LauraT7

Laurie - I'm a little overweight, too - and no one would call the uniforms flattering, but if you've ever been to a scout roundtable or adult training session - you would get an eyeful of the typical male scout leader - waistband of the scout pants lost low under a belly where the shirt buttons are straining to meet the buttonholes. the thread they use to sew those BSA uniforms rarely breaks - it's usually the fabric that gives up the fight first! however - you have a good point - if you are female and can wear the male shirt - being able to pass it on to the troop uniform closet is a benefit - esp since many of the larger sizes are seldom available in a uniform closet. I know - I've been looking for a pair of size 14/16 pants for my son - and all we have are 8's and 10's. We have a couple of bigger ( football sized) boys who could REALLY use bigger shirts - yet their folks won't spring for them and the troop uniform box again, has nothing but small sizes. But to Charity - i would say, in addition to providing a good example to the boys by wearing your uniform shirt with pride - you also identify yourself to the boys as being an essential part of the TEAM. You aren't 'just helping out' - ALL the adults that volunteer are necessary to the troops success - Where would the troop be without an Advancement Chair or a Treasurer? no awards and no activities? What message are you sending to the boys by making so little of your contribution to their troop? if you see your support role as so unimportant, and only the SM and ASM's as "important", the boys might see THEIR role as unimportant unless they are Pl or SPL - when EVERYONE on the team matters. Wearing the uniform AND YOUR ADVANCEMENT CHAIR PATCH - and a name tag, if possible - makes it easier for parents and new scouts to know who you are and what your job is. In many of our troops, we are so familiar with the faces and names, we forget that parents don't always know or understand who has what position. For the newer kids, it's worse - they often don't know the difference between the SM and an ASM and a Committte member - all the adults kind of blur together until they've been with the troop long enough to sort them out. With adults on the committee, I've seen boys take a year or more to sort them out - longer if the adult is not really active.

leadership positions can be difficult to get if you are in a troop that has alot of boys that need them. we are at that point now - over half our boys NEED POR's to advance to the next rank, and there aren't that many available. sure, you can make them all Instructors or Den cheifs (and in the case of Den Cheifs and working parents, somehow they've got to GET TO the Den meetings, too!) But some are just not cut out to guide or teach younger boys. I think that is why it is left to SM discretion to 'create' PORS in some cases. We've always elected all positions except assistants - SPL picks his assistant, and in patrols, the runner-up is assistant. but since APL is not a POR - no one really wants it anyway. My son wanted to be PL last time around - and ended up being APL, because his buddies didn't show up to vote for him on election night. (in a patrol of 5 - 2 no-shows are drastic!) He's now spent 6 months as 1st class, had all his requirements done the first month for Star - except the POR. He asked to be an instructor - but we have never had instuctors before - so there is no one in the troop to show him what to do, and the one campout the NSP had - was done last minute and no one bothered to tell him about it. this time around, I hear our new SM is going to assign troop positions - SPL and PL's will be elected, but the other troop positions will be appointed. this time, Jon is being a little smarter - he has asked to be Librarian,(which he really doesn't particularly want) and will also run for PL of his patrol. Hopefully, his friends will show up and vote for him this time! but since so many of these elections ARE affected by popularity, rather than by need or ability - I think it's a shame a kid can be held back in advancement simply because he's not popular or because there aren't enough positions to go around.

thanks for the input, folks! and yes, Mark, I DO have "some Mom!" I was very lucky to have been raised by parents who BOTH supported me in my scouting experiences as a kid (My Mom AND Dad were co-leaders of my Girl Scout Troop) - and who continued to support my son and myself when we both got involved in Cub Scouts and then, Boy Scouts. When my Dad died and the church asked what we would like done with the money given, my Mom liked my suggestion of giving it to Mike's project rather than have it dissappear into some general fund or have it go towards something mundane like hymnals or church accessories. Our church has a lovely oak grove, which is the setting for outdoor services all summer - and the oak grove has been the recipient of many Eagle projects - a stone altar, a deck for the instrumentalists, a storage shed for chairs, electrical, lighting and outdoor sound system wiring, a gazebo, playground equipment for the younger children, gardens, landscaping and paths thru the woods - and now, a muddy drainage ditch has been transformed into a small retention pond with a waterfall. My Dad loved the outdoor services, and it's nice to think that somehow, he had a part in making it an even nicer place.

i like the idea of having the rank above make the awards to the next lower rank - that's a good one i will have to suggest to our SPL. We have a number of computer-literate boys in our troop - at least, some who understand Power Point - I bet they could come up with a good presentation using all the photos we've taken and perhaps some music, too - I'd like to see the boys do more - skits, music, something more entertaining than a skit worked out just before the COH starts. Perhaps have then show or tell about a badge they've worked on together? have to think about that one.... it has possibilities...

ok - here's one i love - but i swear there is another verse to it - must be, as it's supposed to be a canadian voyagers song, and they went on and on... My heart has but one home, From which I'll never roam, Land of true happiness, Canadian wilderness. The call of the lonely loon, coyotes howlin' at the moon, wind whispering thru the trees, thats the canadian breeze, Smoke rising from the fire, up thru the trees in a stately spire, sun goes down,the evening glows, through the trees the north wind blows. My heart has but one home, From which I'll never roam, Land of true happiness, Canadian wilderness.

Oh - I like the way you think! Can i keep going from where you left off? i would try to include Surprises and challenges along the trail - a log or rope bridge across a creek, gully or marshy area. (built by scouts, of course) Maybe a crossing where they had to wade.... perhaps a lashed lookout tower to climb? to me and my son - no summer camp and many weekend programs are not as fun if they don't include water - REAL water - not a chlorinated pool. with fish and frogs and critters in it. Now, if that trial went along a river or a lake - preferably in Wisconsin where most water is sand-bottomed and great for a cooling swim or wading for hot, tired feet - then perhaps the boys could hike up the trail, and canoe back. Better still, if there were loops and additional trails that could be done on a bike - maybe crossing the footpaths, or joining the hiking trails at the campsites, that would be great, too. laura

We have many adults in our troop who really push minimal camping and leave-no trace. I agree with the intent - but young boys want the romance of facing things on their own - at least PRETENDING that they are facing the wilds on their own! and building a fire against the elements is a part of that romance... although our boys all know how to build a fire - they have done most of their cooking over a stove - and do not plan the time, nor have the patience to cook over a fire. Most of our campouts are so jam packed with activity - they simply do not have time to hang around camp tending a fire and slow cooking things. Still, when they planned a great campout last winter - where they built their own shelters and decided to use stoves only, no fires - they learned quickly - that fire is not only heat - it is entertainment! When dark falls at 5:00, and there is nothing to do in the cold dark after supper but go crawl into your sleeping bag to keep warm - it makes for a L-o-n-g night!

In our troop, it seems that the Advancement chair and the adults have always run the quarterly court of honors. the boys may do skits, or present special awards sometimes - but mostly, they are a litany of talk - "Advancing to the rank of Tenderfoot are Bobby, joe, Tim and fred" they come up front, get their pins & patches and Mom pins it on, everyone claps ans they sit down. The next rank is announced. "Advancing to the rank of Second class are john, greg, luke Nathan and jeremy" - same scene. Then they go through each camp or activity and who attended and pass out patches and attendance cards for each activity. Lastly they call each boy up and list the badges he's earned and pass them out. Broken up only by a speech or two by an adult, or a patrol skit (usually poorly prepared the week before) Everyone hops up and down a dozen times, it takes forever, and no one pays attention to who earned what or went where - because it's so long and B-O-R-I-N-G. Afterwards, parents mill around and visit and everyone eats juice and drinks cookies. Oh - I'm sorry - even telling about it is boring... I think this is a hangover from the Dad -run history of our troop - that and a silly notion that these Badges and Awards are somehow a surprise to the boys - kind of like getting a prize or a recognition - but THEY earned them, so they DO know what they are getting. Mostly, I think it's because we have one adult who loves to stand up in front of the crowd, and run the show - he usually runs these things, and is now our Advancement chair. Our best one (and longest) is always in August - it is a family picnic, outdoors in a park, sometimes with a campfire, sometimes not. It's long because it usually covers Feb or March thru summer camp, and has the most potential for earning badges and rank advancements. but it's STILL boring. PLEASE tell me this is not typical? What does your troop do to keep COH interesting? Do you give out rank advancements as they are earned? do you then just mention them at COH or what? do you save badges and advancements, summer camp patches and campout attendance cards until COH's? how do you handle giving out awards, by group or individually? what do you do to make the COH's move along and stay interesting? I'm sure the boys are supposed to participate - so what do they do?

sometimes i think our troop has MANY programs - there's MY program - which sorta goes along with their program - and then theres HER program, and HIS program - and hey - what about the BOY's program? oh, yeah. that's what we're here for - right? Well we finally have a SM who is doggedly backing the boys and pushing the committee back in their proper place. right now, it seems to be his primary job to mediate between the committee who wants to control everything like they used to - and the boys, some of which are SLOWLY taking ownership back of THEIR troop. Sadly, some are just too young and immature - they don't WANT to lead - they just want to have fun and goof off. We had election nominations last night, and the only nominees for SPL that accepted were the current SPL (this would be his third, non-consecutive term) and a boy who seldom makes meetings or outings and didn't even show up last night in a troop t-shirt, much less his uniform. (Plus - he was one of the instigators in our hazing incident at camp last summer.) however, last saturday - under the leadership of the SPL and the support of the SM - we had our first ever yearly planning meeting where SOME of the boys came PREPARED! together - they decided to adopt a uniform policy. they brought information on things they wanted to do - and planned them. they decided to initiate 'family outings' every other month - where parents and siblings are invited to join outings. Best of all - in memory of our friend and ASM Scot Mansfield - who passed away this summer - the PLC proposed an annual "Honor campout' each year, funded by camperships given to the troop in Scot's memory. the Honor Campout will be all FUN, the adults will cook for the boys - and in order to attend each boy must earn points and pass the requirements EACH YEAR. Requirement 1: know your knots, WITHOUT the book - Square knot, clove hitch, bowline and double half hitch. (Scot loved lashing and pioneeering) requirement 2: complete any two requirements of the Astronomy Badge (Scot always did our star hikes and counseled Astronomy) Requirement 3: Serve your faith with at least 2 hrs of service to your church or our CO church a year or earn your faith's religious emblem. (Scot was an active member of our CO church and often shared Native American hymns and stories) REq 4: SHOW scout spirit - points are earned by showing spirit, participation and living the Scout Law and Oath. participate in meetings and events, and call your SM, ASM or patrol leader if you cannot attend a meeting or are going to be late Req 5: Uniform policy - points given for proper uniforming according to new policy - incuding patches sewn on correctly and uniform in good repair. Req 6: Show rank advancement within the year, or provide a special service or leadership to the troop. This can include attending JLT, BSA lifeguard, or other training in leadership or service. _________ I think its a great plan - one that shows they DO want the program as promised - if only WE, as adults can SUPPORT THEM in achieving it, and not drown their ideas in trying to make it OUR game instead of theirs. _________ that is very hard to do - as i was reminded once again by attending part of our committee meeting Monday nite - WHY I wanted OUT of the committee. - once again, the committee wanted to pick apart and re-arrange and veto the plans the boys had made for the year. I left after reporting my part. I've had enough of fighting with the committe. I think if I support the BOYS - in accomplishing the program THE BOYs choose - eventually the committee will just have to give in. After all - they aren't there for program time, they don't go on campouts, anyway.

My Mom and I have been invited to the Eagle Court of Honor of a Boy in my son's troop. The COH is at his church, where his project was done and where we are members, also. I was invited because i am an active leader in the troop and my son worked on this boy's Eagle project, though i have not worked with the boy myself - he was pretty much done by the time I became active. My Mom was invited because she directed monetary gifts given to our church at my Dad's funeral toward his Eagle project (a waterfall, landscaping and retention pond on the church grounds) I suspect that the majority of the project was funded by these gifts - funding Eagle projects can be tough. the project was finished last fall - he actually got his Eagle approved last spring, but because of other commitments, they were not able to do the COH until now. Neither of us know the boy real well, though his younger brother is in my son's grade (8th) and they belong to our church - the father is our troop CC, I've been on the committee and I'm now a ASM, so we know the family. Anyway, we have never been to an Eagle court of Honor - the troop's last Eagle was awarded before we joined the troop. is it customary to give the Eagle a gift? a remembrance of his acheivement? a card or what? If gifts ARE appropriate, any suggestions?

I came up through girl Scouts - though I am now a Boy Scout leader - because I have a son and not a daughter. I had 'normal' sized troops through Jr. high - 20 or more girls. My mom lead Jr's - but i went into a troop in another area in Cadettes, and another leader - my mom worked on district stuff while i was in jr. high. In high School, we didn't have enough leaders, lots of girls had dropped out - so my mom AND DAD became co-leaders of our small troop. we had 7 - 9 girls most of the time. for us, because of the leadership we had, this actually worked very well - we got to go more places and were able to plan better with the small group. Of course, we didn't have huge amounts of funds - Girl scouts limited fundraising anyway - even back then. We became skilled at finding trips and things that we could sign up as a group - we often joined another troop, or attended council events as a troop - for activities. One benefit of a small group is that those that DO stay and participate, usually become very close and very dedicated. our Boy scout troop has varied from 14 boys to 24 in the three years we have belonged to it. The larger the number, the lower our attendance is at some events. lack of interest, conflicting schedules, different priorities all contribute to atendance. but when we had a amaller group - in both boy scouts ans Girl scouts - it seemed we had more events in which EVERYONE showed up.

Someone recently wrote me asking if I ever found an answer to a request for plans for patrol boxes - since many troops use them, i thought i would post the ones I found here - incase anyone else was interested - We were looking at building or buying chuck boxes, and I pulled anything remotely useful. My son and i like to build stuff, and with that in mind, I pulled ideas from both pre-made plastic units and hand built plans. We never did actually get new boxes, and i think we are going toward using rubbermade totes or something, as every campout with us has different equipment needs. One thing i would NOT suggest, which is what we have - a wooden box built to fit inside a BSA (old) issued canvas pack with shoulder straps - these are approx 2' tall, 18" wide and about 10" deep - a plastic cutting board is the 'lid' - they are too awkward & heavy for the younger boys to carry by themselves, and not designed to be carried by two. they were originally designed at time ( 1970's - 80's) when our troop did ALOT of canoeing - and for that, they are nice - as they can be portaged by 1 large boy or adult, but the majority of time they would ride in the canoe, strapped to a brace by the pack straps. Weight was not a big issue, as they weren't carried a long way. they did not hold food - only equipment. They make good 'camp chairs' but have no legs, so you have to stand on your head to dig things out of the bottom of the tall box. http://www.blueskykitchen.com/Grubby%20One%20chuck%20box%20brochure.html this one is particularly nice, as it's plans are done on Excel and you can adjust the compartments to your equipment http://www.troop168.net/forms/patrolboxC.htm A commonly used style http://members.aol.com/lwjones/table.htm I actually found these at Sam's Club and once online somewhere - for about $40 - plastic and pre-made http://www.domsoutdoor.com/cgi-bin/cgiitmls?m=ThisP&p=1.012886&l=2#Order another plastic one http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=77355 This one was my personal favorite, an upright design - http://www.angen.net/~pack21/T21_Kitchen_Box.html there are some other sites - and may be new ones since my search - look for "camp kitchens", "chuck boxes" "patrol boxes" - lots of them will lead you to kitchen utensils and equipment - it takes awhile to sift through them all. We found that our troop needs the 'big boxes' for car camping and camporees, but really just needs to pack individual equipment for most of our trips. the boys don't like hauling all that junk. We don't have a trailer, and don't always use our troop bus ( hard to find drivers) so with all the packing and unpacking, they'd rather take individual items as needed. but they are also learning that this means that sometimes, something important gets 'left behind'. it's all a learning process! Good luck!

Well, here's the whole story - As I said, i was not at the COH, as my back was so bad i was snapping at everyone - I just wanted to be with my chiro and my ice pack. i guess I'm a little testy' when my back hurts... by the time the CC called me back, I had seen my Chiropracter & cooled my jets some.... It seems that the new ADV Coord. thought that by sending in the advancement records, that the advancement paperwork also ordered the badges. But there was a separate form for ordering badges that he did not send in. when he called to check on status of our 'order' because he hadn't received the badges, he found out his error - too late to get them in time for the COH. Part of this is because he doesn't want to have the old ADV coord looking over his shoulder - he's kind of defensive, wants to control things kind of personality, and wants to do things HIS way - even if someone else has a good method to share. (understandable in a way, but our prior Adv C is a great, low-key guy. He would be extreemely helpful, not over bearing, a team player and in every way, the kind of adult we all wish we had whole troops of. he would have walked through all this stuff with the new guy, if he had been allowed to. I know he offered.) Anyway, so he goofed on getting a form in on time and cut the wire too close in the first place, or he would have had time to correct the mistake. he did apologize to all the scouts and parents at the COH for his mistake. since i wasn't there, and my son is not good at repeating details - i didn't hear about that part. the badges should all be in by our next Monday meeting, Sept 9. _________________ as for the 'stockpile' of badges - I didn't mean to give the impression that we had a large stockpile - our troop has been around, in the same location and charter org for almost 90 years. We have a little of EVERYTHING, somewhere! LOL! I'm sure the few badges we have IN the adv box are from boys that dropped out or things that were mis-ordered, etc. We certainly don't have lots of badge on hand - just a handful.

Actually, the license plate came ahead of the name - it's easy to remember..... the number was assigned by the state of illinois.... But hey, if any of you are ever in Blackhawk Council, and see a white van with that license plate - flag me down and say hello!

My son was delighted with this month's Boy's Life - he loves all of them anyway, and reads them cover to cover. but this month's feature story is about a former scout who makes backpacks and who made his FIRST backpack as a scout years ago. it shows that there IS some interest and usefullness in having a sewing badge at least available to the boys. there is also a small page on basic hand sewing skills - how to hem, stitch a seam and sew a button. It's a great article - if your family doesn't get Boy's Life (if you are one of many dedicated scouters without a boy currently in a troop) you might want to check the issue out at your local library! laura

perhap you should include a 'job description' and a 'chain of command' for advancement and badge work - such as - -Who is the advancement chair and what is their job, -What a badge counselor is and how to find one, and - -WHY we use badge counselor instead of having leaders or parent sign off -what leaders and Sr. boys can sign off on advancements in your troop. -what committee members might make up a board of review - (and why committe members aren't supposed to sign off on advancements, and why SM's and ASM don't sit boards of review) -what is the difference between Rank Advancement and Merit badges -an explaination that while some badges lend themselves to group work - such as 'Swimming' at Summer camp - others are intended to be worked on individually - like "Personal Management" -a brief explaination of BSA Youth Protection policies (that no boy should be alone with an adult, etc). -how to 'keep their eyes open' for advancement opportunities - encourage the family and boys to familiarize themselves with the requirements, so that they can make use of local resources for badge work - Give a list of commonly known local resources -for example, we have a Challenger learning /space center in our town that has a BSA badge counselor on staff who will work with boys in a group class or individually. there are librarians - past Eagle scouts in our library that counsel the citizenship badges and other research-type badges. the library also has contour maps, and merit badge books. (check to make sure they are current, first) Fire dept will sometime do "First Aid", and for advancement work and badge work - School efforts can count if the boy shows the appropriate teacher the requirement and has the teacher sign a note or otherwise show mastery of a subject ( for example - our 6th grade, in-school Drug Awareness (DARE)program covers an advancement requirement, our 7th graders all earn Red Cross CPR cards in health class, etc. show completion of the coursework, and a troop leader will sign off the requirement) Let the parents know if your area does any MB colleges, or what they can work on at summer camp. -let them know, also, that if they have a 'special needs' child, that after completing all other requirements for a rank or Eagle required Merit Badge, that there IS a process by which the remaining requirements can be adjusted for their physically or mentally disabled child. The substitute requirements, however, will have to be of equal difficulty, and have to be approved at the district (I think?) and council (?) level. (check on that - i am looking into it for a boy in our troop, as well) Also, since ADD and other learning disabilities are a special (and common!) thing nowadays - let the parents know that if because of that, if a boy needs an extra nudge or reminder, that if the parents keep the troop informed, and work WITH the leaders to help the boys advance, that the troop is willing to work with them too. some boys simply are not ready to jump from cubs and grade school. where everything is directed for them, and they do need a boost from the adults to get them on the path of self-direction, and self-monitoring. and some take longer than others to learn this.

I think i get the gist of this - but I sometimes need things spelled out in one-syllable sentences.... can someone filter out the PR-speak for me? 1. - Does this mean that if a scout or scout leader gets his Red cross lifeguard certification, then he is also recognised as being a BSA life guard for the purposes of Safety Afloat and Safe Swim requirements? 2.- or does it just mean that if you take the BSA lifeguard training (which I think is a bit more extensive than the red cross requirements) then Red cross recognises you as a RC certified Lifeguard? and allows BSA to act as it's certified instructors? 3. -or both? please 'splain it to me? laura

Hi! and WELCOME! We would LOVE to have more 'scouts' on this board! and as HopsScout mentioned, we would love to see you on the MSN board / chat as well. the MSN board is not as active as this one, and IS commercially sponsored by MSN - so please do use caution - but you will see many of the same people in both places, because they have chat capabilities this board doesn't have. the complement each other. As a scout leader and parent of a 13 yr old 'almost' Star - i am always interested in the opinions and views from your side of the program. Hops has been very active here, and his comments always provide great thought provoking perspectives for me. My son talks to me, of course, but he is MY kid, and we often think alike - so it's nice to hear an honest opinion from someone NOT in the center of our troop. Don't ever be afraid of 'offending' someone by an 'honest' answer - after all, every adult here is in scouting primarily because of the boys, and second, because WE have a good time, too! We need to learn from YOU! Laura

purpose of knots? In the days in which those requirement were put into the program, those knots had a very GOOD purpose - which is why I remember and have TRULY MASTERED them - from my days as a Girl Scout - those knots were USED on every campout, with the kind of tents and equipment we had. And a Bowline ALWAYS has a purpose - someday, almost everyone will have need to tie a knot that will not slip and untie - and a Bowline is IT. Do you want to be looking for a book for a 'refresher' when one of your kids is slipping down the side of a ravine? or would you rather just wait for the park ranger? Or are you or one of your boys going to try a granny knot and watch it slip out of the hands of the kid in danger? Acco40 - i hope if i ever slide off a path - that Bob's around and not you or one of your troop who need to 'review' before you can rescue me! Truly 'mastering' those knots serves a dual purpose, though - aside from knowing the knots themselves. Knots are like puzzles - if you truly know what makes this one slide and that one stay put - then you have been taught to 'think' and 'problem solve' - at least for those problems requiring a rope! I do think that the requirements need to be updated - taut line hitches are nice, and useful if you have old-style tentage or are doing historical work - but they are not necessary to modern camping equipment. I am GLAD to be rid of all those dang lines to trip over! Many of the Saw and Axe requirements are not appropriate, either, with the emphasis on 'leave no trace' - hatchet and knife are more appropriate. But as long as the requirements are THERE - I will continue to require 'mastery' of the skill. that is - a boy will have to be able to tie the knot, sharpen the axe, etc WITHOUT THE BOOK HANDY and with no prompts from anyone, before I will sign off on his book. he has to 'own' the skill. laura

Hops - i had to laugh at your response - the adv chair IS an overgrown boy - 36 yr old, single and lives at home with his mom - the Charter rep. she is a driving force in our troop. but she is also computer-phobic, very old fashioned - and all our records are on troopmaster. He WANTS to do alot for the troop - but is really poor at follow through (and as the queen of disorganization, I KNOW that of which I speak!) Eisley - I have pushed for a meeting or something with the troop parents. the SM agrees with me - the CC does, too - but they have not made the effort to do so. summertime, after camp is a traditionally slow time for our troop. Today's picnic is/was a prime opportunity - most of the families come and we have lots of time to see them one-on-one and talk to them. Unfortunately, I could barely move with my back out, (bad enough i got my chiropractor out to see me on a SUNDAY - goo thing she's a long-time friend) and I could not go. I hope they DID make some effort to recruit and draw in some parents other than the low key 'we need help' plea. thanks for listening, guys - It's nice to know there's somewhere I can vent!

My son chose to have his badges sewn on in the order he earned them - but since they are awarded in groups, he may get anywhere from 2 - 8 in one COH. So we have a little leeway room for 'arrangement'. he has the Eagle required badges down the center row of his sash - electives on the outside boarders. We started at about the height of the shirt pocket. the suggestion about taking a 'tuck' in the top of the longer badge sash at the shoulder and later letting it out is a good one - it is unobtrusive and saves ALOT of re-sewing later.

the other day a parent came up to me and told me that I really needed to 'get on' our Adv coord because he wasn't keeping up with the boy's advancements. I am NOT the SM of our troop, but i am a really active adult leader, and many parents have had alot of contact with me because I have been the Activities Coordinator for a couple of years. So, since i am not the SM, and it was only one parent, I just pointed out that they needed to talk to Mr W (Committee Chair and Mr M (SM)and went on. later i overheard some other parents gripingabout him - but since the person who is Adv. Coord is a friend of mine, I just didn't butt in and comment ( real unusual for me - I comment on EVERYTHING - one of MY faults) . No one was being specific as to what the problems were. Well, today i found out part of what annoyed this parent - we had our annual Family picnic / court of honor - usually the biggest COH of the year, as it covers all the rank advancements and badges earned at summer camp. I threw out my back yesterday and could not go - another family took my son. Of the 6 badges my son earned this summer, he received ONE actual badge. This was a typical ratio for ALL the boys. Camp was more than 6 weeks ago, and as Acting SM for camp, i personally turned in all the records to the Adv Chair tues after we returned from camp - with all advancements and badge cards recorded on troopmaster print-outs so all he had to do was the data entry into Troopmaster. Two weeks after our first camp - some of our boys attended a second summer camp. those records were also turned in immediately after camp. 4 weeks ago. Knowing that he was going on vacation in between the two camps, and that afterwards, he was starting a new job - and because I have been unemployed all summer and have time on my hands - I volunteered a number of times to run over to the council office for him, do the data entry in troopmaster, or help him out any other way, etc. he always told me he had it all taken care of. But then, the Adv chair 'forgot' or didn't get the order placed in time for the boys to get their actual badges. Only badges he had "in stock" were given out. (the old Adv chair kept a small overstock for last minute turn-ins of badge cards - so we had a surplus of 'odd' badges) the one badge my son got was "Home Repair" Which is not a popular/common badge - we must've had one in the box already. Now, since i am disorganized and often late, forget things, etc - i have alot of sympathy for someone who has trouble with organization and time management. I consider the current Adv. Chair a personal friend as well as a scouting friend. But I just don't see any plausible reason for this?!? 4 - 6 weeks past camp? i could see SOME badges MIA if they were completed after camp and turned in late - but not that many! I guess it also peeves me that after I left the committee as Activities Coordinator in Feb, he took it over and messed that up, too. In April, I took the job back, temporarily, until they could find someone else - even though i am now an ASM. In April - he took the Advancement position, because the prior Adv chair, a very methodical person, was asked to take over as treasurer. (the treasurer and son left the troop in Feb) BEcause he hadn't done anything there, either - i had to scramble to make reservations and change plans because some parks were not available for may and june campouts. he hadn't made any reservations for future campouts. No one wants to do the Activities Job, and yet, the committee doesn't really want a non-committee person to do it either. After camp, I was told that a father was going to do it, but when I contaced him about getting the information to him - he stalled. that father has made no attempt to take over the job and I am STILL doing it - it seems as if the troop doesn't really CARE if the boys never get to go on another trip??? They are certainly making no effort to see them do so??? so we still have no one in THAT job either. For our last trip, again, I made the arrangements and reservations - or it would not have happened. I have been told that I am doing too much - and i agree, i am. BUT NO ONE ELSE IS DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT! i just can't stand to see the boys loose out on activities because the adults can't get their act together! We are certainly short-handed in the adult volunteer department. We have parents complaining, but none willing to take on these jobs. I am certainly far from perfect, i can procrastinate, loose stuff, forget and disorganize with the best. I do have Attention Deficit disorder, and yet, when it comes down to the wire, I have never let the boys down in taking care of the essentials in making sure a trip happens. I might forget my son's and my bike helmets,(did that once - had to buy some on the way) but I always have the paperwork and permits taken care of. so am i wrong to be really annoyed with this guy? With the whole troop committee? We've woprked so hard on turning this troop around, and we still seem to keep stumbling and screwing up. I'm so discouraged.

in case anyone would like to see our photos of the trip - here's a link to our troop website photo album - hope it works! http://groups.msn.com/BSATroop159Woodstock/wisconsinrivertrip2003.msnw?Page=1

Last weekend a handful of older scouts and 4 leaders set out to travel 25 miles down the Wisconsin River and camp out on it's many sandbars. the trip was everything that I remembered from my scout trips down it as a kid. We had terrific weather; balmy days and cool clear nights, no bugs to speak of, good company, good fun and no one dumped their canoe! the boys learned how to 'read' the water, and by the second day, they didn't run aground & have to 'walk' the canoes across quite as many sandbars as on the first day! The nights were so clear, that both nights we simply hung mosquito nets from the tent frames and slept under the stars - the first night, the moon was so bright it actually cast shadows and kept us awake! the second night, camping on a sandbar in the middle of a state forest area - the moon didn't rise until 3 or 4 AM - and we were treated to a clear view of the Perseids meteor shower. to anyone contemplating such a trip in Wisconsin or Illinois, I would highly recommend the books "Paddling Southern Wisconsin" (also Northern WI and Illinois - maybe other areas, too) by Mike Svob. these books were invaluble in their clear river descriptions, skill levels, river maps, directions and information to contact outfitters, campgrounds and shuttle services. the Wisconsin River is a wonderful river, made better by the various conditions and challenges along it's entire length - and typical of most Wisconsin waterways and lakes - all clean and sand-bottomed. You can take trips on this river from 1 day to a couple of weeks, and the wildlife is spectacular. We even saw a pair of eagles! laura PS - the tips you all gave me in my previous posts were very helpful - especially the one about the 5 gal buckets. i also found some smaller 2-gal buckets the boys used for personal gear - and they worked GREAT! plus - they made wonderful campfire stools, the lids made dinner prep surfaces and cutting boards, etc.

Sad as it is, boys are STILL boys, and many of these 'elected' positions go by popularity, or what is 'expected' of them, rather than the boys actually taking into consideration who would be a 'good' SPL (or any other position, for that matter) This frustrates me no end - because I see boys or their parents pushing them for POR's just because they 'need' them for rank advancement, rather than because they are interested in or capable of doing that particular job. And I see other boys making decisions on who to elect - based not on ability - but on who their friends are, or who's 'bad side' they don't want to be on. (one reason I think all elections should be by paper ballot - not show of hands) If the only SPL's in your troop ever has are always the SM's sons - well, then there is a problem - how can the troop possibly function with an unwilling SPL? and if he is doing it because 'Dad' wants hime too - well then, who is REALLY the SPL - the kid? or 'Dad'? In the ideal troop, the boys will have learned their success depends on teamwork and good leadership - but in practice - they take longer to learn that than we hope they will!