LauraT7

i LOVE it, Sparkie! I can think of a few more "optional" requirements.... 16. Find the hidden electrical outlets in camp for your Palm Pilot, laptop and to re-charge your digital camera. 17. Move the car at least once a day to "test the A/C" 18. Setup a hammock and bring a good book. 19. float on an air mattress in the swimming area & work on your tan. 20. Take a shower or two each day to cool off - but instead of deodorant, douse yourself in bug spray. I think we'll have to make this a Napawon Tradition - lets see, what would our patch be... A scouter in his hammock with his hat over his face and the boys fanning him? LOL!

Thanks, Mark & dancinfox! Boy, when I need something, someone on this board ALWAYS comes thru! You guys are GREAT! lauraT

http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/9152/adultinsignia.html http://www.usscouts.org/awards.asp Eisley, The above are two sites I have found that have most of the info I needed. Maybe they can help you find what you're looking for. lauraT

Sheesh! Sometimes it seems like BSA is TRYING to keep people in the dark! I don't know how big your councils are, but I come from one that is pretty big in geographical size, and I'm actually only about an hour from our council office - but I've never been there. (It's in a kinda bad part of town, too - they're going to be moving in the next year or so) I wish there was a library of documentation that I could go look up some of this stuff! That's why BSA has really got to come online more - and get more info into the hands of the volunteers. Most people won't bother to dig around looking for things like I do - they're not as crazy / anal as me! LOL! Instead, they depend on word-of-mouth and heresay - and that's how all that common misinterpretation of the program thrives! Besides, my rememberer is getting old and crowded - I prefer things written down to being pulled from my faulty memory! Our roundtables have a 'trading post' of selections from the council office, but certainly not the entire collection of manuals, books, etc. And it gets kind of expensive to buy a manual, sealed in shrink wrap, just to find out that it DOESN'T have the info you are looking for, and that you need something else! I have gotten ALOT of information from training - but with my insatiable curiosity - that just creates MORE questions for me!

does anyone have a .pdf or .doc file of the NEW 2003 Local tour permit? If so could you e-mail it to me? I have one paper copy, which I need for a trip. I have tried scanning it to save the blank for future use - but it doesn't seem to be working. All the links I can find (USSSP, Scouter.com, etc) are for the old permit. I know I can get more at roundtable, but I like to keep as many forms as possible in my computer - that way I don't misplace them, or get them all dog-eared before I use them. I'm trying to get away from keeping so much paper. thanks, LauraT tlaurat7@hotmail.com

in questioning some of my district scouters - here, it is the leaders themselves that track their own progress - which is why some units have leaders with lots of awards and others have none. I came from a pack that never mentioned training, and while our cubmaster was great with the boys - organization wasn't his thing - everything was "winging it". I don't even know if the pack had a committee! LOL! the cubmaster kept track of all the advancements for the boys - how could he track adults, too?! although we are volunteers, it's nice to be recognised for the time and effort we spend training and working on improving program for the boys. and while it would be nice if someone else "gave" us our rewards without being asked for, like the boys, we must keep track of our progress ourselves. Like Woodbadge, these other awards give the adults a direction, a goal - a "ticket" to work, advancing the program by their design and creating well trained adults. you can certainly provide a good program without them - but it's one way to encourage training. As for the boys - in our courts of honor - the adults are always given participation patches for events along with the boys, anyway. I think it would be good for the boys to see their leaders get rewards - to know the effort the leaders put in for them. I would not let the adult awards overshadow the boys' awards, though. If there were more than a couple, I would schedule a separate event for the adults. many are given on the district level & up, anyway - not within the troop or pack. Thanks for the help and suggestions for Scot, though - I sent a note to our CC and Adv Chair - I think we can get something in the works for him.

I posted this under training, so ignore this if you saw it there.... I'm frustrated - I used to have a tracking page for training - after it was completed, I could get my training square knot. It was a paper that you could fold into quarters to fit in your wallet. Can't find the durned thing! I think a number of my Troop co-horts would also qualify for this award, IF I can find it and check off the requirements for all of us. (the only place I can find it online - the link is broken) We are having a COH in a few weeks and have to get orders in early as our Advancement chair is going on vacation over spring break. Anybody have an online copy of this card/sheet they can e-mail me? tlaurat7@hotmail.com Also, We have a longtime ASM (30 + years in adult scouting) who has devoted his LIFE to the boys in our troop. he was a Life scout himself - who missed out on his Eagle because he was too busy helping another boy! I don't know if he has taken all the requisite training for some awards, but I would like to put him in for some official BSA recognition - esp as he has recently been in the hospital with a brain tumor. I'd like him, and the whole council to know how much this man means to our boys. Anybody have any suggestions as to what might be appropriate? Would the 'Award of Merit' be suitible/ allowed?

I'm frustrated - I used to have a tracking page for training - after it was completed, I could get my training square knot. It was a paper that you could fold into quarters to fit in your wallet. Can't find the durned thing! I think a number of my Troop co-horts would also qualify for this award, IF I can find it and check off the requirements for all of us. (the only place I can find it online - the link is broken) We are having a COH in a few weeks and have to get orders in early as our Advancement chair is going on vacation over spring break. Anybody have an online copy of this card/sheet they can e-mail me? tlaurat7@hotmail.com Also, We have a longtime ASM (30 + years in adult scouting) who has devoted his LIFE to the boys in our troop. he was a Life scout himself - who missed out on his Eagle because he was too busy helping another boy! I don't know if he has taken all the requisite training for some awards, but I would like to put him in for some official BSA recognition - esp as he has recently been in the hospital with a brain tumor. I'd like him, and the whole council to know how much this man means to our boys. Anybody have any suggestions as to what might be appropriate? Would the 'Award of Merit' be suitible/ allowed?

Our troop has recently gotten back into boy lead and the patrol method after years of being run by adults. The boys are doing great - but since THEY have never had a NSP, or been really lead and taught by the older boys themselves, they don't know how to do it for our new boys. For the past few years, we have had only 1 or 2 new scouts fly up. Thanks to our recruiting efforts, we are getting at least 5 and possibly up to 10 new scouts! We want to do this right! So what kind of skills should our troop guides have? what should we look for, in addition to knowledge of the scouting skills, in the way of abilities and rank? Almost all our current boys are at least first class, and a number of boys have expressed interest in being 'troop guide' or 'instructor' -some of them, however I think are motivated because they think they can then boss the younger boys around, or that it will be and "easy" job, and we we want to avoid that scenario. Some suggestion has been to make an older boy their patrol leader AND troop guide - but I think that it's better to do the 1 month plan from the new scouts as PL. Besides, wouldn't the older boy get bored doing all the young kid stuff ALL the time, and want to hang with his own age buddies? Suggestions, please?

hi Sparkie! 2 suggestions - on our Girl scout cook kits, my mom used to paint my name or initials on the silver, pan handles, etc with nail polish - 30 some odd years later it's still there! (except where fire directly hit the pan bottoms.) I scratched my name into the aluminum, there. nail polish works on plastic, stainless steel, glass, etc and will stay on through the dishwasher, and changing or replacing it is easy. small and cheap, too - and any color nowadays! you can even get glow-in-the dark! our troop uses a number of ways to mark equipment - but the best for pot & patrol box stuff is an engraver. you can also use a special tip from a dremel or rotary tool - to etch patrol names on stuff. cloth things we either sew a patrol patch to or stencil on a patrol symbol. Troop general equipment (stoves, tents) is numbered and checked out by number. We also are looking at new patrol boxes, as our are canvas covered backpack boxes, originally designed for canoeing treks - they strap on one boys' back for portages, but are awkward for regular use and longer walks. - even for car camping - as they are too small and you have to get into them from the top. Stoves and lanterns do NOT fit into them, unless we are using the little MSR stoves. We thought they would go for a 2 man carry, lengthwise box with legs and cooking prep space - but their idea was to adapt the existing boxes to a front opening with legs and keep the small backpack size. If we ever get around to making them - we'll post the design on our website. but for now, we haven't even gotten around to formal plans.

Glad to see you made it, Sparkie! This board has been a wonderful resource for me and for my troop - SOMEBODY here always has an answer that relates! As Scoutldr said - sometimes we can get pretty "into" our perspective on things, and sometimes "differing points of view" get heated -but that just shows the passion for scouting most of us have. But the more, the merrier! YIS LauraT

just a reminder, if anyone would like to join us tonite.... the address is: http://groups.msn.com/BoyScouts/welcome.msnw From there, click on the chat room. you might be able to go directly to the chat room - I've never tried it that way - but here is the address - http://groups.msn.com/BoyScouts/chatroom.msnw Laura

As I posted last sunday, a good scouting friend of mine was in the hospital for the removal of a brain tumor on Monday. After surgery, the doctors said they could not get all the tumor, that it was a fast growing type and would come back - eventually, terminal. They were keeping him sedated the early part of this week. however, once they awakend Scot - he seemed to come together rather quickly. I spoke to his family on Wednesday, and was told that the surgery had affected his coordination somewhat, that the left side of his face was slightly slack, and of course, his head was swollen to about twice it's normal size, but that he was in good spirits and taking things well. A number of scouters & friends had called and talked to him. She thought he might be in for a couple of weeks. I went to see Scot today, to take him a card that all the boys in the scout troop had signed and to take him some photos of them. He was up and around, said the staff wanted him to walk, so he gave me a "tour" of his floor. While he's not ready for any backpacking trips, he's doing very well - the "slackness" has gone from his face already, and much of the swelling has gone down - he was surprisingly steady on his feet. It seems like his 'processing speed' is a little slow - he converses more slowly, and reached for the envelope when he wanted the card, etc. But when you consider that he had a brain tumer removed, it was ecouraging to see only these minor changes. He IS in good spirits, though with the trauma his body has been through, and the mental blow he has had of a probably terminal condition, he is easily emotional. The notes from the boys, talking about them and what he's missing out on made him cry; but I'm sure it helped to know how much they care for him. He is understandably not up to great strain and tires easily - but he is anxious to go home. The doctors agree = he's made great progress and he will be coming home in the next few days! Saturday or Sunday! He won't be going back to work, he will have to undergo radiation, maybe chemo, etc - I guess there is a chance he could beat this - I'm not close enough to the family to know the details. But he has goals already - he wants to get back to the troop to set up to orienteering hikes that are his specialty for the boys that need them for their rank advancements. We talked about future campouts and seranading the boys again (he's become my singing buddy this past year on campouts) His big goal is to go to Napawon summer camp with us - that's in July. Lord, I hope he can! Please continue to keep Scot in your prayers, heaven knows we NEED guys like him! LauraT

Our boys are BORED with knots - but they need them for advancement! We teach and they don't retain the knowledge, they can tie a knot in front of us while we teach - but a few days/weeks later - I ask them to tie me a bowline or a taut-line hitch - and they get the names mixed up, the knot tied wrong, or close, but not quite right. I didn't have to re-learn knots when i started scouting with my son, I remembered them from my scout days. I think part of the reason I retained them well is that more of our equipment, tents and such USED those knots. I also likes crafts, and macrame was popular and used many of the knots. But tents now are freestanding ( and i LIKE no guy-lines to trip over!) and knots are boring, macrame is old-fashioned, and the boys don't remember. So what do YOU do to make knot tying fun and memorable? the rabbit/tree story for the bowline helps - but they still get it mixed up. Does anyone have any good stories /technics for teaching knots in a fun way?

OGE - Lambs farm IS still going strong - it's right off the interstate, before you pass 6 flags.... It's about an hour east of me but still there. mk9750 - We DO want to get the older boys to "sign off" and test the younger ones - problem is that the "older boys" weren't properly trained in the first place and should not have been passed on many requirements. In the past, they were passed on a requirement if they DID it - doesn't mean they KNOW it. Our boys can tie a bowline if I do it first - but if I ask them again next week - most have forgotten. At our last Klondike, Our boys were told by a nameless scouter that their knots and lashing skills "sucked". It may be true, but we ARE trying to remedy that. So our troop policy for now is that an ASM must witness testing (even if the boys teach & test) & sign off on requirements. ASM1 - I was going to take WoodBadge - but in our area, they do it in 2 3-day weekends,(starting friday MORNING) and it was really tough for me to get fridays off. Since I've been laid off - I have loads of time on my hands - but by the time Woodbadge comes around in August - I hope to be working again. Since whatever job I get, I AM going to request time out to go to camp with the boys in July - I think I'm going to have to postpone WoodBadge for another year. I'll get there someday, though! I am signed up for outdoor leader skills weekend in May, though! _______ Thanks for all your input and encouragement - I'm going to call our Committee Chair tonite and resign - and move over to ASM! Laura

I like CubsRgr8's reply - We just opend a 'time capsule' our troop had put in a shelter at camp in the late 70's. (the shelter is being renovated - roof damage - which is why we have the time capsule early) the boys got a real kick out of seeing the uniforms, long hair (many of the young boys in the 60's & 70's scout catalogues looked like girls to them) short shorts, the beret hats, etc. There were many photos of the eagle scout in whose honor the time capsule was created - as he had been killed in an auto accident right after college. The capsule was his personal scouting history - and showed pictures of him on campouts in bell-bottoms and a watchband thick as a belt, with chin length hair, in front of canvas wall tents. he was actually not that different from boys now - very clean-cut, but certainly they noticed the differences! It wasn't that long ago

Keep a tight rein on that committee! LOL! from personal experience; a runaway, over-power hungry committtee can be the death of a troop! is your troop new? or re-building? either way, what you do now sets the tone for the troop for years.... one thing we did for our PLC - which is just getting back into boy lead after generations of 'adult lead' is to give them a big desk calendar, with big squares, and mark out all the school holidays, school concert/band dates, known events like district camporees, klondike, local events (we work the county fair as a fundraiser, parades and such) and scout events, summer camp dates, etc. If you have the $ and wall space - a whiteboard year planner is even better! Make it available for adults to blackout bad times (like when our SM had knee surgery and couldn't drive the bus or do biking) for them to plan around. this gives the boys a 'leg up' on planning, but still puts the ball in their court, and avoids having an activity fall apart because of schedule conflicts. the boys should be planning everything about an outing - even if it's 'have Mr M spend an hour teaching knots' - it shouldn't be the adults planning the activities, unless the boys ask them to do a specific skill or activity. Sounds like you have a promising lead, though - and lots of fun ahead!

Since joining our troop 2 years ago, I have been registered as a committee member. I told them i would serve wherever needed and took training for all positions I could. I AM the troop activities coordinator - I send the permits, make reservations, collect the health forms, register boys and adults for camp - all the "paperwork" involved in getting activities to happen. This is convenient for both me and the troop - as I participate in almost all the troop events, outings and campouts. Because I am so active - it is a little confusing to the boys - who come to me to sign off on their advancements, and I tell them I can't - because I might have to sit their board someday - even though I taught them knots, stoves, scouting skills, etc. (and we now have enough adults to sit boards, that I seldom do anymore) Our troop went through a major upheaval in leadership - one faction fighting against another and I stayed on the committee because I felt I was one of few votes that advocated FOR a boy-lead troop and returning to a true BSA program (from a 'boys club' history). most of the boy-lead advocates were ASM's and our temp SM, and did not have a 'vote' in some major decisions - including convincing the committee that most of those 'decisions' were not theirs to mak, anyway! LOL! We found a wonderful Dad to be SM, who is a boy-lead advocate and who even the opposing faction can grudgingly support. and most of the dissenters have moved on. the thing is - now that the 'crisis' is past, I really want to leave the committee and be an ASM - my heart has always been with the boys, anyway. I kinda feel like I've 'done my time' and now I deserve the fun part. But while we have committee members - we have lots of vacant positions to fill that newbie parents aren't willing to take on just yet. They come for boards when asked, and do specific jobs, but don't want to commit to a "position". We need a secretary, the treasurer is iffy - may leave - the adult quartermaster is just learning his stuff. We have a strong CC and Adv chair. is there any reason I can't be activities coordinator as an ASM? No vote - just report at meetings and SoLong - I'm outta here. (many ASM and SM attend meeting anyway - for info) I don't want to dump another job on the CC to fill - and I have a system set up so it's real easy to do. And if we're going to be truly boy-lead - I don't see why I can't teach the boys to do this job, anyway. Other than writing checks and providing Driver's license and credit cards for reservations, things you must be over a certain age to do - I don't see why an adult has to do this stuff, anyway - it ain't rocket science! Committee was a good place to learn the ropes, get trained and get the feel of scouting - But I'm tired of endless arguments over selling popcorn or plants! We have a number of "specialist" ASM's - but the SM wants to assign 1 ASM to each patrol as advisor, and since I'm at every meeting and event anyway, that would be ideal for me. He wants to really re-inforce our new Patrol method, and have the patrols to start doing "patrol" outings, etc. Especially as for the first time in years, we actually have enough new boys at once for a 'new scout' patrol! He has an Adult ASM for the Venture Patrol and one ASM for 2 regular patrols - he needs one more for either the reg patrol or the new scouts, and we think one of the new scout parents will be ASM for their patrol. So do I stick with the committee and stay activities coord? or quit the committe, be an ASM and NOT be activities coord anymore? or can quit the committee, stay activities coord AND and be an ASM?

Most midwesterner kids have snowpants, or ski/snowmobile clothes they can borrow from someone - It kind of depends on what they are doing - if they are going to be in the snow and kneeling on the ground - possibly getting wet - they need something waterproof - like snowpants or nylon/poly over insulating / wicking layers. Layers are the key - peel if they get warm - before they get soaked with snow or sweat - and a windbreaking/ waterproof outer layer. If I'm not getting wet - long Johns or sweats under jeans have been just fine for me - but then I don't play football in the snow and tackle on the ground like the boys do! And I try to kneel or sit ON something, so my knees don't get damp. good SOCKS - extra socks and layers of socks are your best comfort item. nobody is happy if their feet are cold! You almost can't have too many changes of socks! full changes of clothes are a must - no matter how well they are dressed - they can still get sweaty, clammy and cold - and it's alot easier to warm up a clean set of friged, DRY clothes than some sweat-damp ones. TwoCubDad is right! Change into fresh right before bed - besides - then you're half dressed and WARM for morning! (somehow it always seems colder in the morning! LOL!) This is a really tough one to teach - no matter how often we lecture the boys - AND THEY REPEAT IT AND KNOW IT - it's still like pulling teeth to get them to change all the way down to fresh skivvies at night. it's part a modesty thing and partly a comfort thing - they just don't want to take off body warm clothes and put on cold stuff out of their packs - they'll do anything to avoid that chill. ACtually, if you're in a tent or shelter and no breeze, you really don't loose much body heat by stipping down if you dress FAST! They don't realize how quickly the fresh stuff warms up and KEEPS them warmer!

I see some new posters on the board! Welcome! This troop would signal a red flag to me, too - They MAY only be trying to get good trained leaders, and this is commendable - but my gut instinct say this may be a very authoritarian troop and NOT boy run. I would talk to some of the OTHER leaders in the troop, and some people who have boys in the troop who are active scouters - roundtable might be a good way to get some inside info on the troop. Scouting should be an open program - and the more, the merrier! Adult leaders can always be utilized - even if they don't all go on campouts! our troop currently has 21 registered boys and 25 registered leaders. Some are "special service" leaders who only do high adventure, badge counseling or popcorn, or they own property to store & maintain equipment for us. But each has a purpose and WANTS to help the boys within their own skill set. We do ask parents that participate more than a few times to register formally with the troop and we encourage training as much as possible. Many hands make light work! lauraT

OGE - I have a version of the Abbot and Costello/ scout skit - using two scouts - but I'd love to see yours, too - could you send me a copy, too? BTW - I think somewhere on the SCOUTER site is a list of skits.... if i can find a link, I'll post it - I've saved quite a ew and have a book of them for our scouts to use - they uysually pick one and put their own twist on it or at least they give them a springboard for their own ideas - we've had some great campfire entertainment! lauraT

Cabin overnights can be ALOT of fun - esp for the comraderie they encourage - all the boys in one place instead of in separate tents, the music & conversation as they all drift off to sleep around the fireplace.... It's a great opportunity to build the team & relationships in scouting. One thing though - on our last winter campout, we chose to do "survival camping" - the boys had to build their own shelters out of tarps and whatever they could find - they did a great job, too! and were cozy warm - only thing was that because they had decided that the "rules of the game" were to be minimum impact - small stoves and no campfires - and it got REALLY COLD - once the sun went down about 4:30 - 5 pm, the only thing to do was eat and go to bed to keep warm. (about 6:30 - 8?) It made for a really long night - and the boys were up as soon as it got light... If you truly do "leave no trace" camping and don't have a cabin or fires - what do you do to keep entertained and warm on these winter campouts in the dark? We did bring a telescope for some star watching - but it was overcast....

First, thank you for your prayers & kind thoughts and wishes - unfortunately, as the Dr's had said, they were not able to get all of the tumors, and the sad news is that they are a fast growing type and will come back - their expectation is that Scot has maybe 6 months left. Right now, they are keeping him heavily sedated, and the only visitors allowed are immediate family. Of course, they are in shock - his dad has been gone for a number of years, and his mom and brother are all he has. His "family" has always been scouting - the boys he cares for and understands so well. We suspect that even when he does awaken, the damage done will neccesitate him spending the rest of his life in a nursing home or care facility, as his mom is not physically able to care for him herself. His brother has a young family (2 boys, 5 & 7) of his own in northern Minnesota, and can't be here all the time. It seems such a waste - Scot is gifted, highly intellegent, & works in some kind of medical technology field, and has patented a number of machines that are in use in hospitals today. Like many bright people, his interests and knowledge cover many areas - music, engineering, science, math, geology, nature... and he has been generous in sharing not only his knowledge with the boys, but his spirit of wonder and adventure - watching him with the boys is like watching butterflies emerge from a cocoon - it's magical. I can't find any reason in this - it's just so horribly sad. My hope and prayers now turn to wishing that he will recover enough to spend some time with the scouts who have been his life for the past 30 years, and gave him so much joy. lauraT

Hmmm - I'm sure now that we have violated ( though unintentionally) this rule - Our favorite camping spot, at a BSA camp is a small octagonal cabin with a fireplace in the center of it. NO insulation - just board walls and one bare lightbulb. There is maybe 4-5 ft walking space around the fireplace and between it and the bunk camp beds surrounding it against the walls. how the heck would you divide that? Can't hang anything without creating a fire hazard - and belive me - that cabin is so old, that it could go up FAST! what we have done is in the past is that 2 male ASM's take one bunk and the boys have the rest - the female scouters that go, sleep in tents. Actually, the ASM's usually have to draw straws to see who HAS to stay with the boys - most of us adults prefer the tents. The general consensus though is to not leave them in the building alone - the idea being that the adults can keep the fire going all night, keep the boys from staying up all night and keep the place from burning down over their heads. I suppose we could take shifts, monitoring the fire and NONE of the Adults sleep in the cabin... But we're really getting our boys to go more and more for tent camping in the winter, anyway.

I have to laugh at this one - because the 2 yrs ago our troop went "cabin camping" & the other female leaders and I took one "breath" of the musty air in the cabin and said "well take the tent!" The cabin was so old, smokey and musty that I KNEW my allergies would have had fits! Seriously - We were much more comfortable in our tent than the boys in the cabin - as evidenced by my son and some other boys leaving in the middle of the night to join the few in the tents - because they couldn't breathe in the smoky cabin! LOL! this year, more boys opted for the tents to start with - but we still had a few who weren't really equipped for the cold camping (despite many, many lectures and demonstrations of winter camipng prep) and opted for the cabin and an all night fire. Women should NOT be quartered with the boys - but in some situations, you have to be practical and use some common sense. I think either the moms have to come prepared to sleep in a tent and not in the cabin or partition off an area in the cabin if possible. Heck if it's the right kind of 'cabin' - they can sleep in the bathroom or kitchen, even! Or what about putting up a small tent INSIDE the "cabin" for privacy? If it had gotten really, dangerously cold - If someone was ill or in danger, I would have moved them into the cabin, if necessary, regardless of their sex. if in an emergency, I HAD to sleep in the same room with the boys - I doubt it would scar them for life! what are they gonna "see" anyway? a big lump in a sleeping bag? We had an overnight a few months ago where the boys did a sleep-in at the church, and the ONLY adults female ASM's. We slept in the hallway outside the room the boys were in - mostly to keep them from playing around the church at night. But they were going to and fro past us anyway - to the bathroom and such. When Camping in summer, I sleep in a t-shirt and shorts - in winter, I sleep in a sweatsuit. there's nothing for the boys to see that they don't see during the daytime. I change in my tent, with all the lights off - hey, tents aren't that "private" either! And I think some of the "mystery" dissappears, when they find out that I snore just as badly as the male scouters! LOL! But if you're going camping in the winter - why not tent it? its so much more fun than a cabin and the boys can get their "polor bear" patches! Winter camping is GREAT - NO MOSQUITOES!