Kudu

BrentAllen writes: I have to play Devil's Advocate here and ask how learning to tie a clove hitch is better at teaching citizenship than is earning the Citizenship MBs? The group dynamics of a boy-led Patrol building a monkey bridge (or otherwise facing the forces of nature as in 1916), do more to build Citizens than book-learning. You must notice that on your canoe trips. Sounds a little like school there to me. Study? Pass tests? Yes that is true, Brent. YMCA "boy work" theory did not allow Patrol Leaders or even "Scout Masters" to test their own Scouts, so they corrupted the term "Court of Honor" (aka PLC) to mean a battery of written and practical exams conducted by adults appointed by the local Council. See: http://inquiry.net/adult/methods/1st/064-Scout_Exams.htm However, on Feb. 7, 1916 there were only three Ranks and all the "study in order to pass certain tests of qualification" was 99% legitimate Scoutcraft. See: http://inquiry.net/advancement/tf-1st_require_1911.htm Kudu

dg98adams writes: respectfully ... childish ... bash ... backhand smacks Characterizing as "respectful" terms such as "childish," "bash" and "backhand smacks" is a perfect example of cult Wood Badge Logic. We certainly could afford to lose a couple of hours of business theory to teach something real like Wide Games at Wood Badge. I spent quite of bit of personal time and money as well as a commitment for Woodbadge Training... I spend an equal amount of personal time undoing the damage done to Traditional Scouting by dedicated "Woodbadge" Staffers like you. I apologize for hijacking the theme of this thread. I accept your apology. Kudu

Desertrat77 writes: Some of us learned "Confidence, Leadership skill, communication skills" outside of WB. "Confidence, leadership, and communication" is code for "no real content," like the corporate business manager skills that sold the world $7.36 trillion dollars worth of fake assets. Of course Wood Badge is just about the beads. If it wasn't they could teach their indoor CEO theory at the University of Scouting. Heck, I'd even be willing to call U of S "confidence" experts "Doctor" if Wood Badge Beads once again stood for real outdoor Patrol Leadership skills. Kudu

Lisabob writes: But there is wiggle room here to go either way. Not so, with laser and paintball, which are mentioned and prohibited by name. A strict application of Lisabob's "prohibition by name" would therefore allow electronic tag because it does NOT in fact use "lasers." High tech tag uses the same infrared technology found in TV remote control devices. The solution is obvious: Find out what "channel" triggers a hit on your local electronic tag establishment's sensors and have the Scouts bring their own infrared remote control devices from home. I'm sure that even Lisabob would agree that changing TV channels does not simulate the infliction of injury (beyond couch potato obesity). Problem solved. SMT224 writes: We have way too much to do with our camping program, service projects, and other Scout activities to even think about adding such a stupid activity. I am with SMT224 on this one. Scouts should outdoors. Period. Here again the solution is obvious: Shave a couple hours of indoor business manager theory from Wood Badge and get those indoor-loving adults outside to play a few real Scout Games: Wide Games! http://inquiry.net/outdoor/games/wide/index.htm Adults can not teach what they do not know. If the Cub Scout Wood Badge participants object, we could offer an indoor scissors and paste sock puppet alternative for them to take back to their feminized little cup cake darlings. Problem solved. Kudu

I can almost always pick out the young men who earned those badges as boy scouts because they already have a firm grounding in those topics Try staffing a monkey bridge at a Camporee and see how many Eagle Scouts have a "firm grounding" in how to tie a clove hitch. Not an actual lashing, mind you, but a simple clove hitch. Kudu

Here is a more relevant statistic: Maybe one percent (1%) of all BSA millionaires, members of the national advancement committee, and holders of four Wood Badge beads, know or care that Scouting was invented to teach one single aim, Citizenship, through practical, down and dirty, real-world membership in independent backwoods Patrols, and that Scouting was very specifically intended to be the exact opposite of classroom school instruction where all of those "branches of government" facts should be learned. In the place of real Patrols we offer Webelos III Dens for teenagers, and business manager theory that keeps Patrol Leaders out of the woods and tied to the apron strings of Scouting schoolmarms. Therefore it is reasonable to guess that 99% of all Scouting professionals and volunteers are functionally illiterate about the history of Scouting, a statistic about the adult understanding of applied Citizenship that is far more alarming that anything the Intercollegiate Studies Institute uncovered. If we offered real Scouting in the United States the "Outlook for Citizenship MBs" would summarized by a Wood Badge logo of an ax stuck in a wood school desk. Kudu

BrentAllen writes: The Congressional Charter authorized the BSA to adopt and amend bylaws and regulations, which the above is from. Yes, but Article 1, Section 7, Clause 1 states: "These Bylaws shall be consistent with the Charter. The Rules and Regulations shall be consistent with the Charter and the Bylaws. In the event of any conflicts or inconsistencies, the Charter shall govern primarily and the Bylaws secondarily." In other words, no matter how badly the BSA millionaires want to move the BSA away from camping and towards soccer and "making ethical choices," by law the BSA's "mission" is supposed to include camping using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916. There is an opportunity there for ambitious alternative "old-school" Scouting associations which (like the GSUSA) are perfectly willing to offer niche Scouting practices that the BSA no longer finds profitable. BrentAllen writes: BTW, we are still using methods in place in 1915. We camp in tents, hike, backpack, and canoe. And use the Patrol Method at summer camp. I admire your program. Nice canoe shot on your Website too. Kudu

Mafaking writes: I have the natural leader you described. He is a temperamental fella and has a somewhat anti-establishment attitude. The younger scouts gravitate to him like a mouth to a flame. He sits in the back grumbles a lot and makes fun of the adults. He used his sway to influence the elections away from his peers and adversaries toward the younger less capable scouts. He is now lord and master with no real POR. He controls the group but not through the formal organizational scheme. Yeah, that's your guy, the hooligan that Baden-Powell is talking about. Usually they have high IQs, adult-level verbal skills (which when used to make fun of adults get them plenty of detention time at school), and a natural sense of fairness when adults treat them as equals. Of course to harness his talent, a Scoutmaster must genuinely admire his obvious abilities and not try to use applied psychology on him. In the long run it is much easier to get a hooligan to act like a Boy Scout than it is to prop up some nice kid who always wears his Uniform correctly but has no idea how to handle 30 other boys. Mafaking writes: My current experience is that it is the 8th & 9th grader who make up the heart of the leadership group. Below eighth grade and they just aren't ready and above 9th and their interest is waning. I agree on the low end, but not the high end. Teenagers loose interest when the adults insist on monthly Webelos III camping. Mafaking writes: KudU as far as your other points: 1) Decouple POR Credit from Patrol Leadership: Not likely to happen. I would strongly expect some parent would be in the COR's face or calling their local council office, submitting that the troop has strayed away from the program. What program? Every Troop is different but there are plenty of ways to game your Troop's culture if you know what it is that you want. As long as everyone thinks of Patrol Leadership only in terms of six month POR credit, things are always going to suck. Period. No leadership secret is ever going to change that. Mafaking writes: 2) Be Active in Recruiting Leadership: I'll brush up on my straw man speeches. Forget the leadership speeches. Every gifted leader is different and the only thing that matters is what you say to each one of them individually. Mafaking writes: 3) Adventure: I know that the scouts are capable of planning their own trips (read my paintball comment). The trouble with the troop system is that the troop camps as a unit. That is why Baden-Powell kept the Patrols apart. How do you know that won't work unless you try it? Start with your best Patrol camped 30 feet from everyone else. You do not need to start with separate Patrol trips just to have an adventure. Mafaking writes: A 13 year old may be able to organize his 5-6 buddies to go on an outing... That is human nature. Everywhere Baden-Powell went in the world, from England, to India, to Africa, he observed that human boys group themselves into Patrol-sized units. ... but not a troop 5 times that size. That is not true. A gifted teenager can certainly handle 30 other boys. Just from your brief description, I'm sure that your "problem" Scout is perfectly capable of that. Mafaking writes: I'll have to assess how we plan trips to better provide the scouts with the opportunity to lead trips. No ownership no interests. Trips are nice, but monthly Troop camping is a perfect place to provide Scouts with that opportunity. Object of Camping The object of a camp is (a) to meet the boy's desire for the open-air life of the Scout, and (b) to put him completely in the hands of his Scoutmaster for a definite period for individual training in character and initiative and in physical and moral development. These objects are to a great extent lost if the camp be a big one. The only discipline that can there be earned out is the collective military form of discipline, which tends to destroy individuality and initiative instead of developing them; and, owing to there being too many boys for the ground, military drill has to a great extent to take the place of scouting practices and nature study. So it results that Scouts' camps should be small -- not more than one Troop camped together; and even then each Patrol should have its own separate tent at some distance (at least 100 yards) from the others. This latter is with a view to developing the responsibility of the Patrol Leader for his distinct unit. Baden-Powell

Mafaking writes: Why will troop elections often elevate one of the least qualified scouts into a position of responsibility? The answer should be obvious to anyone known as "Mafaking"! Baden-Powell sent to his publisher the final manuscript of his military book Aids to Scouting in the very last mail pouch to leave Mafeking before the siege. "The Siege of Mafeking was the most famous British action in the Second Boer War. It took place at the town of Mafeking in South Africa over a period of 217 days, from October 1899 to May 1900, and turned Robert Baden-Powell into a national hero" (wikipedia). Aids to Scouting became a best seller as British boys used it as a handbook to play army. When Baden-Powell returned from the Boer War he wrote a boy's version in which citizenship is taught through outdoor adventure in independent Patrols. To do that safely, the most qualified Scout must be Patrol Leader. In the real Patrol Method, he has real-world responsibilities similar to those of a lifeguard. To accomplish this Baden-Powell met with each Patrol and appointed the most qualified leader, balancing the recess impulses of boys against their shared desire for order and safety. In the United States, the Young Men's Christian Association organized a national monopoly on Scouting that taught citizenship in indoor adult-run Citizenship Merit Badge classes. The BSA Scoutmaster handbook warned adults not to give Patrol Leaders any responsibility what-so-ever: "Care should be taken by the Scout Master that the patrol leaders do not have too great authority in the supervision of their patrols. The success of the troop affairs and supervision of patrol progress is, in the last analysis, the responsibility of the Scout Master and not that of the patrol leader. There is also a danger, in magnifying the patrol leader in this way, of inordinately swelling the ordinary boy's head. The activities of the patrol should not be left to the judgment of any patrol leader, and if the Scout Master wants to delegate the work of the patrol and troop, the whole group should reach a decision in regard to the plan." See: http://inquiry.net/adult/methods/1st/index.htm Since BSA Patrol Leaders were systematically kept powerless, boys could hold elections to "practice democracy" and elevate the most popular but least qualified Scouts because in adult-led Scouting there is no downside to incompetent Patrol Leaders. After James West took over from the YMCA's Edgar M. Robinson, he introduced in the 1920s a watered-down version of Baden-Powell's Patrol System called the "Patrol Method." He appointed the young William Hillcourt to implement it. The BSA had systematically stamped out the Patrol System in the United States, but Hillcourt was able to bring to the task actual experience both as a Boy Scout Patrol Leader and then as a Scoutmaster in his native Denmark where Baden-Powell's Patrol System was still alive and well. Under Hillcourt, BSA Patrol Leaders were finally taught their real job: To organize their own hikes and overnights without adult supervision. It takes Hillcourt a thousand pages to describe the Scoutmaster's role in all of this, but the "Patrol Method" session of the current Scoutmaster-specific training course does not even once mention a Patrol Leader! So if you are at all serious about Patrol Leader competency you should purchase Hillcourt's two volume Handbook for Scoutmasters to see how it is done. You can find used copies for less than $10 per volume at AddAll. IMPORTANT: To find the correct edition, look for "Volume 1" or "Volume 2" in the description, starting on "page 2" of the following URL! http://tinyurl.com/5sjvz3 If you read between the lines, both Lisabob and Venividi point to the real reason for incompetency: Position of Responsibility (POR) requirements. POR requirements were introduced the year Hillcourt retired. Leadership Development experts gutted Hillcourt's life work and lumped Patrol Leaders together with Librarians and Buglers to teach them business manager theory in place of Hillcourt's position-specific Patrol Leader Training course: http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm You may have noticed that Lifeguard is not listed as a POR even though it is the only remaining position of actual real-world responsibility that the vast majority of Scouts ever see. To understand how POR requirements work to destroy the Patrol Method, simply imagine what would happen if we elected and trained Lifeguards the way we do Patrol Leaders. So you have a big decision to make: Do you agree with the anti-Baden-Powell & anti-William Hillcourt modernists that the purpose of the Patrol Method is to teach management hyped as "leadership," or do you see the position of Patrol Leader as similar to that of Lifeguard: A competent gatekeeper to safe adventure? If you hold the old-school safe adventure position, then you can get there in three steps: 1) Decouple POR Credit from Patrol Leadership: The most important route to competency and the order and structure that both you and the Scouts crave is to decouple the position of Patrol Leader from 6 month POR credit. The quickest way to do that is to "forget" to hold regular elections. Every Troop culture is different, but usually it is the adults who drive the hype and artificial enthusiasm of all that rah-rah stuff. Before specific POR requirements were invented, there was no such thing as regular six month "Troop Elections." A Patrol elected a new leader when it needed one, and the Patrol Leaders in turn selected an SPL only if and when they needed one. There is still no BSA regulation that requires regular Troop-wide elections (or SPLs, for that matter). 2) Be Active in Recruiting Leadership: You must follow through on "The scouts I would like to see elected are the more mature scouts." To do that talk to the mature Scouts on a regular basis and be honest and persistent about what you want and why you need their talent. Sometimes I just ask point blank, "What would it take to get you to run for Patrol Leader?" Point out the problems in their Patrols and ask them individually for advice, in private at first and then in front of the other Scouts so that everyone notices whose judgement you consider to be worthwhile. When an incompetent Patrol Leader gets tired of the job, and you have meanwhile convinced the the most mature Scout to run, then visit the Patrol and discuss what you as Scoutmaster consider to be important qualities in their choice of a new Patrol Leader. If you are active rather than passive about competent leadership, a Patrol will usually make what you consider to be the correct choice. In a perfect world, nobody would want to be SPL and you could leave the position empty. Baden-Powell considered it optional. One of the Patrol Leaders can always fill in when they need someone to coordinate things at a campout or an indoor meeting. If the Patrol Leaders decide they need an SPL, then the second best situation is to get a big blow-hard to serve as SPL. A second-rate leader who understands that his job is to do what the Patrol Leaders have decided to do is perfect. Always make it clear that the Patrol Leaders, not the SPL, run the Troop, and the Patrol Leaders always have more votes in a PLC. The reason for big puppet SPLs is that in most groups of 25 Scouts there is seldom more than one exceptionally gifted natural leader (In an adult-run Troop with regular elections, he is usually the ringleader of the disruptive older Scouts in the back of the room). If the very best natural leader is one of the Patrol Leaders, then the other Patrol Leaders will compete to make their Patrols as good as his once they see from his example how a Patrol is supposed to work. If you have one good Patrol Leader, then testosterone works much better than EDGE theory. Sooner or later, however, in a competency-based Troop the best leader usually wants to be SPL. Then your Patrol Leaders will usually let him run the Troop and the Troop will shift around from competitive Patrol Leaders to the Troop Method where the SPL calls the shots. That can be fun too if you allow the SPL to assume a position as one of your de facto Assistant Scoutmasters. A talented teen-aged natural leader is far superior to most adult volunteers except for experience and judgement. 3) Adventure: If Lifeguard was a POR, then we would have to either allow accidental drownings to show the Scouts the downside of popularity contests, OR dumb swimming down to baby pools just like Leadership Development has done to "modern" Patrol camping where most Patrols of teenagers now camp close together, Cub Scout style. So if your Lifeguards were trained with EDGE theory, how would you ever trust them with Scouts in water over their heads? The same way you should introduce the adventure of Patrol Camping back into the Boy Scout program: Gradually. A good compromise with the very high standard of leadership before "Leadership Development" was invented, is to postpone Hillcourt's definition of a BSA "Real Patrol" (one that hikes and camps once or twice a month without adult supervision). Instead, use Baden-Powell's standard for multi-Patrol camping: a minimum of 300 feet between Patrols. I usually start a Patrol at 30 feet (10% of B-P's minimum standard) and gradually allow the more competent Patrols to camp a little further away each month as they prove their maturity and finally reach the minimum 300 feet. The point of 300 feet is not to keep adults from interfering. The point of separating the Patrols is to provide adventure. Kudu One of our methods in the Scout movement for taming a hooligan is to appoint him head of a Patrol. He has all the necessary initiative, the spirit and the magnetism for leadership, and when responsibility is thus put upon him it gives him the outlet he needs for his exuberance of activity, but gives it in a right direction. --Baden-Powell, from the article "Are Our Boys Degenerating?" circa 1918 (This message has been edited by Kudu)

Teaching our youth to make moral and ethical decisions is our mission. How we go about teaching our youth may vary, but that is the mission of the BSA - not teaching how to camp. The Congressional Charter, the ultimate legal authority on this matter, is very clear that the true "mission" of the BSA includes training in Scoutcraft (how to camp): Sec. 30902. Purposes The purposes of the corporation are to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916.

What a bunch of whiners. The Young Men's Christian Association set up a government-enforced national monopoly of Scouting for a reason. They did not like real Scouting, and if most of us were honest we would admit that we do not like real Scouting either. Troop bylaws, Boards of Review, Scoutmaster Conferences, Scout Spirit requirements, POR requirements, regular election cycles, schoolwork Merit Badges, business manger Wood Badge, the Patrol Method as described in Scoutmaster-specific training, Cub Scout camping for teenagers (where Patrols set up less than 300 feet from each other), anti-Patrol Method dining halls at summer camp, and "Once an Eagle, always an Eagle" awards for males who have never walked into the woods with packs on their backs, are all uniquely American inventions that keep BSA Troops adult-run as the YMCA intended. These program elements are the exact opposite of Baden-Powell's Scouting: Not "different" from Baden-Powell's Scouting but the exact opposite. Most red-blooded American boys hate the opposite of Scouting so much that Chief Scout Executive Robert Mazzuca is currently on a media blitz to violate the terms of our Congressional Charter and move the BSA away from camping and towards "family soccer:" http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/#29491940 If you love the opposite of Scouting (and what adult control-freak would not?) then suck it up, walk it off, and write to your elected representatives to thank Congress for its opposition to the free market and its choice of the BSA as our national Scouting corporation. Then in the spirit of socialized Scouting, ask them to support our Chief Scout Executive with a "Centennial Congressional Charter" that gives the BSA a monopoly on the now-popular word "Soccer," just as they did for the once-far-more-popular word "Scouting." Just think of what the BSA Guide to Safe Soccer will do to make boys hate government-sanctioned Soccer (no running or kicking!) as much as they now hate government-sanctioned Scouting! Real Baden-Powell Scout Games have always been about Boy Scouts pretending to take the lives of other Boy Scouts, and you don't need expensive toys or dark indoor venues to play them. Baden-Powell's "BOMB-LAYING" is a typical Wide Game. In his words: "Each Scout wears his life, i.e. scarf, tie, or piece of tape, in the back of his belt as a tail, so that it can easily be pulled out.... A Scout is killed when an opponent snatches his life from his belt, and when dead he can take no further part in the game, but must make his way quickly to a definite piece of neutral ground agreed upon before beginning the game... When the cover is good it is often possible to kill a Scout without his noticing it, and when after carefully planting the bomb the owner discovers he is dead, his feelings are better imagined than described...If a Scout who has laid his bomb is caught on the return journey, he can be taken back to the captor's camp and made to remove his bomb, and then killed." Some Wide Games have game-extending provisions for returning to a central area to get new "lives" so that a Scout may return to the game to "kill" or be "killed" again! B-P's "Bomb Laying" is only one of 84 Boy Scout Wide Games at The Inquiry Net: http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/games/wide/ For outdoor tracking & stalking skills, see: http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/skills/tracking For additional stalking games, see: http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/games/ripley/stalking Baden-Powell winter war games can be adapted to summer by substituting pine cones or tennis balls for the snowball hand grenades: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/winter/activities/games Be sure to check out the other politically incorrect Boy Scout Games: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/games Kudu

Eagle1982 writes: So, it's interesting the Scout Oath doesn't go "Physically fit, mentally awake and LEGALLY straight", but rather says "Morally Straight". It is also interesting that the Young Men's Christian Association was able to impose their foundational trinity ("healthy body, healthy mind, healthy spirit") on the American version of Baden-Powell's Scout Promise in the first place. The YMCA was rabidly opposed to Baden-Powell's two most basic tenants of Scouting: That Scouting is the opposite of school, and that a Scout Troop is run by the most competent Patrol Leaders, not the adults. Unless pornography is so rife in PeteM's Troop that it is not only oozing out of the tents at campouts but also being "found" at weekly Troop meetings, then perhaps this thread is merely a cutting-edge excuse for adults to invent more bylaws: How would you handle pornography found at meetings/campouts? ... Does your pack/troop/crew have a no pornography policy? How would you handle this, other than banning these electronic devices? Troop bylaws, along with Boards of Review, Scoutmaster Conferences, Scout Spirit requirements, PORs (regular election cycles), and schoolwork Merit Badges, are all American inventions that keep BSA Troops adult-run as the YMCA intended. This obsession over the moral or legal ramifications of what might be locked away in some Scout's cell phone is just a new subset of adult micromanagement. Eagle1982 writes: I mean, in light of the story above, doesn't it just make you want to be a teen again? I do know that some girls were doing it for boys back in 1962. The idea that human beings changed recently is the cornerstone of the 44 year movement to dumb Scouting down to the business manager level. In fact since he assumed office, the Chief Scout Executive has been conducting a media blitz praising Leadership Development and explaining why Scouting must switch from camping to computers, aerospace, and soccer so that modern boys can benefit from "sitting side by side with adults of character." It is true that soccer is more "popular" with "today's youth" than Scouting, but when Leadership Development gets done doing to soccer what it did to the Patrol Method, "modern boys" are going to hate soccer just as much as they hate post-Hillcourt Scouting. Scouter.Com is dedicated to Green Bar Bill. If a Troop is using his Patrol Method rather than the Leadership Development version of the "Patrol Method," its Scouters will be less concerned with banning electronics (in order to preserve the pristine wilderness experience for Scouts who are always 2-20 feet from the nearest hovering adult), and more involved in guiding Scouts to select the "right sort" of Patrol Leader to run their Patrol while it hikes and camps at least 300 feet from everyone else, as Baden-Powell suggested. Kudu

I wish I could remember where I heard that story from to give the author proper credit. Most likely the source was one of those viral Emails that ends with the words "Think about it." You can credit Kudu for the alternative ending: The younger brother was a very practical boy. From the day as a younger child he helped his mom "devein" shrimps for a Christmas party until the time when he could field dress his own kills, he observed that keeping poop out of meat requires a level of effort most likely beyond the standards of factory processed food. Likewise he observed that grains always include trace amounts of insect and rodent waste, and fresh fruits and vegetables routinely make headlines as the carriers of E. coli. Therefore, reasoned the worldly boy, everyone eats a little poop every day. The older brother was the more philosophical of the two. His father's assertion that inappropriate content stays with the beholder forever, reminded him of the parable of the two Buddhist monks who come upon a woman who needs help to cross a river. The rules of their monastery strictly forbid any physical contact with the opposite sex, but without thinking the older monk picks the woman up and carries her across the river. As the day passes the younger monk becomes more and more agitated until finally the older monk asks if he is OK. "What do you mean?" answers the younger monk in anger, "You violated our precepts by touching that woman!" The older monk replies, "I set her down miles ago, but you are vexed because you still carry her in your mind" So for very different reasons both brothers eat a brownie thereby affirming the reasoning that they had presented for viewing the movie. Sure enough, as their father predicted, neither of them suffers any ill effects! The parents are surprised to discover that their sons' logic is so earnest, but they now have no choice but to honor the terms of the agreement. The victorious boys go see the movie. They discover that its excellent reputation is due to the portrayal of truth strengthened rather than diminished by rising above the events portrayed in the minor negative scenes. Because it is based on tested faith, the positive message becomes a significant influence on the lives of both brothers. On a far more immediate level the boys inspire the fear and awe of their peers as a result of the impeccable bragging rights of having accepted their parent's outrageous dare. The moral of the story is never swallow the assumptions of moral absolutists who are willing to feed you crap just to prove their point. Kudu (This message has been edited by Kudu)

How big were the brownies?

Eamonn writes: The Patrol Method is covered in the Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Specific Training. Read the course outline. "Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Specific Training" uses the term "Patrol Method" to refer to adult leadership styles. Really. One of its examples of the "Patrol Method" is an adult telling random Scouts when it is time to put out the campfire. How can cutting their Patrol Leader out possibly be an example of the Patrol Method? That might be a rewarding opportunity for the adult to practice his or her awesome "leadership" skills, but in even the most adult-led Troop, the "Patrol Method" would mean that an adult would tell the Patrol Leader or SPL of those random Scouts when it is time to put out the campfire. "The 'Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Specific Training' Patrol Method session NEVER mentions a Patrol Leader, and it NEVER uses the word 'Patrol' without insisting that a Patrol is the same as a Troop." The pathology of Leadership Development is that a holder of the Wood Badge might understand each of those words individually, but he or she can not understand the significance of the sentence. Eamonn writes: The Patrol Method is used at the Introduction To Outdoor skills and at Wood Badge Courses. Read the course outline. A Council can arrange the participants into Patrols if it wants, but that is not part of the official course. In fact on page 7 under "Training Techniques" it advises that the buddy system is the organizing principle for IOLS. Likewise the Course Evaluation form asks participants for feedback on the buddy system, not the Patrol Method. Eamonn writes: I'm not sure what more you might want? The job description for "Patrol Leader" should be about Scoutcraft adventure rather than Wood Badge manager theory. Kudu

Eamonn writes: I took Wood Badge at Gilwell Park back in the early 1970's. I know that we didn't camp with each patrol 300 away from each of the other patrols. But you are aware that Baden-Powell suggested that Boy Scout Patrols should camp no closer than 300 feet. Gilwell Park was a donation and it was not perfect. However, Wood Badge in the United States seems to have commonly conformed to Baden-Powell's specifications. Eamonn writes: I'm not sure how a thread about two courses can end up talking about a book that never was part of either course? The course outline for position-specific training is certainly relevant because it is the justification for changing Wood Badge to meet the needs of Cub Scouts. Likewise, in most Councils the Staffers for these position-specific courses are usually holders of the Wood Badge. No holder of the Wood Badge seems able to perceive (or possibly to care) that the Patrol Leader is missing from the Patrol Method, and/or that the Patrol Method session defines Patrols as being the same as Troops. I have brought this up many times over the years in this and other forums, enough times for people to say that I always say the same things. It is not unreasonable to guess that at least 10,000 Scouters have read it. It is interesting that on a Website dedicated to the man commonly credited for the long-overdue creation of the Patrol Method in the United States, that no person has ever said, "Gee maybe the Patrol Leader should be part of the Patrol Method session." That is why Leadership Development is a pathology. Kudu

Eamonn writes: What is worse or missing? The ability to perceive when something of value is missing. Eamonn writes:' What do you think is better? This is surprisingly easy to measure objectively for yourself. Simply prepare an "important Scouting research" questionnaire to be given at a local Roundtable, University of Scouting (UoS), or other setting in which participants are likely to welcome it. The questionnaire should ask which Wood Badge courses the person has taken (if any), how many years he or she has volunteered as an adult, what leadership courses he or she has taken for work, etc.. It should state that the answers to the questions should be based ONLY on the information read in this session. Have a talented speaker read the "Patrol Method" session from "SM & ASM specific training" exactly as it appears in the course outline. Do not add or subtract a single word. Stress again verbally that this test is about ONLY the information conveyed during this session. The questionnaire should have a number of "Leadership Development" style questions with "None of the above" as a possible answer for every question. Among all these leadership theory questions are "trick questions" mixed in to see who is able to perceive that something of value, both the Patrol Leader and the Patrol itself, is missing from the Patrol Method session. These trick questions would be along the lines of The Patrol Leader reports directly to a) The SPL, b) The ASPL, c) The Scoutmaster, d) None of the above When a Scout asks you a question, you should tell him to a) Ask his Patrol Leader, b) Ask his SPL, c) Ask his Scoutmaster d) None of the above A Patrol is: a) What a Troop is divided into b) The primary unit in the Boy Scout program c) A convenient work group for teaching leadership d) None of the above The ideal number of Scouts per Patrol is: a) 6 b) 8 c) 10 d) None of the above And so on. The correct answer for all of these trick questions is, of course, "d) None of the above," because the Patrol Method session NEVER mentions a Patrol Leader, and the Patrol Method session NEVER mentions a Patrol (without insisting that it is the same thing as a Troop). My guess is that no person who has taken the new Wood Badge would perceive that the most valuable parts of the Patrol Method (the Patrol Leader and the Patrol itself) are missing from the Patrol Method session. In fact, if you could test 1,000 Course Directors I doubt if any of them would notice either. I do agree with Eamonn that there is not really much functional difference in the two Wood Badge courses. The percentage of participants who could perceive that the Patrol Leader is missing from the Patrol Method might be about the same. The problem seems to be leadership theory itself, not what brand it is. Most Wood Badge courses (at least in the past) separated the Patrols at close to the distance that Baden-Powell recommended (300 feet), but is there a holder of the Wood Badge in the entire United States who took that home with him to his own Troop? Probably not, and the reason I think is that no Course Director or SPL would ever point it out as important. That is because it does not illustrate some point of an abstract leadership theory. If only a small part of Wood Badge included "See how far your Patrols are spaced from each other? That is Baden-Powell's Patrol System. Try it with your Troop, if only once," then all this confusion about what is 'boy-led' would be gone. The same is true for the Patrol Hike and Patrol Overnight that Hillcourt added to Wood Badge. When I took Wood Badge our Patrol Hike was a treasure hunt that ended up at our Patrol's campsite for the night. We had no idea where the other Patrols were camped, because they were spread out over the entire range of the Council's largest camp. If only Wood Badge had spent 40 or 50 seconds the next day explaining "That Patrol Overnight that you did last night, well that is the Patrol Method. That is what Patrols do. Write that down." But as I remember the course, a Staffer would show up and challenge our Patrol to some activity. Then afterward he would sit in his folding chair and say something mysterious about one of the 11 Leadership Skills. I had memorized the 11 Skills before the course, so I knew what he was driving at, but my interest was in the physical stuff that Patrols do, not how it is an illustration of some theory. I don't remember which of the "11 Skills" the Patrol Overnight was supposed to represent. But rather than abstract theory, Wood Badge Patrol spacing and Wood Badge Patrol Overnights should be presented as actual widgets. Something real in the increasingly gray world of "21st Century Scouting." As I alluded to in the parent thread, magical thinking seems to be a result of leadership training in general, and not just a problem with the Wood Badge brand. Why is it that trained "leaders" can not perceive when something of value is missing? This correlation also appears to be about 100% in the corporate world, from which (depending on which way the wind blows) Wood Badge is said to be taken. According to recent reports, the global stock markets lost $30.1 trillion dollars in 2008. If we can assume that every corporate millionaire executive has taken a "leadership" course, then I wonder just how pathological leadership theory is. Why did nobody notice that his or her corporation's share of that 30.1 trillion dollars of value was not real? If we were able to conduct a brain-storming session in which leadership training was presented as a pathology, I suspect that peer-pressure would emerge as one of the contributing factors to the inability of leadership experts to notice when the most basic things are missing. What holder of the Wood Badge would ever dare mention that in his interviews the Chief Scout Executive cuts the Patrol Leader out of his examples of Scouting as just "sitting side by side with adults of character"? Another aspect of leadership theory as a pathology is the elevation of "values" and "ethics" over real things. Just when did corporations invent mission statements? My guess is that companies started to define their mission as "values" around the time that America stopped actually making stuff. The BSA's Congressional Charter defines our product as generated from teaching Scoutcraft the way it was practiced in 1916, but leadership experts seem to prefer a mission statement about "values" and "ethical choices" alone. If we were to examine the mission statements of all the failed corporations, I bet they all focused on "values" and "ethics" too. In a perfect world, corporate mission statements would be more like the BSA's Congressional Charter. They would talk about actual objective standards: "The mission of the XYZ Corporation is to import Widgets made to the following specifications...." Kudu

AMulls writes: Granted, I'm not up on my history of the Scout Oath, but I'm guessing it was around looong before the Patrol Method went out of style... AMulls is correct, turning Scouting into school was the original meaning of "mentally awake." The YMCA was an early adapter of the new outdoor game for boys called "Scouting," created only 17 years after their own invention of the game of "basketball." Remember, Baden-Powell first wrote Scouting for Boys as a pastime that could be played by already-existing youth organizations such as the UK's "Boys' Brigade" and the YMCA. They could adapt the game freely as they saw fit because there was no controlling authority or "headquarters," any more than for the game of "tag." "The YMCA had been founded on June 6, 1844 in London, England, by George Williams. The original intention of the organization was to put Christian principles into practice. Young men who came to London for work were often living in squalid and unsafe conditions, and the YMCA was dedicated to replacing life on the streets with prayer and bible study. The YMCA idea, which began among evangelicals, was unusual because it crossed the rigid lines that separated all the different churches and social classes in England in those days. The YMCA used a holistic approach to individual and social development encompassing spiritual, intellectual and physical methods. This approach is symbolized by the inverse red triangle used by YMCAs around the world representing the YMCA mission of building a healthy body, mind, and spirit" (wikipedia.org). You might recognize this YMCA foundational trinity ("healthy body, healthy mind, healthy spirit") as the three points ("physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight") that the YMCA added to the three points of Baden-Powell's Promise (1. Duty to God & country; 2. To help other people at all times; 3. To obey the Scout Law). The combination of these six points required the BSA to redefine its "three points" as 1) duty to God & Country, 2) duty to others, and 3) duty to self). The YMCA shared with Baden-Powell both the target of meeting social need in the community ("To help other people at all times,") and the very radical (for its time) blurring of the rigid lines that separated social classes (as in B-P's wording for the fourth Scout Law: "A Scout is a friend to all, and a brother to every other Scout, no mater to what social class the other belongs"). Where they differed was on "healthy mind" and the "Patrol System." For Baden-Powell "healthy mind" was mental alertness, represented by the motto for his invention, the South African Constabulary: "Be Prepared." When asked "be prepared for what?" he jokingly replied "oh, for any old thing!" He advised that in whatever situation you find yourself, always look around and note, "What can go wrong here?". In his military reconnaissance book, Aids to Scouting, B-P developed mental preparedness through training games. These observation games have been eliminated from our requirements, but the BSA once included his signaling, tracking, and the one requirement that my dad remembered 75 years later "describe satisfactorily the contents of one store window out of four observed for one minute each" ("Kim's Game"). In Boy Scouting, more advanced Scoutcraft skills were introduced in "Proficiency Badges," which B-P in turn had borrowed from Ernest Seton. See: http://inquiry.net/advancement/coups/degrees/index.htm Baden-Powell's Proficiency Badges were all a progression from the basic "hands on" skills learned in becoming a First Class Scout. They represented B-P's two spiritual approaches to Scouting: skills for Service to Others (such as first aid, etc) which he called "Practical Christianity" (the badges for which were worn on the left side of the Boy Scout uniform); and Scoutcraft skills which he called the "Religion of the Backwoods" (worn on the right side of the uniform). See: http://inquiry.net/uniforms/traditional/placement.htm http://inquiry.net/ideals/b-p/backwoods.htm As the name implies, a Scout could only wear the badges for which he was currently "proficient," re-certified on a regular basis by outside experts or agencies. A King's Scout was required to surrender his badge if he did not renew all of his Proficiency Badges on a regular basis (no "Once an Eagle, Always an Eagle")! Baden-Powell made a very sharp distinction between Scouting's strictly hands-on ("boy-friendly") form of learning which he called "education," and its exact opposite (schoolwork), which he defined as "instruction." For an example of the benefits of Scouting "education" as opposed to church school "instruction" in the development of reverence, see: http://inquiry.net/traditional/b-p/scoutmastership/service.htm The YMCA approach to "healthy mind," however, was educational instruction. The YMCA created many colleges and universities, but more relevant to our "Merit Badges" was the YMCA's pioneering of the concept of night school, providing academic self-improvement opportunities for people with full-time employment. Many boys involved in Scouting in 1910 had already quit school to earn a living, so perhaps B-P's Proficiency Badge system could be replaced with the YMCA's educational model. The central concept of "current Proficiency" was discarded (once you earned a badge you were done with it), existing badges became more bookish, the "Aims" of the game were translated into school work (Citizenship Merit Badges, for instance), and a whole new class of "night school" vocational badges were introduced through which a Scout could be introduced to potential occupations. AMulls, I'm sure that you applaud this as "doing things we don't want to do in order to better ourselves." As you write, "It also means being a good person and citizen. Those "homework" MBs that most scouts dread, do accomplish this. And, as I highlighted above, also help them to keep mentally awake." But the problem facing the YMCA in 1909 was identical to the problem facing the BSA in 2009! As you may have heard, the current Chief Scout Executive wants to de-emphasize camping and instead extend soccer from Cub Scouts into the Boy Scout program. But word gets around pretty quickly. Why let adults force you to do things you absolutely dread, if a free market exists that allows groups to play the game the way it is played in the rest of the world? How can the BSA turn soccer into school if NONE of the competing soccer associations force boys into classroom work, office manager school, and job interviews called "boards of review"? The answer in one word: "Monopoly"! In 1909 Scouting was very popular, just as soccer is now. Countless unaffiliated Patrols and Troops sprung up all over the United States, plus six (6) budding national Scouting associations including publisher William R. Hearst's "American Boy Scout" (later the "United States Boy Scout"); publisher William D. Boyce's "Boy Scouts of America," the National Highway Protection Association's "Boy Scouts of the United States;" "The Peace Scouts of California;" the "National Scouts of America," formed by a military school in Manlius, NY, and, of course, "The YMCA Scouts". The YMCA Scouts were well positioned to turn Scouting into school because of their already-existing infrastructure, including "bricks and mortar" centers staffed by trained experts on adult-led "boy work." However, the YMCA in those days was evangelical Protestant and this would be problematic in establishing a united national monopoly of Scouting. According to legend, William D. Boyce had not even heard of Boy Scouting until his chance encounter with an "Unknown Scout" in the London fog. He had incorporated the Boy Scouts of America in February, but by April he had already decided it was a mistake. So on May 3rd, 1910, Edgar M. Robinson (Senior Secretary of the YMCA's "Committee on Boys' Work"), and J. A. Van Dis (Boy's Work Secretary of the State YMCA of Michigan), approached Boyce to suggest their cooperation in building a national monopoly of Scouting in the United States: "They explained to him the Scouting situation, as it then existed; that various groups and individuals in different parts of the country were aspiring to national leadership, and that some of these were more desirable than others (William Murray, The History of the Boy Scouts of America, BSA, New York, 1937). "Mr. Boyce told them of the efforts he had made and the money he had spent in trying to promote the Scout Movement and that he had been bitterly disappointed in the results." Robinson persuaded Boyce to appoint him managing director of the BSA, and the rest, as they say, is history Kudu (This message has been edited by Kudu)

I'm glad you approve. When Leadership Development became a "Method of Scouting" in 1972, the first thing it did was cancel the specialized training course for Patrol Leaders. Now the training course for Scoutmasters has cut the Patrol Leader out of the "Patrol Method" session entirely. In a perfect world someone with solid fiscal conservative credentials would take a long, hard look at corporate leadership training as it is reflected in the loss of tens of thousands of dollars from his or her personal retirement account, and then decide to do some research: Is the magical thinking in which you can strip a Patrol Leader of his six month position-specific training course and then remove any mention of him from his Scoutmaster's Patrol Method training session, unique to the Boy Scouts of America or is this style of leadership hype responsible for the corporate bankruptcy of the entire world? Kudu

Also, I got training reimbursement from my employer because Wood Badge is based on Dr. Ken Blanchard's leadership training materials.

OK, let the record show that TwoCubDad brought up Wood Badge three times before I responded. Ad hominem attacks are one of the only three possible outcomes when Wood Badge Logic encounters traditional practices such as a Patrol Leader telling the Scouters in a Patrol Leader meeting which of his Scouts are now Second Class. Presumably the Patrol Leaders require the adults to be in full uniform, to bring their handbooks, and to respect their authority. ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the source making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. Perhaps Wood Badge could add it to the syllabus in a "Recognize, Resist, Report" format: Recognize: "Am I angry?" "Am I using the word 'you'?" Resist: Compose your posts using software that allows you to save them overnight and review them later when you are calm (This has the added advantage of not seeing your posts dissolve when you hit "submit" on the quirky Scouter.Com server). Report: Use "me" statements rather than "you" statements to report your feelings: "When I encounter ideas that contradict Wood Badge it makes me feel 'weary' and 'sarcastic'." Likewise, when others attack your personality to distract everyone away from your ideas, simply report objectively "This is an ad hominem attack." Let the healing begin! Kudu

Twocubdad, what exactly have you yourself contributed to this discussion that hasn't been said a thousand times before? #1 -- Scouting is adult-run ("I will allow there is some element of discipline and teaching responsibility here"). #2 -- Scouting is an office job ("Would you show up for a job interview without your resume or application?"). #3 -- Scouting is school ("Maybe you could keep your handbook in your school bookbag"). Twocubdad writes: Kudu -- have you heard the old story about the prisoners who were in the same cell block Oh? How many times have I already quoted the Owls Patrol Leader informing the Scoutmaster that two of his Patrol Members are now Second Class Scouts? How about the example of what happens without Boards of Review, where the advancement standards are such that the worst Patrol Leader in the entire Troop still manages to organize his own eight mile hikes for eight months? I submit that these examples of actual "boy-run" Scouting are so new to most of us, that they can serve as analogies to the "bigger picture" just as fresh as images of "lost keys" or "underwear." The reason for your personal attack is that you simply do not have an answer for any of the questions that I present, so you hold my personality up for ridicule as if it is self-evident (for instance), that members of an organization with the stated Aims of "Character" and "Citizenship in the Nation" should simply ignore an obvious violation of an Act of Congress and type out the so-called "Mission Statement" 9,980 times (according to Google). To be fair, I will concede that you have indeed come up with a more descriptive term for the BSA Mission Statement than I ever have: "Number Two" Kudu (This message has been edited by Kudu)

Baden-Powell said that Scouting should be run by the Patrol Leaders and that it should be the exact opposite of school. I guess that is why we make up fake Baden-Powell quotes for our official publications, such as "Scouting is a Game with a Purpose." The "Purpose" of Boards of Review, Scoutmaster Conferences, Scout Spirit requirements, and six month PORs is to keep Scouting adult-run and make it more like school. If BSA Scouting was based on Baden-Powell's Patrol System (as the fake quotes imply), Scouters would first hear that a Scout had already advanced in rank from his Patrol Leader. For an example of how that works in practice, See: http://inquiry.net/patrol/court_honor/coh_session.htm Patrol Leader Owls: We're pretty good. Since the last meeting two of my Patrol have gained their Second Class; we held one Patrol Meeting, part of which was spent repairing the Patrol Den bookcase and part of which we gave over to mending our buzzer equipment and then practicing with it. We had a full turn out. Note that in the following exchange about the Troop's "advancement" standards, there is no mention of business manger EDGE theory, job interviews, business resumes, or the importance of school books: Patrol Leader Woodpeckers: The two recruits we had from the Pack aren't bad; they have both done fire-lighting and cooking. I always try to get this testing through in the winter so that they can get real experience. Troop Leader (TL = SPL): Well, that's nothing to boast about; its Troop tradition anyway, but I am glad you are carrying it out for a change. PL Woodpeckers: We haven't had a proper Patrol Meeting, except that we went on a hike a fortnight ago; all present except three. We went about eight miles and explored the old mill. PL Owls: It's about time you found another hike route; you've been reporting about the old mill for the last eight months. TL: Well, perhaps you can offer him one of your more imaginative hikes. I wonder how many of us have ever had the opportunity to be embarrassed because our worst Patrol Leader hikes his Patrol eight miles to the old mill every month? Gee, eight months to the same location? Where did I as a Scoutmaster go wrong? Kudu

Daddy_O writes: So, is there a website, or a spreadsheet which shows data, such as: *troops that graduate the most Eagle Scouts *Highest percent of Scouts earning the Eagle rank Yes, in a perfect world you could plug into ScoutNet (perhaps a prototype of SkyNet) and plot the highest ratio of Scouts earning Eagle against the least number of filed tour permits. That last statistic is very important because it is the proper definition of an Eagle Mill. The last thing you want to do is blunder into a Troop with a very high ratio of Eagle Scouts only to discover that they do it by camping twice a month! You did not comment on my advice to go to a Roundtable and ask the District Executives and/or Commissioners in your Council. Was it because I neglected to explain the words "Roundtable," "District Executives," and "Commissioners"? Basically, Roundtables are big monthly "informational" meetings. District Executives and Commissioners are the ones who run around with silver tabs on their shoulders. These are the "official" people who know where the Eagle Mills in your area are hidden. Consider a custom T-shirt for Roundtable that reads "The BSA is NOT a Camping Club!" as a conversation starter. To double the impact, print the "Mission Statement" on the back. And how about a nice "A Game with a Purpose" baseball hat? Believe me, such "values-based" Scouting slogans will make you very popular, despite your reception here. And did you watch the Chief Scout Executive's (CSE) anti-camping video, Daddy_O? Honestly it is only a few minutes long, and not all of the "Silver Tabs" you will talk to have gotten the word from Robert Mazzuca's office that it is OK to hate camping again. So, you can try to phone or Email your District Executive and/or the local District Commissioners. But if that does not work, try the next Roundtable. Really. You know exactly what you want, Daddy_O, and this is where you can network with the most people. Lisabob means well but don't let her discourage you. It is obvious from her description of how much camping is involved in earning Eagle that she has never served under an actual Eagle Scout Scoutmaster who hates camping. I hate to brag, but I have served under not one, but two such role models! Plus a third mega-Troop which was very similar. That makes me an expert on Scouting for the 21st century under our new "Camping...I think the answer to that is fairly obvious" CSE Eagle Scout Robert Mazzuca. If you play your cards right, you will find a Troop like the first one I served. The Eagle Scout Scoutmaster had an extensive list of cabins used by the Girl Scouts and Scouts Canada, all with central heating, microwave ovens, and television. One suburban cabin, the "Red Jacket" (built and maintained by Wood Badgers) even had cable TV! This was way back in the days of VCRs, but we always had plenty of G-rated movies on campouts (Family values are very important to adult Eagle Scouts who hate camping). When he wrote his "20 nights of camping" notes for Scouts earning Camping Merit Badge, he did not have to lie: No counselor ever asked if it was in tents. Perfect for you, huh? Both Eagle Scout SMs were outspoken authorities on "not adding to the requirements." I learned a great deal about Advancement in the Boy Scouts of America from them. Lisabob reads the requirements the way they are understood in her Troop, but what YOU want, Daddy_O, is a Troop that parses them for their "Utah Meaning." Google: "Lost" "Utah" "Boy Scout" For an example of the "Utah Meaning," let us go right to the belly of the beast, shall we Daddy_O? Take a minute and carefully read the Camping Merit Badge backpacking requirement. All it says is "Backpack, snowshoe, or cross-country ski for at least 4 miles." Sounds dreadful, doesn't it? Not to worry! To meet that requirement my second Eagle Scout Scoutmaster simply had the boys pitch their tents in his back yard for a pizza party. Then on Saturday they walked around a wooded lot with their empty packs for "4 miles." If camping in a backyard was too much for your son's allergies, I'm sure an arrangement could have been made for the two of you to have slept inside. You can do that for Tenderfoot requirement number 2 as well. The "Utah Meaning" does not specify that you sleep in a tent that you have pitched outdoors now does it? Likewise for Lisabob's big deal over "show" or "demonstrate." In all three of the Troops in which I was not the Scoutmaster, a Scout can "show" or "demonstrate" an idea with his hands as he describes it while sitting at a table. Having every boy actually chop wood with an ax or light a backpacking camp stove would take forever, and it is downright dangerous! In fact I once got called on the carpet regarding 2nd Class requirement 2f. For eight Scouts in a mega-Troop I had circled the words "light a fire" with the date and my initials. I was asked to explain why I hadn't signed off in the "yellow column." Well, each of them had built their own individual campfire from natural materials (no paper). I own four backpacking stoves, so I would sign the whole requirement off for each boy after he himself actually set up and lit a lightweight stove. Well, you guessed it: By the next campout they had all been signed off by adults who themselves had never lit a backpacking stove in their life. Read the requirement for its Utah Meaning, Daddy_O, it does NOT say "LIGHT a fire" or "LIGHT a lightweight stove." It says "Demonstrate how to" (Demonstrate = a: to prove or make clear by reasoning, b: to illustrate and explain). Understand, Daddy_O, that you would absolutely hate me as a Scoutmaster. I am your very worst nightmare. For me there is only one (1) Method of Scouting: The Patrol Method! When we follow Baden-Powell's simple advice to separate Patrols by 300 feet in the great outdoors, all the other so-called "Methods of Scouting" follow naturally through the forces of nature and personal example. Scouting really is that simple, as long as your Patrol Leaders are the Troop's very best natural leaders. I know you hate that stuff, Daddy_O. So what does it mean for you? You know exactly what you want: A Troop that will get you son to Eagle Scout with a minimal amount of camping. Think about it. Despite my own radical outdoor ways, one hundred percent (100%) of the Troops that I served (in which I was not the Scoutmaster) are exactly what you are looking for! 100%! So what do you suppose the chances are that you will find such a Troop if at a Roundtable you diplomatically describe exactly what you want? I'd say somewhere around, um, 100% Kudu

Our Congressional Charter is the instrument that gives the BSA a corporate monopoly on Scouting in the United States. This arrangement is subject to a formal yearly review, which is why you see Boy Scouts in the Oval Office every February. These are the "rights and responsibilities" we should be teaching Boy Scouts: Sec. 30902. Purposes: The purposes of the corporation are to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916. If Roundtables were run by volunteers concerned with not adding/deleting from these requirements, I would attend more often ghermanno writes: Yes I do believe that one of my many responsabilities, even without authority, is to "ensure BSA procedures are standard throughout the District" and to train volunteers about not adding/deleting requirements...I am not going to ask the scouts to ... kill the family pets Yes, this Scoutmaster's 300 mile program was typical when our purpose was set on June 15, 1916, but now his Scouts could earn Eagle without ever stepping into the woods with a pack on their backs. If only you could get these boys to Roundtable, ghermanno, the kittens and puppies in your District would be safe Kudu