness badge or for just doing the things we teach in scouting - to help and show loyalty to a team mate. Laura T

Barry - I like your idea of a contract - esp if you have some parents in the troop that DON't "get it". But i disagree with having a re-election. sst3rd - is your APL also and elected position? or does your PL select his APL? if the APL is elected, or if they are elected as a TEAM - then the boys have ALREADY voted - this is a model of how our democratic system works. If the PL can't do his job, the APL steps in. That is the APL's JOB. Does it make any difference if the PL is in the hospital? what if his family moves? or if they go to europe for a month? or his parents are stupid? No- the BOYS elected a PL and an APL to lead their patrol and speak for them. let them do their jobs! The one thing I would change is to give the APL leadership credit for his two months of PL service. A SM can assign such a leadership job. I might even consider letting him wear a PL patch, for the remainder of his term - esp if there are going to be regular ALL troop elections at the end of the two months that he serves. If he does the job, he deserves the rewards. LauraT

What is it, specifically, that is giving them trouble? Is there something they don't want to do - or are there adults who don't want to "let go"? Training always helps - have you had a JLT recently or sent boys to JLT camp? Do you have any OA boys?

Twocubdad - nope, you probably DON'T want to know what you've spent on that stuff - just comfort yourself with the fact that some of it is tax-deductable! Besides, while you can't take it with you, I have a theory that there is a special place in heaven reserved for dedicated volunteer scouters - some kind of replica Gilwell field, without the bugs! And only your 'good stuff' goes with you, and never wears out! OGE - you got me thinking and I went and checked my plastic "trunk" for what I DIDN'T remember - yup - more "stuff" - TP, an extra air mattress and sleeping bag liner, a first aid kit, packets of Kleenex and hand warmers, some kid's hat and a glove from Klondike (not ours) Bungee cords! A bike repair kit, and my rechargable pressure pump for bike tires, maps and info on the Sugar River trail (bike trip was in September?) too many Wisconsin maps! an old phone book, a small tarp, a couple of plastic garbage bags, a small flashlight, a box of Macaroni & cheese ???? and some hot chocolate and tea bags in a baggie. Two bottles of water and a bowl for Tristan (my dog). doggie pickup bags, Jon's lost copy of "Frightfuls Mountain", Dirt, sand and doggie fuzz. I emptied the "trunk" cleaned and refilled it - put some stuff away - I am NOT looking into the glovebox, underseat drawer and side bins! LOL! I give up!

in the requirements for the SCOUT rank - it says "complete an application and health history signed by your parent or guardian." is the "health history" part of the application itself? or are they asking for the health form that we need for outings and camp - signed by a Dr.? I think it's ON the application itself - but since I don't have one and can't remember Jon's, I don't know for sure. We have 5 new boys coming tonite - they just crossed over yesterday. We have a Court of Honor coming up right after spring break, March 31 - and it would be great if they could get their Scout Ranks Badges then - really make them feel part of the troop from the first COH. But our Advancement chair is leaving for vacation over spring break, so we gotta get our order in by next week, before he's out of town. I do know that all the boys have filled out an application and that someone in the troop has them. We can cover everything else tonite - the SPL is going to have THEM do opening and closing ceremony! If we can get the parents to sign off on the Youth protection pamphlet, and return it next week, we've got it ALL covered! YIS Laura

OGE - I never heard of 'Cracker Barrel', except as a restaurant, until joining up with the Boy Scouts two years ago. I've been a girl Scout forever, ( since the 60's, anyway) and never heard the term used that way before - so I can understand your parents' confusion! LOL! LauraT

Car? hmmm do we have a car? OH! You mean the "Scoutmobile?" OK, I confess, what the heck does a single mom of one need with a huge VAN? to haul STUFF, of course! my little olds was just too small! My van reflects two loves - Scouting and my Golden Retreiver. you can always find evidence of both in there! LOL! I have a "trunk" in my van (er, Scoutmobile) a large plastic trunk that holds maps, jumper cables and the two hitches, (we have different sized hitches on the troop trailers - so I need two different sized hitch balls!) and the like - in addition to essentials like extra rain ponchos, couple of sweatshirts, spare shoes, old towels, leashes (long and short) fishing gear, a handfull of ropes, a small tool box, an extra jackknife, two mess kits and extra cups - and miscellaneous other stuff, depending on the season. I have to have a "trunk" to put it all in, or it would be rooling around under my feet, loose! Troop equipment is in constant motion - in and out - everything from Klondike sleds to Dutch ovens. I also manage a fundraiser for the troop - collecting used ink carttridges for recycling - so I always have flyers (to give out) and often old cartridges in there. And then theres the "big grey bag" - a carry all with all my papers, handbooks, and the binder of stuff I am currently working on, etc. I'm pretty good about getting stuff out, but more always goes in to replace it! LauraT

sorry - your link didn't work - I got some web-hosting site? I'd be interested in taking alook at these - if i could get to the site...

LOL! I was afraid you would say that - I'M his merit badge counselor - and the only one for 'Camping' in the troop. I have no problem signing off on the other requirements - they've been done in the troop or otherwise well-documented. I have a couple of other boys in the troop working on the badge - but none as close to finishing as Jon. Even if we count our 2 family campouts (5 nights), he still doesn't have enough and needs more. I think I'll ask around at roundtable next week and see if I can find someone else in the area that counsels that badge... and ask them. See what is considered 'acceptable' in our area. I've also been working on getting some of our other adults registered as badge counselors - certainly there should be more than ONE person in our troop qualified to counsel "Camping" ! lauraT

I would REQUIRE a minimum amount of ongoing training every year for every adult volunteer that works with the troop in any capacity on a regular basis -(for example, more than 3 events a year or attends more than 8 scout meetings or accepts a committee position) ESP COMMITTEE & ASM's! Training is not THAT hard to do!

Two cub Dad - I would've bet you were right - only I thought it was above the LEFT pocket, in place of the world scouting emblem - so I looked it up, and we're both wrong! Well, maybe - it doesn't say that the conservation patch is a "temporary insignia", if it is, it goes on the Right pocket - and it would be covered up by the Arrow points / compass patch attached to your shirt pocket button. the conservation patch is an INTERNATIONAL award - and I can't find anything, cub scout or boy scout, that says exactly where it, specifically, should go, or that the boy scout can't wear it on his boy scout uniform if he earned it as a cub. But I also remember reading somewhere that a cub /boy scout can only earn this ONCE - so I had our webelos do it because it was much easier as a cub than as a scout! and now I can't find THAT anywhere, either! I remember my reasoning was that they could wear it on their boy scout uniforms - as they finally got it at the same time they got their Arrow of Light. otherwise, they wouldn't have had it long enough to sew it on!

Ordinarily, knowing most family campers, I'd agree with you KS - Mom and Dad plan the trip and the kids ride along. and I understand that the "intent" is for them to plan and implement the trips - but it doesn't SAY that - specifically. But as I grew up in girl scouting, canoeing and LNT camping in the northwoods with my family, so has Jon been trained in the arts of LNT camping since he was 2 or 3 yrs old. LOL - he didn't even recognise the phrase "leave no trace" he just thinks that IS the only way to do things! Plus I'm a single mom - slightly overweight, 40-something, with a bad back - (and I get alot of mileage out of that! LOL!)if we go - he has to do most of the packing, hauling, etc. and since he is the pickiest eater, he usually plans the meals, too! Jon has known from a very young age that he has to help out or things don't happen. I won't do it for him and I can't do it all myself! We're a "patrol" of 2 on our camping trips! (and a dog!) If it's "intent" we're going on - since our troop only started using boy run & the patrol method since last summer, and I have yet to see a duty roster, meal plan or shopping list, or a properly stocked patrol box (we're working on all those)in our troop - then our 'family' campouts meet the "intent" better than the troop outings! so my question is, CAN he use a few nights of family camping to fill out the requirement? He needs just one more Eagle required badge (camping) and his 4 mos POR to reach STAR. He has 2 weeks of summer camp - of which he can only use 6 nights (1 week,Sun-Sat), and 5 other nights of camping with the troop. He wants to see if he can make STAR before July - and summer camp. He needs 9 more by June. The troop does not plan on doing that many camping nights before then - and one outing is a submarine overnighter - very cool - but it doesn't count - indoors. laurat

BobWhite - good answer! of course, your answers always are good! Where's Yaworski been hiding - does he know about the humourous side you've been hiding? LOL! might knock him off his campfire stump! thanks for the smile! LauraT

is there any requirement that say he must have the badges & other requirements done before his project? unless there are - i don't see any rreason to hold this young man back. Right now, as gung-ho as he sounds, he might have the time and resources to devote to an Eagle project - if he waits until 15 or 16 when girls, jobs and other demands interfere, he might have a harder time juggling those demands. I would not skimp on ANY requirements, though. In the end, doing his project at this time might make him a better scout for the troop, too. And Mark? I have seen a few boys who were focused enough to really work steadily on a goal and able to complete those kind of requirements at that pace. We have two or three in our troop that could do that, Easily! and have! Especially if the family is dedicated to scouting, and / or a homeschooling family that uses scouting as part of their schooling program. It's not the profile of an ordinary 13 yr old, mind you, but it's not that uncommon, either! LauraT

ok - so let me get this straight - A scout provides on his Eagle application the names of 5 people who are willing to give him a recommendation, including his minister. it's handy if they already HAVE the letters to go with the application to the BOR and to national, but is is not required of the scout to provide them. This particular scout did NOT have the letters in hand at his BOR, but DID have the names and contact info on the application; his BOR passed him, and now they are asking for the letter(s) - from the Scout? What happens if the minister (or other reference person) is a disorganized person and "forgets" to send the requested letter? what if the minister gets transferred to another church, or dies during the process? In other words - if they don't GET the letter, for whatever reason (it's not the scouts responsibility anyway - he just provided the info), is national going to Deny him his Eagle?

We have about 20 boys. Our troop has usually done two fundraisers a year - popcorn is one, which doesn't bring us much, as we have too many competeing troops and packs selling at the same time. Our other fundraiser is unique to our area, in that one of our long time sponsors owns a parking lot across the street from the county fair, and for the 5 days of the fair, he lets us charge people to park in his lot. It's a great fundraiser - but the city recently sold the fairgrounds land, and we may lose it this year or next. It brings us over $5000 a year. we have done other fundraisers - a car wash specifically to raise funds for JLT, and we sell bottled water at parades and fairs - things we go to anyway. We recently signed up with Cartridges for Kids, which pays for laser and ink cartridge recycling. In the last year, because of the threat of losing Fair Parking, we have dabbled in many fundraisers - selling plants, pumpkins and indian corn, working a fair selling snow cones (very good!) & pop, selling bottled water, car washes and a few others. Most are too much effort for the return, or don't have a potential for repeating each year. The thing that concerns me about fundraising isn't how much fundraising you do - but how much goes back to directly help the boys. Our Troop has a bus, which costs alot to support. We have a treasurer who doesn't give us the entire story, and the past treasurer(s) didn't keep good records. The only money that goes into "scout accounts" is half the popcorn profit. Everything else goes to the troop as a whole, and we DO have lots of equipment and are able to keep up with replacement and repair as needed, mostly. But I can't help but feel that if the boys work so hard on the fundraisers, and we earn an estimated $7000 to $10,000 a year on various fundraisers - that the boys and families should NOT have to be paying $10 - $20 for each campout and for all of their own summer camp fees. The troop subsidizes SOME fees - like when there was a $10 fee for each boy to attend district camporee - the boys pd $10 for food, and the troop pd the camporee fee. But most campouts the families pay for splitting the cost of the entire weekend. I think more of the funds we raise should be credited directly to the boys accounts, rather than to the troop as a whole. I also have a feeling that lots of the money the boys earn is being stashed away to support the current bus and possibly to buy a new one in the near future. And as the treasurer is one of the people that thinks we should buy a new bus - she isn't very forthcoming with financial info. Part of the adult games left over from last years' turmoil within our troop. it's a difficult question, "how much is too much?" but my answer would have to be - what ever it takes to provide the boys a good program without burning them out.

bump!

having been there and done that - I do NOT envy you. however - the reason i stayed on the committee for two years is that i supported the interim SM and new SM who wanted to bring back boy-lead programming. In order to support the boys and the boy lead program - there needed to be adults ON THE COMMITTEE that were trained and voting in their best interests. Being on the committee does not mean that you can't participate in activities and teach the boys. But is does mean that you are not supposed to sign off on their advancements - because you might have to sit that same boys board of review. If you CC is power hungry, the troop might need some people to hold him in check. But if there are no others who feel the way you do about the program - it can be a lonely road. if you think you can effect a change - esp if the you think the SM could go for more boy lead if he had committee support - go for the committee. If you are alone and figure you just have to make the best of things the way they are - be an ASM and see if you can get the boys to 'take back' their own program bit by bit. Good luck! lauraT

What made me think of that one was that I saw a guy last summer at Napaown in the mess tent every afternoon(center pole)with his laptop - don't know if he was working (I think he was) or doing scout stuff. We have troopmaster on a laptop for the troop - but we've never taken it on any outings. However, I just got Troopmaster traveler for my palm pilot, so we might use that instead of the paper files on each scout's advancement needs for camp - However, last year it also stayed in my car/purse. But I do admit to prefering my digital camera to my bulky 35 MM and as it only uses special rechargable batteries, I charged it up at night in the nurse's station. We don't let the boys (or adults) bring electronic entertainments -except on the bus or in cars - but we have allowed handset radios (for communications), cameras, and we've used my palm pilot for badge requirements and star charts. Basically - if it enhances the program and doesn't distract from the experience and enjoyment of nature, it's ok.

Wow , Eisley - what a cool site! makes me want to dig out the canoe paddles & life jackets & go RIGHT NOW! Unfortunately, most of the rivers around us are frozen solid, so I guess I gotta wait.... Still, now is a good time to start planning those trips - right? ROOTBEER - What skill level are your boys? are you looking for river trips or beginner paddling on still water? If you are looking to teach skills - we did a "canoe olympics" weekend last year to hone manuvering and cooperation skills. I have a couple of "games" your boys might like. e- mail me if you are interested - tlaurat7@hotmail.com

Hi Hops_Scout! See, that I can understand - it makes sense to me to have one nighters sometimes during the school year - events, holidays, homework - it's like everybody wants a piece of your time. But when we have the opportunity - say on a school 3 day weekend - Columbus day, Teacher conference days, at spring break weekends and summers - Why not do SOME 2 nighters?

Hmmm.. I checked the book - it DOES say "Camp a TOTAL of 20 days and nights. Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched." It doesn't say it has to be with the troop or patrol - does it? what do you folks think? We have done alot of family camping - just the two of us - wonder if those nights count, too. in other areas of the badge - like the preparation - it DOES say to do it with your troop or patrol. Jon IS Star rank - he just passed his First Class BOR, and already has 11 MB's - 3 of which are Eagle req. (first aide, Cit in comm & swimming) our 1 nighters are NOT for religious reasons - just habit - we usually leave Sat AM and come back Sun @ noon. I agree with Ed - as long as we're hauling all that stuff - we might as well stay for two nights! As we just re-instated the patrol system this year - and had a SM changover, we have not yet done too many "patrol" outings. (1 lock-in in the church when other outings were cancelled) however, Jon is in the Patrol most likely to do patrol outings - they work together real well. I DID get the boys to camp out on a Friday night only - for Klondike - previously they had only gone for the day. We nixed the bus (no available driver) took 2 vans and loaded all the troop gear in my van on meeting night - including the sleds. Yeah, I had to cart the stuff with me everywhere for a few days - But Friday night we just tossed in personal gear & food and we were out of the parking lot in 20 min - it was amazing! 6 boys spent the night and about 6 more joined them Sat AM. Since that was our last campout - maybe there is some hope - Now that they've seen it's possible to get OUT quickly - maybe I can convince the boys to try it again.

My son is working on his Camping badge, and has all the requirements done - that is, except for the 20 nights. We have been with the troop for two years and he has gone on almost every outing and 2 summer camps -he's missed only 3 campouts - the first - a 30 mile bike trip in April 2001 (he hadn't been on his bike since the previous fall, and never been more than 10 miles - no WAY could he make 30 miles first hit in the spring!) The next was a canoe trip to Quetico - for the older boys, only. And one was a caving trip - he's claustrophobic. the problem is - our troop doesn't DO two night campouts - even the boys are dead set against changing - mostly from habit. They also don't do the recommended campout-a-month - though I'm sure the boys would go for that. Historically, they've always been a "high adventure" troop - but in the past 3 years, the majority of our boys are younger, not that interested in "high adventure", and/or not prepared yet for it. (Only 3 boys - 16 & 17 - went on the Quetico trip!) We will be getting in 5 new scouts (our biggest single influx in years) and the way i see it, we need to: 1 - have a program for first class/ first year 2 - get into at least SOME two night campouts 3 - have a program to work-up-to the more advanced level activities - not just jump into them. anybody have any ideas on how I can change some stick-in-the-mud minds? Both adult and boy?

What you might want to look into is something our district has recently started - a "Merit Badge Opportunity Days" they picked a church (latter day Saints) with good classroom setup, and arranged to teach badgework and advancement work in a classroom type setting, every other Saturday for 6 weeks on a Sat morning. Last year they did 5 "classes" 3 am and 2 afternoon - but this year they just did 3 in the morning. They got badge counselors to run the "classes" and offered whatever they could get counselors for. Sign up was in advance - this year they limited the Eagle Required Badges to those already 1st class and up. This year they also offered "fast start" rank advancement training - grouping the requirements into a class - knots and lashing, or first aide, for example. for the adults, who were "bussing" the kids and had to stay anyway - they offered Fast Start, YPT, SM/ASM training , Committee Challenge, Safe Swim and Safety Afloat and others. While the boys 'classes' ran all three saturdays - the leader classes were sometimes only 1 or 2 saturday sessions. It worked REALLY well, involved both leaders and youth at the same time. One of the neat things was getting back together with the boys at lunchtime and catching everybody up on what ALL of us were learning. The enthusiasm was great! I'm sure it took a great deal of organization, but it is becoming a standard event in our district, and they are now talking about doing TWO of these a year (spring and fall). it certainly got ALOT more of our leaders trained, as they were there with their boys, anyway. LauraT

In looking over stuff I came up with a question about the SM key award - Is this for the actual SM ONLY - or can it be earned by ASM's, too? I'm not really clear on that. As for Scot, we are looking at the Award of Merit - which, as BobWhite pointed out is often awarded yearly at a district dinner. Ours is in November - (which was mentioned by our District commisioner)and there's a liklihood that Scot may not be around that long. So I had to point out that the application only says that we must apply 30 days before we expect to present the award. Some people have a tough time breaking out of the "box" of established procedure. So I guess I'm gonna have to push a little for this - but I want him to see and know how much we appreciate him - while HE can enjoy it! Also, someone mentioned an 'Arrowhead' award? I can't seem to find anything on that. Any one know what it is or what it's requirements are? lauraT