LauraT7

you're on to something with the clear coat - We learned a couple of things in our years of derby cars.... mostly that POWER TOOLS are AWESOME! (and you guys have been holding out on us gals and not sharing! LOL!) My son built all his cars himself, except the ONE he built with my ex-husband. Dad would not let him use anything but hand tools - Dad did the big cuts and did not have the patience to 'do it right" - Dad then compounded it by screwing a whopping big weight on the bottom that rubbed the track and slowed the car. we had an adult division, too - so Mom built a car, too - for example and testing of technique - we would "try" something on "my" car or a chunk of wood, and when it was the way Jon wanted it, he would do it on his car. He did quite a bit of carving with the dremel and the car clamped in a vise, and with the electric sander. Jon became very proficcient with the tools at a young age - though he was never allowed to run them without safety equipment and an adult by his side. We did learn with the paint to do clear coats - start with color and then add clear for shine and depth. With stickers or decals - put them on and put some clear coats over them - makes 'em STAY on and look loads better! Nail polish is great for details. one tip for speed ... make sure the wheels are straight as can be, free spinning and not rubbing and de-burr the axels! sometimes your car runs better BACKWARDS than forwards! Sometimes I wish Boy Scouts did Derbies! that was FUN! And the upshot of all that derby work? When Jon was in 3rd grade, i bought an OLD (25 + yrs) camper and my son helped me replace most of the rotted plywood, rusty lift cables, new tires and wiring. he really made a difference. last year, jon was in 6th grade, & i remodeled my kitchen. Jon did most of the sanding and painting of the cabinets, while I refinished the doors (the chemicals I used to strip and bleach the wood I would not let Jon handle - it would burn skin right off) he also helped with the multiple poly coats and re-hanging of doors and cabinets,new hardware and new tracks for the drawers. REAL SKILLS - learned from building derby cars!

John - your answer made me laugh! yup, threatening the scouts with your "cure" for hypothermia just might do the trick! LOL! we have had the outside experts do the demos and go on the campouts - he was the one who came up with the disaster scenario. I think the problem might be that 1 - the boys EXPECTED to be in a cabin with a fireplace 2 - even when they were told the cabin was off-limits - they knew the 'safety net' was there and available - so they took it. 3 - that "nekked" scenario might prevent hypothermia (and create lots of laughs) - but the boys are also very leary of changing in front of each other - so they don't like to "peal down" even when it makes sense. ever read Gary Paulsen's "Hatchet" series? a great example written for boys of this age. - a boy has to survive in the canadian wilderness with only the clothes on his back and his hatchet. maybe we should have all the boys read them BEFORE such a trip? thanks for the smile, though - I'll keep your suggestions in mind!

i have not taken Wood Badge - i hope to do so this year. I have been with my son through scouts since Tigers, and have ALWAYS camped with my den / pack/ troop. Sometimes I am the only female - and I have worked hard to be part of the group so the men and boys will accept me. This includes sleeping by myself in a tent, far enough away from the boys to hear a yell, but not a whisper. The adults always camp a noticeable space from the boys. If I were to attend training and be excluded from the regular program for my gender, I would definately feel discriminated against and be very offended. why on earth would it be OK by BSA policies (and youth protection) for me to be the only female Adult on a campout with the youth, and sleep in my own tent at the same site, but NOT do so with all Adults????? That simply makes NO SENSE. If the majority of the group (district/ council) is of a religious persuasion that prohibits co-ed campsites - I hope that you make it common knowledge prior to the event, so that those who want the full experience of working with the entire patrol experience, can choose to train at another time or or with another group that does not impose it's religious restraints on others not of their beliefs.

PS - hops_scout - I went to college at SIU - Carbondale - are you anywhere near there? Winters are pretty mild down there - comparable to Kentucky - if you have a decent winter bag, dress properly, & change into dry clothes before bed, you'll probably be fine on your cot with your foam pad between you and the canvas cot. Everybody tells me i should be cold on my air mattress, for the same reason your cot should be cold - but as long as you have the good insulation immediately under you - you should be fine. I was.

Just came back from the 3rd winter campout since I started this post over a year ago - have tried and done some of the things suggested by all of you on this post .... we've used our new synthetic bags - they are rated for 15 - 20 below in temps down as low as 0, and colder with the wind chill. I use sheet liners in the summer in our regular bags - but those fleece blanket liners in the winter bags. I've found the easiest way to get into the bag is to step into (wear)the fleece liner - and then slip into my sleeping bag like an inchworm. because I NEED padding that no foam pad (even multiples of any kind)can supply - I put my cheapie foam pad ON TOP of my air matress. yes the Air mattres is COLD - but as I never get near it (foam between my bag and the cold air) I haven't been even chilly! I LOVE the way the hood of the bag keeps my little neck pillow from escaping! When it got REALLY REALLY cold - only my nose got a little cold - as I hate sleeping with something over my face - I draped a scarf over my face and went back to sleep. Our last campout, the boys were told "your plane just crashed, and you managed to save some gear before it fell over a cliff. You must make a shelter with what you have on hand (no tents) and you are above the treeline so there is nothing to build a fire with" (they did use stoves for cooking - we had some who needed their first class cooking requirements) Despite multiple training sessions with the boys, they are very resistant to proper gear and habits. Many came unprepared, even though we don't expect them to buy new equipment - there was equipment and gear made available to borrow and they were shown how to layer their bags to make them warmer, what to look for among what they had to dress warm, pack light, etc. One boy showed up in boat shoes! one brought two very light summer sleeping bags, insisted he needed only one and used the other to help build his patrols shelter, despite broad hints and outright warnings from the leaders. (of course, it got damp, and when he DID retrive it - it was COLD!) This same boy tossed aside his coat earlier - we found it when someone spilled dishwater on it! All of the boys were very resistant to changing their clothes before bed, and most did not change. Some changed only the outer layers (pointless) including my son - who can give a terrific lecture on the subject, but doesn't want to follow through! (luckily his patrol built a terrific shelter and he had a good bag to sleep in but was it WET when we got home!) Most would not even change their SOCKS when their feet got cold! 3 got so cold we had to let them in the cabin and start a fire to warm them. of these 3, one is a prior SPL, one a Star and only one was a new scout. We have done at least 2 seasons of winter camping, and lots of training on the subject - WITH examples and demonstrations since we've joined the troop - Why are these SAME boys so resistant to following sensible guidelines? i don't get it!

We don't always use permission slips - we probably should.... but when we do, we collect them at the time of the campout and have some extras there as well - We always meet at the church, and the parents drive, so we can catch at least one parent to sign if someone "forgot" We also have a website, & slips are posted there, but less than half our boys are 'connected'. Those of us who have ADD boys know to ask our boys for their permission slips, newsletters, etc. if a boy can't be responsible, his parents must be.

It is common knowledge that our current troop 159 was formerly Troop 1 in Woodstock Illinois - and was a practicing scout troop,sponsored by the same First United Methodist church as it is today, possibly prior to the scouting movement in 1910 - possibly as early as 1908. A 1940's interview with the first scoutmaster, George B Robinson (for the troop's 25th anniversary) says that he "applied for a charter in 1910" Unfortunately in 1915, our church was burned to the ground, and all records were lost. (except for an undated, un marked photo of the boys in uniform in front of the old church) The first official records we have are re-chartering documents, dated Feb 7, 1916, with G. B. Robinson as SM. G.B. Robinson later managed to help organize a council in our area in 1924, and later became a scout executive in another Illinois council - La Salle. Our troop history is: Troop 1 - no council - 1910 to 1916 Troop 1 - McHenry County council 1916 - 1930 Troop 52 - Beloit council 1930 - 1933 Troop 159 - Blackhawk council - 1934 - present Through all those years, even prior to the Baden-Powell scouting movement coming to America in 1910, we have been sponsored by the same First United Methodist Church of Woodstock, IL. My question is - Where would I look or write for information that might prove our existence BEFORE 1916? Who would have those records if we didn't have a council back then? any ideas on which direction I should take or where I should look?

having just come across some old historical info on our troop - much of it from that time and earlier - I wonder if the war effort had an effect on BSA - in that they may have extended time to finish ranks, or keep boys and men involved in supporting the war effort through scouting. all the references, charter papers and record and newspaper articles on our troop from that time show lots of work supporting the country and the community for the war. maybe they let those boys who were otherwise occupied, finish up their scouting awards when they had time?

theres a link on one of the other Scouter Forums that has the video for about $25 - check it out

our scoutmaster "retired" - to start a Venture crew with our charter org! but - he still left his SM position and he had done a great job for the boys - so we had a swearing in for the acting SM - and a few weeks later at a Court of Honor, (after his special order gift had come in) we honored our old SM by presenting him with a custom engraved canoe paddle from all the boys. As he is an avid canoist - and taught all our boys, this was an especially touching tribute to him. our temp (Interim? acting?) SM is now going out and we have a new permanent SM - who will be sworn in when we re-charter in Jan. We will come up with some kind of ceremony for both men who give so much to the boys.

ok - here's a new one - when my son and I joined our troop we were given by the troop the following patches for our uniforms (and all the boys/leaders are given same)- *Red City and State arches (shown on the uniform sheet above the council patch) *Troop numbers *a black 80 yr patch. (we had council patches from our cub days) After wearing these for 2 yrs, (along with the rest of the troop)I was just told by our COR / Unit commissioner that wearing both the city and state patches WITH the council patch is wrong - it was a habit started by an old SM that dis-associated the troop from the district and ran it independantly. She said that showing both on the uniform guide was just for placemnet, not that they were both to be worn. It's kind of a shame, as going places, many people have commented on how cool it was to show the city and state our troop was from - as councils cover huge areas. I have never before heard that wearing BOTH city/state and council patches was wrong, and can't find it in any literature I have. anybody ever see /hear of this anywhere?

Article of interest.... i found this when searching for the movie.... http://www.progressivedairy-hay.com/pub/dairy%20archive/September%202000pd/Follow%20Me.htm thought the rest of you would enjoy it, too.

Hmmmm..... the jewlery - body piercing - could be handled simply - isn't there a uniform policy or rules against wearing jewlery other than what is part of the uniform? Certainly, I haven't seen any nose rings in the scout catalogue..... ;-) I don't see any problem with requiring boys to remove distracting paraphanailia as part of a uniform requirement while on troop activities. As a woman with pierced ears, I always wear either simple posts when camping - for safety and simplicity! And with my uniform at meetings and events, I wear either the posts or ones with the BSA logo. Tatoos are more difficult - as they can't be removed temporarily. that permanence makes a statement in itself about the person. We have a scoutmaster, Eagle Scout who has some nice tattoos - including an indian/eagle morph kind of one that I always assumed (but never asked) had something to do with his personal expression of his Eagle/Order of the Arrow involvement. He has others - and the good taste or respect of the uniform - which are inobtrusively placed to be covered by his summer scout uniform - under short sleeves and knee socks, except one, I think, on a forearm. While the boys are interested and ask him about them sometimes, they have never been an issue with us. Don't kids have to be a certain age to get a tattoo? 16? 18? Otherwise the parents must have agreed to it... I think if a boy showed up with a swastika, however, I would question his scout spirit and his understanding of the symbol he permanently displays vs. His understanding of scouting. Obviously one or the other is a lie, and he's not serious about scouting. A boy who says he is on the Eagle trail, yet displays a hate symbol (like a swastika) is not living the scout oath and law. I would have a hard time advancing that boy. I think we have to accept, also - that not every boy IS serious about scouting. Some join just for the "club" and activities, some really "get" the program. Scouting is not a factory for creating Eagle scouts, or even advancing in rank - being a higher ranking scout should have more meaning than that! in ALL aspect of a boy's life!

I, too, had noticed his absence, though I hadn't put a date to it.... but I've also noticed less activity on the board in general recently - I just figured everyone's spending their time shopping on e-bay for Christmas instead of talking! LOL! I do hope that's what keeping BobWhite away and not the hecklers or illness.... While BSA offers alot of leeway for individualism and self expression in it's program, I do believe that if we run up against a problem, it's best to go "back to the book" to work things out. Afer all, they've had 90 + yrs to figure things out! and only if that doesn't work, THEN try something else. From what I have seen on this board and elsewhere most problems we encounter with our troops seem to come from getting away from the program or because of personality differences! So give the guy a break, huh? he's only trying to do "by the book" what we all are trying to do - give the boys a wonderful opportunity for fun and learning.

all our patrols are mixed age/rank/ grade / interest. 3 reg patrols and one "older scout" patrol. One of the regular patrols only has 3 members, because our current SPL and ASPL came from that patrol. We are looking at taking our "Viking" (older scout)patrol - (which consisits currently of two 16 almost 17 yr old scouts - both life and working on Eagle)and making it a real "venture" patrol. We have a number of boys who are 1st class & star rank, age 13 - barely 15, including a star who is 13, who are just chafing at the bit to do more high adventure things, and who are really at odds with the boys who are below them in interest and rank. We have made the announcement that if they are 13 and above first class, & wish to move up to Viking (venture patrol) to speak to the SM. One boy, (our 13 yr old Star - very determined to push his way through) asked about "positions of responsibility" - he wanted to know if he went into venture, could he still be patrol leader of the other patrol? I don't see how that can work. if enough boys want to move into Venture only 2 can be PL and APL. There are other positions in the troop - but right now we have a glut of older boys and apparently, not enough jobs to go around that really mean anything. Also - there is a line in the SM handbook - forgive me if I misquote, but something like "other POR's may be approved by the SM" And I remember some discussion about counting APL - IF they had specific responsibilities separate of just backing up the PL? how do we get boys to go into the Veture patrol, AND get them the positions they need - WITHOUT ending up with that patrol running the whole troop? We are a small troop of 18 - 20 boys, (which may get smaller soon - we have two families which may move soon) We want to give the boys who are ready for it a chance to do some real patrol work and the high adventure trips they crave - WITHOUT forcing the younger, less skilled scouts to go along and be pushed to do stuff they're not ready or interested in doing yet.

Cool idea - We are getting new flags from our charter organization - they're going to be dedicated on Scout Sunday..... I think I'll suggest this to our PLC......

WOW! What a great list! that should keep me occupied this winter! I'll certainly call around and see what I can find out - most of the cities/ locations I recognise, or can at least find - The Grotto in Carbondale, I recognise, as I went to college in Carbondale - Little Egypt, Fat Man's Squeeze, and the Shawnee National Forest, while a few hours away, have alot to offer a scout troop. the others are closer - Thank you SO MUCH! the boys will be very happy!

Iwouldnt try Thompsons - it's meant for wood, not fabric and IF it sealed, I doubt it woul have the flexibility needed in a fabric water repellant. I think you'd end up with it flaking off and making a huge mess - that is, assuming you didn't ruin your tent! I was always told that the propellant in most aeresol cans can break down the water repellant on tents - the old style canvas tents that I grew up in. One layer canvas tents were only "waterproof" if you didn't touch the canvas when wet. even the oils in your skin could break down the water repellant. Since the fabric was still "breathable" if your stuff was leaning on the tent wall, water would seep through instead of run off. So many of the new, double layer nylon(?) light fabric tents are NOT waterproofed with waterproofing as I knew it - they are actually coated with a thin layer of plastic type stuff - thats why they have two layers - the inside layer breathes - which the outer layer can't do. It would probably take direct spraying with an aresol can (and time) to damage the waterproofing on a newer style tent - but it's just good practice to teach the boys to keep the cans away. On a side note, I have an old (1976) pop up camper with the original canvas. when I got it 5 yrs ago, it had been owned by a smoker - and we have allergies. in addition to cleaning it and getting new cushions and drapes, I completely soaked the canvas in Febreeze a couple of times, let it dry and then used some waterproofing that came IN AN AERESOL CAN to re- coat the canvas. I used two coats and have been in some real steady downpours and windy rainstorms and have never gotten wet. (and haven't re- waterproofed the canvas again after that, either)

ok - so we've been caving in our troop for years and doing it WRONG and in an unsafe manner. We do NOT have the people who ARE or are likely to GET trained properly. In actuality - this is reasonable as we don't live in an area where there are caves or where caving is popular. And after doing REAL caving, however wrong, our boys would find a "walking tour" of a cave extremely boring SO.... Are there places to go in the midwest where there are experienced and trained guides that will take a group in and teach them REAL caving? We are in northern Illinois, near Rockford - and driving distance is an issue for a weekend trip. If anyone has any suggestions, our boys would be extremely grateful!

our troop helps each year the weekend after thanksgiving with cleaning and decorating, inside and out, the church that is our charter organization. the church also owns a couple of houses on the grounds that are rented, usually to elderly members - the boys do outdoor work and put up outdoor deocorations for them, too.

WE are re-instating the patrol method in our troop - after being an adult-run troop for a few generations of scouts! It is surprising the resistance we get to some things _ I expected resistance from certain adults, but not from the boys! They haven't been taught to plan and use patrols - and often want to do what they ALWAYS did. I see alot of enthusiasm for breaking into patrols, cooking and camping in patrols, but many still look to the adults for decisions, and unfortunately, we still have adults who are more than willing to take over from them. But we are making inroads. we have a new SPL who is REALLY taking the bull by the horns, and a few adults who are willing to stand BEHIND the boys, not take over for them. It's an uphill battle - but we are making progress!

On the issue of advancements - if a boy hasn't earned it, he doesn't get it - BUT - in Cubs, esp Tigers, Bears, younger ones - you can prevent the dissapointment of these boys by having your advancement coordinator go over all the boys records early on, BEFORE a week or two before the pack night and check with the den leader or Mom and Dad to make sure Johnny knows he is not getting the award, but he COULD, if he did the requirements. This isn't such an issue in Boy Scouts - as the boys are starting to be responsible for themselves and advance at different paces - But in cubs, especially the younger ones- it really hurts to not get the awards the others get - especially if you're the ONLY one to miss out. As for the mom who doesn't want to pay - I don't know the rest of the story - but there may be a financial hardship there that YOU don't see. The new uniforms etc may be all that they budgeted for, and the dues have caught her unprepared. they may have been a gift from Grandma or someone else. Or she may not see the value in dues - maybe someone needs to show her exactly what the dues cover. Or she may just not want to pay. have you spoken to her privately? is there anyone that knows her personally that might be able to talk to her? Cornering her at a meeting may or may not be the right approach. If there IS a problem, it may be hard for her to talk about it. We have a family in our troop that is financially tight. They need to know in advance the cost of a trip, because even $10 ea, for two boys - is something that has to be budgeted out of their paychecks. They are more than willing to pay, but they need advance notice. To help them out, we gave the boys uniform shirts and a troop T-shirt out of the troop closet, and when they go to camp, we will give them other needed uniform pieces. Camp for 2 boys could be difficult for them (they moved here just after camp last summer) So we had 2 ASM's sit down with Mom, Dad and the boys at a summer picnic, and tell them that we would help all we could, but the boys would have to "earn" their way, too. Luckily, this family has a great work ethic - the boys are very active and volunteer for everything! they will have no problem getting anywhere they want to go! Our council offers scholarships to camp, and by then, the boys should have enough in their 'boy accounts' to cover the other half & go! Families like this, of course, make it easy to help them. it doesn't hurt that their Dad and Mom have volunteeered to help in whatever way their skills and time will allow.

I see service stars in the Scout catalogue, and some of the boys in our troop wear them from their cub days, some do not. Are they "awarded"? is this something that is usually done by the troop / pack? If your troop or pack has not done this, can you just order the pins on your own and wear them? My son has been in since Tigers and is now in 7th grade - I had year pins as a girl scout and was (and AM!) very proud of my 10 and 15 yr pins - I think kids (& adults) should be recognised for the time they stick with the program - even if their troop doesn't.

A good point Dan - that hands up is the best thing - teach it early, use it often, and it WILL work! However, I do have to say that I envy you men your deep voices in these situations. A Dad with a deep voice can simply say "Boys, NOW!" in a slightly raised tone of voice and get immediate action - a soft-spoken man or especially a woman, just sounds whiney or out-of control if they "yell". Why IS that? My Dad NEVER yelled. but he would get "that tone" and we would all jump like army privates! I'm sure we all remember "that tone" from someone in your youth! LOL! Our group is pretty good with using the sign in meetings and at close range - but outdoors - sound gets lost, muffled. I like the clapping idea - but I don't think it would carry well outside. I have one of those triangle dinner bells, I've thought of taking it along to troop outings - still thinking about it. It hangs usually by my back door - I ring it to call my son in from wherever he is in the neighborhood - he can usually hear it, better than my voice - at least 3-4 houses away, as long as he is outside - and it saves my voice!

we don't have much of a problem with this, as our standard has always been to wear uniforms - even when our troop was not run by BSA methods - But our troop does not require full uniforms - just uniform shirts. If a boy shows up at a meeting not in uniform, he usually has a reason - just returned from a campout and Mom hasn't washed it yet, he had a school, band, sports or other activity prior to meeting - we don't make much of it, if it is a seldom thing. Most of our boys wear their uniform to all meetings - maybe one or two will show up once in awhile NOT in uniform. When we go on trips, for some reason, we have MORE boys who don't want to wear their uniforms - for some reason we had a couple of boys who didn't want to look "un-cool" by wearing a uniform shirt in public. (though when they are traveling in 50 yr old, big tan and rusty bus with BSA TROOP 159 emblazoned on the side - this logic that the uniforms are "uncool" escapes me...) We established a rule that while traveling all boys and adults MUST wear a uniform shirt - if they show up without it they have 3 choices - 1.go home and get it 2.wear one from the troops "retired shirt" collection 3. stay home EVen I have been sent home to get my shirt by the SM! (on a winter day outing when it couldn't be seen anyway!) but i fully agreed with the logic of it, and have never not worn it again!