LauraT7

This morning I got a call from the Scoutmaster of our Boy Scout Troop. A good friend of ours and an Assistant Scoutmaster in the troop is in the hospital - with a brain tumor. Scot is of a personality both brilliant and scattered - He has a wonderful rapport with the boys in the troop, especially those like my son - who is ADHD & gifted and just somehow don't "fit" at school. Scot has a wonderful gift of bringing out each boys best abilities, and encouraging them. He has spent his entire life either being a Scout or teaching Scouts; he is truly a special person. He has become a good friend and mentor to so many boys over the years, and seldom misses a meeting, outing or campout with them - giving unselfishly of his time and friendship, though he has no children of his own. His empathy and genuine interest in each boy, make him an undeniable favorite pal on any trip or outing. Now this wonderful friend has been struck down in a frightening way. He has two golf ball sized tumors in the right frontal lobe of his brain, and they are going to operate to remove them tomorrow. One is in a location that they are not sure they will be able to get it all, nor will they know if they are cancerous until they are removed. His surgery is scheduled for 1:30 Monday, and is estimated to take 5 - 6 hours. Jon and I went to see him this afternoon, and he is on medication and in good spirits - he was delighted to see one of his 'boys' - but he is certainly frightened as well. I am frightened that my son and I are about to lose a wonderful friend. Please, send up a prayer for our friend, Scot. That the tumor be benign, that they get all of it and that his recovery be swift. Thank You, Laura

first - line 'em up against that brick wall and shoot 'em! That'll at least give you a fresh start! ;-) Almost anyone will tell you it's trouble when too many family members get their fingers in the same pie, instead of "scouting" you =then get a family run club. Seriously - sounds like its time for some new leadership! Have you talked to your charter Org rep? perhaps they aren't aware that this couple's overbearing tactics are tarnishing the future of your pack? If you get no help from them or the council - it sounds like your choice is put up with it or move. - In some ways, being a den leader, you can choose to do things YOUR way ( the SCOUT way) as you have been doing (and it sounds like you're doing a good job!) and avoid the pack people except where necessary. Wouldn't be my favorite way to go, but if you are the only one that wants and will push for change, you may not have a choice. Boys deserve to advance when THEY are ready - and if your boys are ready in FEb or at Blue & Gold - then that's fine. In many places, the 'scout year' seems to run from feb - feb, or march to march - esp when you get up to Webelos crossing over to Boy Scouts. If they get their advancements then, no reason they can't start working on the next one - they're all going to probably be together in the same den anyway next year. or you can transfer to a new pack. many have done that - it happens. It's usually the adults that mess up scouting - not the kids! We had a similar thing "almost" happen - a very strong family - bullying son, and Dad wanted to be SM. Mom had been (and still is)troop treasurer for 3 yrs and held onto the checkbook like it was theirs. CC was their best friend - the sons grew up like brothers. Lots of troop decisions were starting to be made in their living rooms instead of committee meetings. our troop split into factions, for them and against them. It was VERY messy, and we are still feeling the repercusiions of it. Lots of bad feelings, and recruitment fell to nothing, the boys lost out on activities because of the childish power struggles by the adults. A SAD, SAD thing, and not very "scoutlike". We have a new SM and a solid team behind him now. The troublemakers make a feeble attempt once in awhile to stir things up and are quickly re-directed. It has been a tough road. if you feel yu have enough supporters to turn the Pack around - then go for it. But if you don't have enough, try and can't control the situation, the boys lose all around. good luck! LauraT

Don't know if any of you would be interested - but I belong to an MSN group board on Boy Scouting that is trying to get up a Chat on Tues nights @ 9 pm central time. It is a small group - not nearly as active as this one. But we thought it might be nice to get and online "Roundtable" going. If any of you would like to join us - the address is: http://groups.msn.com/BoyScouts/_whatsnew.msnw you need a free msn, msn IM or hotmail account to access the "groups". hope to see some of you there on Tues! LauraT

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=9718 This is a good link to another thread on ADHD in scouting -

YES! but most parents prefer to have another counselor sign the card just to avoid any hints of favoritism. Unless, as Korea Scouter said, they are teaching a class or a group of scouts. For the same reason, most parent ASM's will not choose to sign their own son's advancements. Some troops will try to pass this off as a troop/district/ council/ national rule - but it ain't so!

I have to laugh - the scene you paint would be trying for any ADULT much less a teen - even a well trained, and well intentioned one.... How about some help from an ADD Mom of an ADHD scout? If you truly have that many REAL ADHD kids - and not just some who egg the others on - you DO have a problem. Some are bound to be more "intense" than others. And as you've already found out - punishment doesn't help - it's more work for you and doesn't (usually) make any impression on them. With ADD - EVERYTHING is RIGHT NOW. very impulsive - planning and forthought and consequences are all totally foreign concepts to them. of couse, it depends on how old they are and the severity of their ADHD - but for the most part, that's true. and by the time YOU see them, IF they are on medication, the medication has worn off, and you have unvarnished, unleashed ADD. If they are hyperactive, as many are - they are also physically bouncing off the walls like superballs! Make a call (preferably with your SM) to the parents of each "problem" boy. ASK them to help you, by 1. telling you what strengths and weaknesses the boy has, 2. What works and doesn't in motivating and controlling his behavior 3. ASK them to help the TROOP in a specific way - to free up another adult or older scout to work with their child. Armed with the knowledge of what makes each of your 5 problem children "tick" - now you can work out a "plan" 1st, talk to your SM about making APL a "position of responsibility" for the APL of the patrol with the ADHD PL. The SM CAN do this and it might help the ADHD PL get more organized - they can truly work as a team. 2nd - overkill - in any communications, for most ADHD'ers 'listening' is the absolute worst way to get any instructions across. Before you finish you're sentence - they've lost it and gone on to something else. WRITE IT, post it, send it home in a flyer, put it on a website, and MAKE SURE THEIR PARENTs KNOW - what is expected of them. If a boy has a particular job, make it the family's responsibility, until the boy learns. you can't possibly hold the hands of FIVE boys, and no one should expect you to! USE their strengths - even when your patience is wearing. For example, we have one ADHD boy in our troop who is mostly obnoxious - he is also a rock expert - his dad is a geologist - so he teaches geology on hikes to anyone who will listen. His obnoxiousness dissapears in the face of pride in his knowledge! My ADHD son's interest is science, aviation and stars - get him talking about those and he stops fidgeting and whistling! At meetings keep things VERY ACTIVE, keep talk short and to the point. Our troop has started "Fellowship fun" - games and time to "hang out and play basketball or some active game in the church gym AFTER meetings - but only if they accomplish the goals set for meeting and keep on schedule. hard and fast and consistant rules - NO EXCEPTIONS, and no anger, either - and Phil - our SPL, is adamant about sticking to the schedule - and he is the best SPL we have ever had! On campouts - Do you have two man tents? if not, get some - or make the boys sleep 2 to a tent anyway - and spread them out so they can't talk between tents. Try to pair a natural early riser with an ADHD. It's hard to talk all night to someone who's snoring! Face ALL the doors toward the fire and keep the tents where they can be seen. Wear them out! Try some long Bike Trips or hikes or hard physical activitiy for some of your first campouts - tired boys don't yack at night! Our troop has sometimes gone overboard in this respect, but it does work - we have many 1 night campouts where we bike ALL DAY, eat on the trail, get to camp just before dark, set up, cook, cleanup, campfire, skits & music, bed and they are OUT FOR THE COUNT. For the first 3-6 campouts, get an adult to agree to sit up and "mind the fire" - they don't have to DO anything, but their prescence is your backup authority. Come up with a penalty for any boy out of tent after "lights out" other than to latrine. use a latrine pass if you have to (at first) - one at a time. Boys who sleep in, miss breakfast,& do dishes & chores (whether they ate or not) no discussion, no holding food for them. We have one (NOT ADHD) who does this regularly - his choice - he'd rather sleep than eat. So be it. If you have a campout where you are doing advancements or badgework - be aware of medication schedules. Most ADDer's take meds breakfast and noon. Some last 6-8 hrs - some about 4. Meds take 30 min to an hour to "kick in" so prime attention time is mid to late morning, and early afternoon. Plan intense, but sit down stuff for those times - learning knots, safety lectures, badgework - and make sure to allow for movement and breaks. Plan really interesting, active, and unstructured things, stuff they really look forward to, for late afternoon and after supper- when the meds are worn off and their attention spans are shorter. Athletics, hand's on activities, free time. (not too much free time - an hour or so - or they'll FIND some trouble!) The more "serious" an activity - the smaller the groups should be - break up the ADDers - or they will "feed" each other's restlessness. If possible, make them 1 on 1 or 2 to 1, teacher / student. whether they like it or not - your ASM's are gonna have to help out - no 1 person can handle 5 ADDer's out of 7. they don't have to run the show - but they should be willing to "monitor" a couple of specific boys each and help keep them in line until they learn. It's not fair to make you and the two non-adders take all the weight of supporting these. Sorry this is long, but i hope it gives you and some others some ideas for boys who probably NEED scouting more than the average. If there is any thing I can do to help, andy insight or advice i can give, please feel free to e-mail me. tlaurat7@hotmail.com YIS Laura

Thanks Doug! that answer makes sense to me - as ever since we started with this troop, they have had "Scout Sunday" a week after everyone else does. I didn't even think about communion, as our Lutheran Church has communion every week - and I don't attend the Methodist Church often enough to know. But you're right, the service was longer, because the boys really participated, and there was a ceremony dedicating & blessing our new flags, and presenting a Methodist Scouter award to our Charter org rep. Good thing they DIDN'T have communion, too - or I might still BE THERE! LOL!

I did a search for boxes last summer and got quite a few plans and instructions and websites for our boys to chose from. they took all this and designed their own! Still haven't built it yet, but we're working with a stingy troop comittee. If you e-mail me I'll send you all the plans and links I collected - one on-line site's plans let you adjust the dimensions to your equipment! e-mail me at tlaurat7@hotmail.com

the side of the lake is too rocky and dangerous? Oh my! Well - here's a big sack - why don't you take a couple of boys and go pick up all those nasty rocks........and when you're done, perhaps you can use your media influence to get someone to donate a retaining seawall to stop the erosion on that side of the lake, after all, we don't want the lake shut down completely, do we? I'm being silly, of course - But USE him. I think you're on the right track to try to get him into some kind of position. If he gets in and gets trained, he's likely to find that there are reasons for the "rocks" in the system that he was previously unaware of. Complainers often can't (or won't) see the big picture. If they are made responsible for part of it - he'll either buckle down and be of some help, or he'll burn himself out chasing imaginary problems. Either way it's better than listening to the whining!

"I'm more of an organiser or/and a contact guy Plus a designer of events." probably the reason your SM asked you to take this position. if the new group is for older boys (14+) then THEY will lead, but they need an adult familiar with the guidelines and goals of scouting to provide the structure - It sounds like you know the ins and outs of the scouting system - rules, where to get permits, who to contact for camps, resources, etc. If you are them willing to let the boys lead - under your guidance and knowledge of the program - it should be off to a good start. sounds like your SM has more confidence in your abilities than you do - trust him!

Why does the methodist church have a different Scout sunday? My son and I are Lutheran - so do we attend our church on Feb 2 in uniform and then go to the Methodist church on Feb 9, too? We ARE participating in the Methodist church Scout Sunday this year, because they are our CO and are giving and dedicating new troop and American flags to the troop on FEb 9 and all the boys are participating in the service. But i'm still curious as to why two different dates....

Memories.... when I was in grade school - 4th grade? my family took a week long trip to California and I wanted to pack my suitcase myself. After all, I had been on many trips and many campouts & summer camp with girl scouts - I should know how to pack by now. I was very thourough - looking at myself, I chose a top, pants, socks and shoes for each day - and tossed in my sweater and a raincoat for good measure. My mother refrained from "checking". When we got to CA - I found I had NO UNDERWEAR! (I guess my visual approach didn't work for underclothes!LOL!) so I learned to wash out underthings by hand until we could go to a store and buy me some! A lesson learned soundly - I never again forgot my undies! but I also learned that if you do forget something, it isn't the end of everything, either! And if my mom had double checked my packing and not trusted me - would I remember this lesson? would it have made such an impact? NOPE! It is so amazing to watch kids learn - and really? what CAN happen? so they forget the noodles - or they burn the pancakes, or a finger! THEY LEARN! They learn to do without, and they learn to improvise. Obstacles overcome become stepping-stones to new challenge and responsibility. Our troop recently did a winter campout where the boys had to improvise shelters. Simple, yes - but they hadn't done this before - and the pride in those shelters was immeasurable! If the adults don't give the boys a CHANCE to succeed, how will they ever learn to do it on their own? Too much of our lives are given up to following passively - TV, video games, school, work - we do what others direct us to. Kids need to be allowed to fire their own imaginations and try things for themselves!

Wow! some really good advice here - just some comments - I wish we had your family in OUR troop! Parents and a boy who REALLY want to do the program right and get involved - you are a treasure and please don't let this troop sour you on scouting! If your son has been in 6 months and already earned so many badges, on his own or with the troop - you should be proud of him. But in that time period his troop should have been concentrating on bringing his scouting (and therefore advancement) skills to where he can be a fully functioning member of a boy-lead troop. That's what the advancements are all about - benchmarks to show a boy has learned the skills to be a usefull member of the team! (and one thing drives me nuts - if a boy has earned his Arrow of Light in Webelos - then he IS a SCOUT rank almost right away! all it needs is signatures. WHY do troops make them do this stuff over again????) You are perfectly correct in refusing to sign off on badgework that is not in your area of expertise. Badge counselors sign up to counsel specific badges - not all in general. They are specified on your application to become a badge counselor. Stick to your guns. Being a badge counselor is great. But the purpose of badges is not to aquire as many as possible - they are meant to let the boys get some in depth experience and knowledge in a field of interest in a way that is not available to them otherwise (through school or other avenues) Badgework should not be done at meetings. SOME badges lend themselves to being done as a group or troop - by that I mean badges like hiking, biking, camping - when possible, if our troop is going on a bike trip or campout - someone takes a look at the requirements for those kind of badges and we try to conform to the requirement providing ample opportuinities for cooking, planning and trip length(a 40 mile bike trip, we might add 10 miles onto the end for those who want their 50 mile requirement) Merit badge classes, esp. for the "school like" badges are great - but they should be done outside meetings. Boys should have to put forth some initiative to get a badge-not just get credit for it by showing up at regular meetings! Out troop was decidedly NOT boy lead. It was not a badge mill like yours - but was a "boys club" not Boy Scouting. For the most part - the boys had fun - they had some great trips and activities - but it was not teaching them independance and leadership. It's been a long haul to get back to the program and we still have a long way to go - but I look at the boys I have worked with in the past two years and I see tremendous growth and enthusiam. I see adults-in-the-making that I am SO proud of. You have a choice - try to fix the troop you are in or go to another. "fixing" a broken troop is difficult - if you have other parents who feel as you do - it is possible - but it is tough to fight the established leadership - esp if many are happy with it as is. your other choice is to move - You seem to have a line to activities on your district and council level. Any boy or family can participate in these - go to them, talk to other leaders, have your son talk to other boys. Find out from them what troops are truly boy lead and following the program. and make your choice. Parents of boys in a troop don't always know (or care!) what the program is supposed to be, as long as their child is happy. The Scouters in the district and council DO know. Even boys in the troops won't know if they are missing out - they've never known any other way. Adult lead troops can be loads of fun, they can teach alot of skills - but they are not what scouting was meant to be for the BOYS.

In my girl scout days, it was common to see girls in windbreaker or denim jackets covered in activity patches (not badges - those were on a vest or sash) Though I can't fit in it anymore - I still have mine, covered neck to hem and all around the sleeves in patches from 15 years of girl scouting. In addition to the badges and awards I earned and wore on my uniform, these colorful soveniers attracted many younger girls and sprouted many disccusions in all the adventures scouting offers to kids. In our area - CUBS wear the red vest - BOY SCOUTS would not be caught in one - it's considered childish. Yet our boys are proud of the patches they have earned and collected from camp, conservation projects, polar bear awards and attending JLT, etc. Some have a blanket - but that's impractical to take camping, and if kept at home, nobody sees it. The red Jac shirts are nice - but awfully expensive for a growing boy. (I went thru a number of windbreakers as a kid) Why doesn't BSA authorise a official "patch jacket" or method of displaying patches? i have a nice stack of patches for my son - an no good way for him to display them! As for the uniform - Keeping it simple has alot of practicality - keeping stuff on the badge sash is nice - because if you are doing clean up or at camp, you can remove the sash and "protect" the badges. I wish they would put more of the insignia ON THE SASH and leave it off the uniform! Girl Scouts did this in my day - most of our awards were on the sash or the later vests. This means the uniform can be washed without wear on the patches or having to remove and replace pins. It also meant that you could have more than one uniform, if needed, and not have to duplicate all the awards! Also, sewing awards on a flat sash is ALOT easier than sewing them on a sleeve or pocket. (How many of your boys have their pockets sewn shut by their rank badges? Alot of ours do!)

yup - worked fine for me, too - Loved your Historical photos! how is the access to Troopmaster working? are alot of your scouters using it? I sure would like to get our troop doing that - but we have alot of non-internet people active. How does it work? it is tough to maintain? Laurat

Can't remember if I posted these ideas that our troop uses or not - but we've got some good ones: for years our troop has parked cars in the parking lot of our local Ace hardware during the 5 days of our county fair. The Ace hardware owner's sons went thru our troop years ago, and people would fill up his lot - making it impossible for his customers to get into the store during the fair. So the boys keep a designated area open for customers only during business hours and the owner lets us use the rest of the lot (probably space for over 100 cars)for parking. We direct people and accept a donation for parking. we usually net $4000 - $6000 - unless it rains. During the fair parking, we started keeping bottled water in coolers for the boys and people wanted to buy it from us. So we stocked up and sell bottled water for $1 a bottle at fair parking, and at other events around town. At the 4th of July parade, our boys carried the flags in the parade. The ones that weren't in the parade, wore their troop T-shirts, put coolers in wagons and walked along the parade route (in 2's and 3's) selling water. It was a HUGE hit. We bought the water from Sam's Club At $.23 a bottle and sold it for $1. I have a BIG chest freezer and the church has a big refridgerator. So we chilled about 15 cases and I froze a few of them to keep the others cold. We sold EVERY LAST BOTTLE. I think we collected over $400 over the 4-5 hours of the parade route. The boys got to see the parade, and the Troop was visible ( in their T-shirts) to the community, providing a much wanted product for a reasonable price. Our town is the boyhood home of the author of the "Dick Tracey" comics. Every year we have a big celebration, parade and carnival. This year our troop manned a booth - we sold bottled pop, bottled water and snow cones. Snow cones in August are a HUGE profit maker! Our machines and supplies were supplied to the city (which set up the concessions to be run)by a local restaurant, the city set the prices ($2 for each drink or cone) We collected the money, paid the restauranteer for his supplies and the profit was ours to keep! we collected over $1300, the supplies cost less than $200. the only drawback was that it was not made clear to us that any unsold pop was ours - we would not have ordered more on sunday afternoon. We also ended up with leftover sno-cone syrup (opened bottles - they took back any sealed bottles)

ANOTHER new book? Gee! I know this is a non-profit organization and they need to pay for their stuff but if I have to buy new books all the time - well it's not only expensive, but what happened to saving trees and conservationism? Why don't they just put out the new requirements as suppliments? or make the books in 3 ring binder form and just re-issue pages as they are corrected instead of issuing whole new books? This idea is used for alot of technical, legal and employment manuals and works well. If the point is to update the requirements for the boys and get them out - a binder format would work better, (people could copy pages as needed and save paper) and be more economical and in keeping with the conservationist teachings of scouting. So much of BSA literature is redundant AND repetitive. They sure kill ALOT of trees!

We had this problem - slightly different - as we have a troop bus and all travel together. But we were finding that boys were leaving as soon as the bus arrived back at church, leaving a few to unload and clean the bus. this caused additional work - as often after long trips the buss was a mess and someone had to bring it back or leave it at the church and we would waste a monday meeting night cleaning the bus. Then too - by cleaning on Monday, boys who didn't even go on the outing got stuck cleaning, and some who went on the campout would deliberatly skip that meeting, as they knew it would be spent cleaning! but we solved it (mostly) this way - When our troop gives out flyers for a trip, they now state the time and place of departure and return and include the phrase "all boys are expected to stay until the bus is unloaded and all equipment cared for or returned to the Quartermaster." This same announcement was made at meetings until it became habit. Boys must talk to the SM or SPL if they have a reason to leave early or arrive late. If someone knows they must leave early for an appointment, family event or something, (which DOES happen, but not as early in the day as your Dad/son duo!) they are assigned duties to cover. Maybe their tent gets taken down and put in the bus before breakfast - and there's always a few things you are done with that they can pack up the first thing in the AM. that being said, Sometimes people HAVE to leave early, or arrive late. Luckily most of our people carry their weight and we don't have too many moochers. (with My troop, we have enough OTHER problems!) Maybe the next time they leave early, you should just ask them - "So, What time should I drop off all the tents to be aired out and cleaned? that's Johnny's job this weekend!" Good luck!

We have about 20 (all active) boys in our troop. 6 are not 1st class yet, about 3 of those are only a few requirements short. The rest are 1st class, star and 2 life scouts. That means we have a preponderance of boys that need "leadership" roles, and not enough roles to go around. In addition, we have 3 boys (Tenderfoot and 2nd class) who are moderately to severe ADHD / learning disabled and organizationally - they may likely never be capable of being a PL (my son among them) these three have been with the troop 2 - 3 years and are still working on their lower ranks. Are you saying that sometime, they HAVE to be PL's to get their Life rank? or can they do it by being a den cheif or something else? (I can see two of these boys being a den chief, or something that doesn't depend on organizational skills, but one barely speaks - I can't think of any "position of responsibility" he could take on that was not 'assigned by the SM')

We have a 3 ring binder that stays with the troop at all times - in the meeting house or on a trip - even trips to the city park (we meet there in the summer). We call it the "Trip essentials" book Each person in the troop has a clear page protector in it with the medical forms of all the adults and boys, with copies already made that we can give to camps and emergency people without giving up the originals. Each pocket also contains any info that we might need on a particular boy - a list of family phone numbers, relatives, work numbers, etc. it also had permission slips with "that weekend" numbers as mentioned above by the GS leader, Copies of the registration and ownership of all the troop vehicles ( bus & trailers) tour permits, Guide to safe scouting, itinerary, maps, registration info, receipts, contacts and any information needed for the trip maintaining this book is part of my job as activities coordinator for the troop - but it has made things SO much easier for eash trip. no worries about who has what, where? its ALL there! And only a small part has to be updated for each trip.

We have them in our council office - Blackhawk Area Council - Illinois and WI 815-397-0210 I got one over a year ago at a training session where they had a small trading post set up from the council office. They are really nice, if a little dark. The background is a waving American flag, and the words are "America is returning to the values Scouting never left" with the BSA logo to the right. They are made out of tough vinyl material, too - Mine still looks nice when another "God Bless America" one I put on at the same time had to be removed. I get alot of comments on it.

Merit badge cards are SUPPOSED to be used by all troops - but lets face it - we all know some who have their own way of dioing things. Still, It's a good idea to hold onto anything your son earns - We have a boy in our troop - working on his Eagle rank, who MAY NOT GET IT. Why? because of poor record keeping - a prior SM and Advancement chair didn't want to bother with the books and cards and the record of his STAR rank somehow never got to the council, despite his being awarded the rank badge. So the council is saying - how can he be working on Eagle when he's not a Star? (somehow, though, I do think they have the backup for his Life rank - we had our current Advancement chair for that - and he's AWESOME at keeping track of stuff.) the boy didn't keep his cards, and the troop didn't use the boys handbooks to record advancements, either. So now they are scrambling to "prove" his advancements so he can complete his Eagle before he turns 18. My son recently got a bunch of badges and an advancement in rank - and somehow his shirt went thru the wash with all of them in the pocket! LOL! Of course, the badges and pins came thru just fine, but the cards are mostly unreadable. Still, I'm saving them - the dates are readable. I did ask the advancement chair to write up a replacement rank advancement card - just in case. He laughed, but was happy to oblige.

The bus IS great in alot of ways - the comraderie it builds, esp on long trips, is great. Ours is an old tour bus (1979?) with storage bins underneath and racks on top for canoes. it has built-in tables with game boards, etc. -it's really a nice thing in alot of ways. BUT - it is sometimes tough finding/ keeping CDL licensed drivers who can drive it for us - right now we have two - possibly three and all three are unavailable right now for various reasons. The maintenence on the bus is sometimes expensive - brakes, repairs, inspections, GAS. one concern the troop comittee has is that financial records on the bus /equipment have not been well kept, and using the bus may be costing our boys more than it's worth. Certainly our habit of charging the boys $10 (or more) for every campout, (in addition to the many fundraisers we have) has something to do with some of the adults wanting to keep and maintain that bus and paying for the gas,etc. to run it. Some of us are thinking a trailer would be cheaper and easier to maintain. Another problem with the bus is parking and manuverability - it can't go where alot of cars/personal vehicles can. Even parking it at summer camp is tough - it's so big! and TALL. Last summer we almost got it stuck crossing a ditch into the field where we were told to park it. Most Camps will allow a trailer to be left on site, the bus can't even go back there. And once it's THERE - like at summer camp - if the driver doesn't stay for the whole week - we have no vehicle for emergencies. The original deal when the bus was purchased around 1989 - was that it was purchased for a group of troops that joined together for the purpoose of owning and maintaining the bus - somehow, it trickled down to our troop alone - and we now have the responsibility for it. We are blessed through our troops longevity and recognition in the area, to be supported by a number of local families and business. One, who has a tree farm and a big pole barn where he does alot of equipment work - lets us store all our trailers, the bus, etc out there in a field. He also lets us use his air hose and other tools when we need a quick fix for something. He is a true blessing, though his boys are now in their late 20's and early 30's he still maintains this tie with the troop. We have been working on finding and re-locating all our equipment out there - as some of it was kept elsewhere and "forgotten" or used by the caretakers who had it. All the rest of our equipment is stored in the quartermaster room at our CO church or in those semi-trailers that I mentioned that we have to clear out. Which is going to be quite a chore!

adventure ideas on the cheap? ok - survival - Take the boys out to a campsite with deliberately (or accidentally on purpose?) missing equipment. have them set up a survival camp - no tents - just shelter out of what they can scavenge. We recently did this on a winter campout and the boys LOVED it. Our troop owns it's own canoes and trailers - we plan and doing LOTS of canoe trips, as we spent time last summer getting the boys up to par on their paddling skills. our goal is the Wisconsin river - it has sandbars and islands that are just begging for campouts - they are not "owned" because they move - very slowly, over days, weeks, months - and you can paddle and camp for days on these islands going down this river. Lots of scout camps have reasonably priced high adventure trips available - have you looked into those? Caving is also real popular with our boys. As for troop equipment - Well it takes awhile to accumulate stuff - and sometimes a troop like ours, that has been around for over 85 yrs, has too much STUFF - and becomes a repository for all the stuff that wasn't quite bad enough to toss, but that people don't want to keep, either! We have some good equipment; a troop bus, various trailers for hauling bikes and canoes, the canoes themselves - but it is also a problem to maintain and REPLACE that stuff when needed. People get the perception that we have TONS of equipment - since the committee usually doesn't go on campouts - we have had a tough time getting across to them that alot of our "equipment" is junk. For example, our patrol boxes are literally plywood boxes in canvas backpacks - too heavy for one boy to carry - they sit on the ground and get wet and don't pack well - hard to see into them - and the stuff the boys really need - cooking pots, stoves, lanterns - don't fit into them! We have two HUGE Canvas tents (like the ones they rent for fairs and weddings?) - one of which we use at summer camp - but the thing is so darn heavy it takes about 4 MEN to put it up - and uses big stakes and ropes to hold it up - the boys can't pound them in - the stakes damage the ground (no "leave no trace" here!) and somebody gashes a shin on the things every summer. the new self- supporting shelters are much better! Right now, we have two old semi-trailers parked somewhere, full of JUNK, on a road thru-way that is scheduled to be built out in the next year or so. The trailers have been there for 10 - 20 yrs and we have to clean them out and get rid of the junk in them AND the trailers themselves. One is supposedly full of FIREWOOD. It's a mess. LauraT

you and I have alot in common - as i think we've noticed in the past - Single moms raising ADHD sons with little "Dad" involvement. My son is still in scouting, if sometimes reluctantly. he is approching his first class with only a few requirements left, though it has taken him almost two years. He also prefers camping and outdoors to the "schoolwork" of advancements and badges. However summer camp is awesome for him - he has a really good time there. And the knowledge he gains there helps himn in school. i truly believe, as hard as they are to deal with sometimes, that ADHD kids BELONG in scouting. It does so much for them and gives them a place where they can put that boundless energy to use, they feel accepted and successful.