Kudu

OldGreyEagle writes: It used to be a popular refrain that if a scout doesn't know something, then its the fault of the adult leadership. I agree with OGE on that one except, of course, that it is the fault of adult leadership TRAINING! I once staffed a monkey bridge at a Camporee. It was a thing of beauty, the creation of a master rock-climber. It spanned a deep creek-bed and violated the Guide to Safe Scouting height rules by at least two-fold, so of course hundreds of Scouts wanted to climb it! I noticed that three Eagle Scouts in the first round-robin group had no idea how to tie a clove hitch. In fact they joked that they had never heard of one! "You know, the x-knot!" I said. Blank looks. So throughout the day I asked for Eagle Scouts to raise their hands and come to the head of the line. Then I challenged them to tie a clove hitch or the x-knot. If I remember correctly, about 20% of the Eagle Scouts could tie one. It would be easy enough to confirm that 20% figure: Simply construct a pioneering project from the days when Scouting was popular. If it violates the Guide to Safe Scouting, the boys will come running. Tell them Eagle Scouts go first, and then ask each Eagle to tie a clove hitch to cross the bridge or climb the tower. We should understand that ignorance of Scoutcraft is by design. Leadership Development has been at war with Scoutcraft since 1965. See "1965": http://www.whitestag.org/history/history.html That is why Patrol Leader Training was discontinued in 1972, the year that "Leadership Development" was introduced as a so-called "Method of Scouting." See "Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol": http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm It is why Wood Badge trained Den Leaders flock to health and safety committees, with the goal of using the Guide to Safe Scouting to outlaw (in the BSA's centennial year), the Patrol Outings that Wood Badge and Patrol Leader Training taught before leadership formula Wood Badge was invented. It is the meaning of "Once an Eagle, Always an Eagle!" It is the meaning of the fake Baden-Powell quote "Scouting is a Game with a Purpose!" That "Purpose" is defined in the Congressional Charter: Sec. 30902. Purposes The purposes of the corporation are to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916. Even though our Congressional Charter lists Scoutcraft (using the methods of 1916, not EDGE) as one of the three aims of the BSA, Scoutcraft was pushed out of Wood Badge so that we could dumb it down to the Cub Scout level. The resulting "Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills" is a check-it-off-a-requirements-list course, not a Scoutcraft Leadership course as the name implies. So because of our training, what matters to trained adults is the fakable "meaning" stuff like "Leadership and Character." Leadership? Office manager team-building exercises. Character? We can not obey the law and honor the terms of our Congressional Charter because Scoutcraft is, um, old-fashioned. How about soccer instead? The prohibition on "retesting" is part of this war on Scoutcraft. Baden-Powell required his King's Scouts to be retested on all of their qualifying badges every 12-18 months: 432 (2): He must be repassed in all his qualifying badges once between twelve and eighteen months from the date of his being awarded the badge, except in the case of those badges which are marked with an asterisk, i.e., Ambulance Man, Interpreter, Pathfinder, and Signaller, which must be repassed annually in accordance with Rule 436. The re-examination is normally carried out by an independent examiner, but in the case of those badges in italics the re-examination may be made by the S.M. or any other warranted Scouter. He must cease to wear the King's Scout badge should he fail in any of them. See: http://inquiry.net/traditional/por/proficiency_badges.htm Why can't Eagle Scouts tie a clove hitch? Because "Once an Eagle, Always an Eagle." That's why. You know, all that fake "Purpose" of Scouting stuff. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

AvidSM writes: We sell the current program as a "fun adventure", changing it to a "fun patrol adventure" is not going to get us any more boys. "Fun adventure" sounds like something a Den Mother would say (2% TAR). Boys with the balls to drop out of Cub Scouts will join if you can deliver Underwater Adventure, Backwoods Adventure, Patrol Adventure (28% TAR). Thomas54 writes: Is there a good book on the history of Boy Scouts? I have many SM handbooks. I am looking for a what happened, why it happened and when it happened type book. What aspect of Scouting do you want to know more about? Tim Jeal's biography Baden-Powell is the most comprehensive history of the Boy Scouts I have read. Here are some extended passages on the spiritual underpinnings of Scouting that you will not find discussed anywhere else, which is typical of the whole book: http://inquiry.net/ideals/beads.htm I learned most of what I know about BSA Scouting from Hillcourt's two volume 3rd edition of the Handbook for Scoutmasters. About $15 per volume. See: http://tinyurl.com/ydutcxo Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

LIBob writes: As near as I can figure (recall that I was a super-active scout 25 years ago and now just returning) you are saying... LIBob, This is what I am saying: To understand the damage Wood Badge does to the Boy Scout division, you must look at the drop in membership after 1972 when Leadership Development was introduced as a "Method of Scouting." The following account is typical: The 1970s decade was a dark time for the Boy Scouts of America. The period from 1972-80 was a national disaster, when BSA membership declined nationwide by 34% (a loss of 2.2 million members)! Although many changes in our society had an adverse impact on all youth programs, much of the cause for the drastic BSA membership decline was due to the radically changed Scout program of the period... BSA membership peaked at 6.5 million in 1972, and reached bottom in 1980 with 4.3 million. http://www.troop97.net/t97hist.htm Membership began to rise again after 1980 when the 100% pure Wood Badge Boy Scout program of 1972 was replaced with a compromise in which Scoutcraft was reintroduced, but only as Advancement Requirements, NOT as Patrol-based leadership skills. In other words: Yes, we now require a minimum of 20 nights of Webelos-III car-camping, BUT any indoor cupcake can still earn Eagle without ever walking into the woods with a pack on his back. The 2010 movement to offer an anti-camping soccer program to Hispanics in the Boy Scout division is similar to the 1972 movement to offer an anti-Scoutcraft program to urban youth. Check out page 282 of the 1972 Scout Handbook in which clothes moths, mice, rats, cock-roaches, house flies, etc. were added to "signs of wildlife" so that an "inner-city" Boy Scout could get that requirement checked off without ever leaving his ghetto apartment! Presumably if we are able to recruit 100,000 Hispanic boys per year with the Boy Scout soccer program, similar "culture-sensitivity" accommodations will be in our future. LIBob writes: - the fact that scouting in Canada the UK etc. has dropped off precipitously means nothing. That is true because a similar modernization movement occurred in the former British Empire in 1966. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chief_Scouts'_Advance_Party_Report As the article notes, the politically-correct modernization of Scouting in the UK gave rise to the conservative Baden-Powell Scouts' Association (BPSA) and other "Traditional Scouting" associations. As you may know, I was responsible for translating the province-based "Policy, Organization, and Rules" (PO&R) of the Canadian BPSA (based on the 1965 program) into a state-based American version. When the BPSA-UK decided to go with a national model based in Texas (BPSA-USA), I then worked on translating Baden-Powell's "Progressive Training in Scoutcraft" (what Americans call "advancement') into their American program. The BPSA-USA printed a very nice handbook to explain Baden-Powell's program to an American audience, but delayed its publication and the program launch for many years while it waited for a decision on Wrenn v. Boy Scouts of America. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youthscouts Now a third wave of Baden-Powell Scouting has emerged. They base their program not on my generation's circa 1965 PO&R, but on Baden-Powell's final version of his Boy Scout program, the 1938 PO&R, See: http://inquiry.net/traditional/por/index.htm I wish them luck, but I believe that the Wrenn v. Boy Scouts of America ruling will continue to prevent Baden-Powell Scouting from gaining any momentum in the United States. The ruling is consistent with previous interpretations of the BSA's Congressional Charter, but sadly there is no corresponding controlling authority to force the BSA to live up to its end of the bargain (the Charter was written to preserve the BSA's 1916 program for future generations, similar to the BPSA in Scoutcraft as an aim, using the methods [advancement requirements] that were in common use by Boy Scouts on June 15, 1916). It has been implied that Canadians left Scouts Canada (SC) to join Baden-Powell Scouting because the SC liberalized its 3G policies ("Girls, Gays, & the Godless"). That is false. 3-G policies are against the law in Canada, so its effect on any migration from the SC's modernized Scouting program to the various BPSA programs is neutral. In truth many American liberals are initially attracted to Baden-Powell Scouting because its membership polices are based on the anti-discrimination legislation enacted over all of the former British Empire. However, during the decade in which I explained the various B-P programs to UUA congregations, I found that the first thing many individual liberals want to do is to add Leadership Development, dumb down the Scoutcraft, and turn it into the BSA (minus the 3G policies, of course). Most liberal congregations can not find even a few adults to staff an alternative Scouting Troop. I don't know why, but they simply do not see getting their knees dirty around a campfire once a month as having any bearing on teaching their values to their children. If you examine the membership numbers of the Unitarians and the Universalists over the 20th century you will find that has always been true. The number of UUA congregations was always very low. Tellingly, UUA membership in the BSA reached its all-time high in 1973 when the BSA's progressive policies drove most boys away. The truth is that nobody knows what effect membership policies have on membership numbers. We can debate this stuff forever and never really understand. Why is Scouting in Germany so overwhelmingly liberal, for instance? LIBob, if you are sincere in your stated interest in understanding the popularity of Boy Scouting in the United States, then I suggest that you stop trying to understand the subject by debate. Get out and compile your own "raw data"! Simply take two Loperamide Hydrochloride tablets, and then go stand in front of an auditorium of sixth-grade boys who want nothing more than to hoot you off the stage, along with your Boy Scout uniform and everything that represents! Does that sound appealing? If so, here is the URL for my step-by-step how-to guide: http://kudu.net/adult/recruiting.htm You must demand absolute silence. Then wave a Boy Scout handbook in the air and tell them that it is the Boy Scout "book of rules." In my Troop, a Boy Scout must carry a knife. That's the rule. He must carry matches and use them to cook a meal over a fire. That's the rule. A Boy Scout must know how to deal with rattlesnakes and bears. That's the rule. A Boy Scout must know how to save the life of someone he loves. I show a national BSA certificate awarded to a Scout of mine who saved his dad's life. When you are done with the rules, then tell them about the things they can do if they want to: shoot rifles and shotguns. Archery. Swimming and sailing. Horseback riding. Wilderness travel. Rock climbing. SCUBA is very popular in my current Troop now. If you present Scouting as the kind of camping ADVENTURE that was popular on June 15, 1916, you will find that 70% of the audience will (in front of their peers) sign a list asking you to call their parents so that they can be BSA Boy Scouts. Of that 70% of TAY (Total Available Youth), I usually recruit about 15 Scouts. 15 out of an audience of 53 (in 2007) works out to 28% of TAY (if my math is correct). Mind you: This is always AFTER Webelos have already crossed over into Boy Scouts, so that 28% TAY comes AFTER the BSA has extracted every boy it can. I have been told by former BSA employees that a DE is expected to deliver 2% TAY. If true, then a 20 minute presentation of Scoutcraft-based Patrol Adventure is 10 times more effective at recruiting Boy Scouts than the "proven" leadership formulas of BSA millionaires and all the efforts of Cub Scout volunteers. By the way, this includes Hispanics and African-Americans in roughly the same percentage as in the whole audience. The assertion that we must get rid of Scoutcraft to "reach out" to racial minorities is racist dogma from the Wood Badge idiots who hate Scoutcraft. In fact when I recruited for one Troop back in the 1990s, we only had one little white cracker face in the crowd that regularly went lean-to camping in the snow. So LIBob, if you really want to understand what "21st century youth" want, simply get out there and make an early 20th century pitch: Compile your own statistics! Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

jhankins writes: And really? The exact same year Scoutcraft was removed from Wood Badge, there was a downturn in membership, and you can blame one year of training on this? Wood Badge is the "Uniform Police" of Leadership Development. Leadership Development has been at war with Scoutcraft since 1965 when modern Wood Badge was invented. Scoutcraft is not just a "method" of Scouting, by law it is a fundamental aim of Scouting, as specified in our Congressional Charter: Sec. 30902. Purposes The purposes of the corporation are to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916. Ironically, the Charter is the instrument that allows the BSA to block Baden-Powell Scouting associations from offering Americans the Scoutcraft program designed by Baden-Powell. The BSA's rapid decline began in 1972 with the introduction of Leadership Development, along with Leadership Development's public ridicule of the source of Patrol ADVENTURE, Scoutcraft. The following dogma is typical: In general, Patrol Leader training should concentrate on leadership skills rather than on Scoutcraft Skills. The Patrol will not rise and fall on the Patrol Leader's ability to cook, follow a map, or do first aid, but it very definitely depends on his leadership skill (Scoutmaster's Handbook [1972], page 155). This hostility toward independent outdoor ADVENTURE was also reflected in the day-to-day program, in which ALL camping requirements were removed. In other words, any indoor boy could add Eagle to his business resume without ever attending a single campout. Perhaps the business strategy was to replace camping ADVENTURE with easy Eagles. The current business strategy is to replace camping with soccer. And how are these soccer players going to get their Eagles if they hate camping? jhankins writes: I find no basis for that claim except a personal hatred of a training program. A personal hatred of a training program, huh? For those who have not taken Wood Badge, that statement is an ad hominem attack. "Oh, so you dare to explain how Wood Badge destroyed the Patrol Method as a source of ADVENTURE? Well, I do not have to use logic because I can pretend to understand your motivation." If you want to learn this Wood Badge technique, simply Google "ad hominem." Here is the Wikipedia ULR: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem The use of ad hominem to defend the new Wood Badge was introduced in 1965 with the invention of leadership formulas. Note how Dr. John W. Larson (Director of Boy Scout Leader Training) uses a personal attack to defend his destruction of William Hillcourt's life-work, his hugely popular Scoutcraft Patrol Method: Larson later reported, "He fought us all the way... He had a vested interest in what had been and resisted every change. I just told him to settle down, everything was going to be all right." Hillcourt presented an alternative to Larson's plan to incorporate leadership into Wood Badge. Chief Scout Brunton asked Larson to look at Hillcourt's plan, and Larson reported back that it was the same stuff, just reordered and rewritten. See: http://www.whitestag.org/history/history.html jhankins writes: During the Patrol Method presentation, we turned it into a real live TROOP election situation and had each patrol appoint each TROOP position by vote. It was a great period of storming...[emphasis added]. Screw storming. Troop elections and Troop positions are the Troop Method, not the Patrol Method. Among other things Leadership Development emasculated the Patrol Leaders by declaring that "The Patrol will not rise and fall on the Patrol Leader's ability to cook, follow a map, or do first aid," and then transferred responsibility for these ADVENTURE skills to a Troop Position that turns them into something that you check off a list for Advancement (same as ItOLS). The Scoutcraft skills necessary to cook, follow a map, and do first aid are necessary for a Patrol Leader to lead a Patrol's independent ADVENTURE. But the Troop Method Troop Guides (along with Troop ASPLs) are appointed by the Troop SPL, with the power to vote against the Patrol Leaders in the Troop PLC. The rest of the Scoutmaster-specific training course defines the Patrol Leader only in terms of the Troop Method (his role in the Troop PLC, for instance). If you do not want to follow the course outline, then you should use the "Patrol Method" presentation time to introduce individual Patrol ADVENTURE. Simply separate the participants' Patrol campsites by Baden-Powell's minimum distance, and then use the Patrol Method presentation to explain how Patrols can function independently of the Troop. Of course in both Baden-Powell's Patrol System and William Hillcourt's Patrol Method, the function of a Patrol was to seek ADVENTURE in individually-planned Patrol Hikes and extended hikes called Patrol Outings. Baden-Powell's minimum standard of 100 yards between Patrols on Troop campouts was merely practice for real Patrol Camping. When I staff the Patrol Method presentation, I follow the course outline (which is about EDGE theory, not the Patrol Method), but I present unsupervised Patrol ADVENTURE as an example of an "Enabled" Patrol. Silas, The following link to the video is working today (in which the CSE announces a "major investment" in bilingual staff to attract --by the end of 2010-- 100,000 boys who do not like camping): http://www.inquiry.net/leadership/sitting_side_by_side_with_adults.htm Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

Yes, we all stand on the shoulders of Baden-Powell, but we also stand on the shoulders of Seton and Beard and West and Hillcourt and others. Scouting in the United States was always different from Baden-Powell's Scouting. For example, Baden Powell's Scout Law contained 10 points. The BSA version has 12 points. http://www.inquiry.net/ideals/scout_law/chart.htm The differences between Baden-Powell's Scouting and BSA Scouting are not due to inherent differences in the societies. They are the result of the YMCA's successful bid to take control of the BSA (when it was only one of the six American Scouting associations attempting to go national) with the intention of establishing a national monopoly on Scouting. The BSA Oath & Law tends to be more moralistic because the YMCA got rid of Baden-Powell's Patrol System and replaced it with adult control (what we now know as Scoutmaster Conferences, Boards of Review, Scout Spirit requirements, and even Blue Cards). They also imported the YMCA's night school program in the form of Merit Badges. See "Turning Scouting into School" http://www.scouter.com/Forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=236888 My point it that Scouting in the US has evolved over this past century and also changed from Baden-Powell's initial vision. Some of us may like the evolution, others may not. Training has evolved, some good - some not. Wood Badge has evolved, some good...you get my point. That is not true. Evolution is based on competition. Because the BSA has a monopoly on Scoutcraft in the United States they can eliminate Scoutcraft from Wood Badge without competition from the international Scoutcraft-based Baden-Powell Scouting associations. Our "base" has nowhere else to go, so Wood Badge supporters can "broaden the appeal of Scouting" by recruiting boys who hate Scoutcraft. The 2010 goal is to invest large sums of money on translators so that we can recruit 100,000 Hispanic boys who hate camping. The old Wood Badge isn't coming back. ... prior Wood Badge emphasis on outdoor skills is significantly diminished in today's Wood Badge, AS IT SHOULD BE. We hear the phrase "The old Wood Badge isn't coming back" in every discussion. The reason is that Wood Badge satisfies the adult need for meaning and validation: Question: How do you get people to sit behind a desk for forty years? Answer: Tell them they are "leaders." Question: How do you get office workers to destroy the Boy Scout program? Answer: Tell them boys can benefit from their awesome insight into "leadership" formulas. The meaning of "The old Wood Badge isn't coming back" is clear: "Do not waste our time with reasoned debate, no matter how much damage Wood Badge does to our membership numbers, Wood Badge will stay the course and force corporate manager courses on Scouting. We can always make it up by offering soccer to people who don't speak English." My suggestion to any leader who has not yet taken Wood Badge - just do it. If you have reservations - just do it. If you have doubts - just do it. If you have any doubt that Wood Badge is a cult, just read that over: Don't trust your ability to reason, don't let your disgust at the corporate rape of Scoutcraft and the Patrol Method sway you. Just Do It! When you surrender your sense of right and wrong you will meet new people, all of whom share the same love of corporate management and office team-building exercises. Adult peer pressure will keep you loyal to our cult!" So far only three Wood Badge members in the United States find anything wrong with removing the Patrol Leader from the Patrol Method session of Scoutmaster training. My suggestion to any leader who has not yet taken Wood Badge: 1) Purchase a copy of the "Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Specific Training" course outline and verify for yourself that the "Patrol Method" presentation does not include ONE SINGLE MENTION of a Patrol Leader or a working Patrol. 2) Ask around at Roundtable and find the Wood Badge members who Staff your Council's "Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Specific Training" course. 3) Ask them if the Patrol Leader and a working Patrol is important. Then ask them why there is not a single mention of either in the Patrol Method session. Ask why the Patrol Leader and working Patrols were replaced by EDGE theory. 4) Remember or record their answers. If getting rid of the Patrol Leaders starts to makes sense to you, then Google "cult indoctrination." The following is typical: dependency - an intense desire to belong, stemming from a lack of self-confidence unassertiveness - a reluctance to say no or question authority gullibility - a tendency to believe what someone says without really thinking about it low tolerance for uncertainty - a need to have any question answered immediately in black-and-white terms disillusionment with the status quo - a feeling of marginalization within one's own culture and a desire to see that culture change naive idealism - a blind belief that everyone is good desire for spiritual meaning - a need to believe that life has a "higher purpose" Yours at 300 feet! Kudu

leadership skills have always been part of scouting, all the way back to BP's time. The methodology may have been different but the goal was the same. That is simply not true, Baden If you want to quote specific passages then I think it would be fun to discuss their context, but back when Scouting was popular, the "goal" of the Patrol Method was small-group Adventure, not "leadership skills." As soon as "Leadership Development" was introduced in 1972 our membership went into a sharp decline. Why? Because we replaced Scoutcraft Adventure with teaching everybody a stupid leadership formula. As soon as you declare that leadership is a "Method of Scouting" (rather than something that the most competent outdoor leader exhibits when he hikes and camps his Patrol without adult supervision) then by definition you must dumb the adventure down to the level of the Troop's most incompetent Scout so that he can get "his turn to be the leader." It is magical thinking to believe that everybody can be a leader without dumbing down the level of managed risk. Likewise, to be fair to the Troop Librarian, his magic formula must be the same as the Patrol Leader's magic formula, so goodbye position-specific Patrol Leader Training. Now that most boys hate Scouting, "leadership" has been kicked up another notch to informal "aim of Scouting" status (as in "Character and Leadership") to justify using soccer to recruit 100,000 boys a year who hate camping. You can teach a kid about character and leadership using aerospace and computers. The secret is to get them side by side with adults of character. We run the risk of becoming irrelevant if we don't adapt to things that attract kids today... We recognize the evolving science of leadership. We've had CEOs on our board say they want to send their people to Wood Badge, our adult leader training program, because we use state-of-the-art techniques (Chief Scout Executive Mazzuca) http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/2008-07-20-boy-scouts-advice_N.htm Camping is not necessarily a big thing with them, as a matter of fact in some cases it is not big at all. So we need to kind of think about, is it more important that we reach that child with the kind of things we have for children and we have for families in character development and leadership skill growth and all of those things? Or is it more important that we get them in a tent next week? And so I think the answer to that is fairly obvious to us. ...when we say 'we want to take your twelve-year-old son but you can't come' we're making a mistake there. We have to engage an entire family... For example one of our pilot programs over the last recent years has been Scouting and soccer... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/#29491940 Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

It ain't the membership policies, it's Wood Badge. Our membership went into sharp decline the year Wood Badge replaced Scoutcraft with leadership theory and office team-building exercises. The methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916 are just as popular with boys today as they were with their great-grandfathers. That is easy enough to prove: When I recruit in the public schools the sixth-graders try to hoot my Boy Scout Uniform off the stage at first, but in 20 minutes 70% of them sign a list (in front of their peers) asking me to call their parents so they can be Boy Scouts. Most parents hide behind voicemail, but I usually registered 15 new BSA Scouts every year. Skeptical? Try it yourself: http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm The only bearing that membership policies have on that awesome 70% potential marketshare, is that they give us an excuse to claim victimhood at the hands of the ACLU rather than risking getting hooted off the stage by boys who hate classroom citizenship, the EDGE method, and office team-building exercises. Boys hate that stuff, have always that stuff, and will continue to hate that stuff until the end of time. If Little League was burdened with the cult of Wood Badge, then their volunteers would be just as mystified as we are now as to why Little League membership went into sharp decline the year they replaced baseball with leadership theory and office team-building exercises Maybe it's the uniform? Yours at 300 feet, Kudu (This message has been edited by Kudu)

I Recruited 15 Non-Cubs per year by telling an auditorium of skeptical sixth graders that Boy Scouts is probably too dangerous for them. My Boy Scout recruiting presentation can be found at: http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

the program has drifted further and further away from its central core of outdoor skills and leadership development to name just two. "Leadership Development" is the cancer that killed Wood Badge. It replaced Scoutcraft. It was never a "central core" of Scouting when Scouting was popular. Wood Badgers would say exactly the same thing if Wood Badge took over Little League: "Yes, Little League went into a steep membership decline the year that we replaced baseball with EDGE theory and office team-building exercises. So we need all the EDGE theory and office team-building exercises we can get to stop this decline and deliver a dynamic program to our boys. If that does not work, Little League can always do what the BSA did and switch to soccer. You know, broaden the appeal of baseball by attracting boys who hate baseball. We can always replace the old-fashioned kicking and running of soccer with EDGE theory and team-building exercises!" Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

BadenP writes: The reasons are these, boy scout numbers and troops are dropping at an alarming rate, National hasn't got a clue how to change this situation, and SM's and ASM's need all the training they can get to stop this decline and deliver a dynamic program to their boys. Wood Badge is the reason for our decline. Membership numbers went a sharp tailspin the year that Wood Badge switched the BSA from Scoutcraft (Outdoor Adventure) to indoor leadership theory. The destruction of William Hillcourt's life work was nasty and brutal: In December 1965, Chief Scout Executive Joseph Brunton Jr. received a "blueprint for action", the White Stag Report, from John Larson. It stated that offering leadership development to youth was a unique opportunity for Scouting to provide a practical benefit to youth and would add substantial support to Scouting's character development goals. It recommended that Wood Badge should be used to experiment with the leadership development principles of White Stag. The National Council leadership approved adapting the White Stag leadership competencies for nationwide use. Dr. John W. Larson, by now Director of Boy Scout Leader Training for the National Council, adapted the White Stag leadership development competencies and wrote the first syllabus for the adult Wood Badge program. Shifting from teaching primarily Scoutcraft skills to leadership competencies was a paradigm shift, changing the assumptions, concepts, practices, and values underlying how adults were trained in the skills of Scouting. Some members were very resistant to the idea of changing the focus of Wood Badge from training leaders in Scout craft to leadership skills. Among them was Bill Hillcourt, who had been the first United States Wood Badge Course Director in 1948. Although he had officially retired on August 1, 1965, his opinion was still sought after and respected. Larson later reported, "He fought us all the way... He had a vested interest in what had been and resisted every change. I just told him to settle down, everything was going to be all right." Hillcourt presented an alternative to Larson's plan to incorporate leadership into Wood Badge. Chief Scout Brunton asked Larson to look at Hillcourt's plan, and Larson reported back that it was the same stuff, just reordered and rewritten. http://www.whitestag.org/history/history.html Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

I have to conclude that an awful lot of adults involved in scouting have done a fine job, thank you, of weakening (or ignoring) the patrol method ALL ON THEIR OWN, without WB training to blame. WB may be an easy target but I think it is just a bit too convenient in this case. Lisa, let us review: The Patrol Method Session of Scoutmaster-Specific Training does not include a single mention of a Patrol Leader or a working Patrol. The Patrol Method Session is mostly about EDGE. Leadership Development (AKA Wood Badge) also replaced the Scout's Patrol Leader Training (PLT) with TLT (mostly EDGE). See Patrol Leader Training: http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm Occam's Razor: The problem is training. Where do the Obedient and Loyal trainers come from? Wood Badge. Yours at 300 Feet, Kudu

The Wood Badge Senior Patrol Leader runs the program. That is the Troop Method. The Patrol Method is measured by independent Patrol Adventures. In the Troop Method, the SPL appoints voting members of the PLC: The "Troop" Guides and the Troop ASPLs. "Troop" Guides and Troop ASPLs are by definition the "Troop" Method. In the Patrol Method, the Patrol Leaders hire and fire the SPL. If Wood Badge used the Patrol Method, every Wood Badge graduate would be able to boast of at least one Patrol that practices the Patrol Method as it was defined before Wood Badge destroyed Patrol Leader Training. A "Real Patrol" is measured by the distance that it covers. A leadership-based Patrol is measured by adult-supervised "Controlled Failure": Using EDGE to wash the dishes in a Webelos III "Troop" campsite. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

Taking the course with a closed mind or a desire to debate the fine points of the EDGE method Leadership theory (AKA Wood Badge) removed any mention of a Patrol Leader and any description of a working Patrol from the PATROL METHOD presentation of Scoutmaster-Specific Training. The Patrol Method presentation, mind you. That is not a "fine point." Given our differences, it is ironic that John-in-KC and I are the only two people in the United States to publicly declare that EDGE should not have displaced the Patrol Method in program training for Scouters. Thank you John. Where we differ is in our observation of what Wood Badge has done to the Patrol Method. The comparison of Wood Badge to military or corporate leadership courses is not valid because neither the military nor any corporation holds six month elections to give everyone in the mail room the opportunity to vote for the general or the CEO to learn about "leadership." The purpose of the military is to defend our country. The purpose of a corporation is to make a profit. The purpose of the Patrol Method before 1972 was competency-based Adventure. Not "leadership." Patrol Leader Training (PLT) taught a Patrol Leader how to take his Patrol into the woods without adult supervision (Adventure). Wood Badge eliminated PLT and replaced it with Positions of Responsibility (POR). Six month PORs favor a rapid turn-over of fake leadership so that everyone will learn abstract formulas like EDGE (school) and then pretend to use them. It is easy enough to objectively measure the effectiveness of Wood Badge. In the Patrols of Troops that support Wood Badge and NYLT, does even one single Patrol Leader get his Patrol out on regular unsupervised Patrol Hikes? Is his Patrol ready to extend these regular hikes to overnight journeys? Those are the real-world "leadership skills" to which Baden-Powell refers when he writes of "real responsibility." In this country those were also the objectives of Patrol Leader Training (PLT) before Wood Badge destroyed the Patrol Method by removing the position-specific PLT: Patrols are ready to go hiking and camping on their own just as soon as the Patrol Leader has been trained, and the Scouts have learned to take care of themselves (Handbook for Scoutmasters [fourth edition], page 118). Even if we dumb Scouting down to the Troop Method, real leadership can still be assessed by physical distance. Many Wood Badge courses still separate the Patrols by approximately Baden-Powell's minimum 300 feet apart. How many adult leadership experts take that practice home with them from Wood Badge? If we accept Barry's report that 5% of the population are natural leaders, then every Troop of 20 Scouts already has at least one Patrol Leader capable of camping his Patrol a football field away from the others. Does any Wood Badge graduate here allow him to do so? If not, then it is reasonable to assert that Wood Badge is not even a neutral influence on leadership. It destroys leadership. That, Scoutfish, is what Wood Badge "curtails"! Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

Read the Patrol Method presentation of Scoutmaster-Specific Training to see for yourself that ANY mention of a Patrol Leader or a working Patrol has been removed to make room for EDGE theory. Wood Badge gives you the confidence to say "So what?" To understand what Wood Badge has done to the Boy Scout program, read the "Modernization of Scouting" thread: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=278693 Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

Why do you mention that your Troop goes to Scout camp the "first week"? Is it the broken leg that prevents you from camping, or the timing? If it is the timing, then call your local Council office and find out if the camp has "Provisional Camping." That is for Scouts who must attend individually without the rest of their Troop. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

Real Scouting is based on physical distance. That is why it is called "Scouting." No matter what you do to make it "interesting," advancement is boring schoolwork unless it is used a necessary tool for ADVENTURE. That is the opposite of most Troops because the "Modernization" of Scouting allows ANY cupcake to get Eagle Scout on his business resume without EVER walking into the woods with a pack on his back! That is not an exaggeration. There is no Eagle camping requirement that ever requires a Scout to camp any distance from the parking lot. Because of our BSA training that sounds logical and modern, but try to imagine a "Modernization" of Little League that allowed any little couch potato to add "Little League World Series" to his resume without ever playing a single game of baseball. If you want competent First Class Scouts, BRING BACK THE FIRST CLASS JOURNEY AND PATROL CAMPING (caps for shouting): The First Class Journey. On foot with another Second Class Scout, go on a 24-hour Journey of at least 15 miles. Make all the necessary advance preparations, and organize the packing of food and gear. In the course of the journey, you must cook your own meals, at least one of which must include protein. Find a campsite and camp for the night. You must carry out any instructions given by the examiner as to things to be observed on route. Make a log of your journey sufficient to show you have carried out those instructions, and submit it within one week of your return. Oh, and camp your Troop's best Patrols 300 feet apart, Baden-Powell's minimum standard: So it results that Scouts' camps should be small -- not more than one Troop camped together; and even then each Patrol should have its own separate tent at some distance (at least 100 yards) from the others. This latter is with a view to developing the responsibility of the Patrol Leader for his distinct unit. http://inquiry.net/patrol/traditional/100_yards.htm The reason boys hate Scouting is that all of the Patrol Adventure that requires competent outdoor leadership has been removed so that Wood Badge idiots can teach boys the awesome leadership skills they use while sitting at their desk at work under fluorescent lighting. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

docdct writes: All we want to do is give the boys a chance to do scouting BP's way If so, then Eagle92's advice to purchase both volumes of the third edition of Handbook for Scoutmasters is especially valuable. They were written by the "Father of the American Patrol Method" at a period of our history very similar to 21st century Scouting: At a time when Baden-Powell's Patrol System had been stamped out by "modern" leadership theory. The books can be purchased for about $10-20 per volume through AddAll at the following URL: http://tinyurl.com/ydutcxo These days leadership "experts" make up fake Baden-Powell quotes to make it seem like the "Patrol Method" means the SPL and the PLC. The "Patrol Method" presentation of Scoutmaster-specific training does not even MENTION a Patrol Leader or a working Patrol! Start with what these handbooks call a "Real Patrol" and worry about all that Troop Method SPL-PLC theory later :-/ Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

Yes, OGE, just say "No!" Boycott Wood Badge and Scoutmaster-specific training. "Just Say No!" worked when Boy Scouts refused to wear the old dress-designer uniform. The BSA was forced to find a loop-hole around the national committee that forced their indoor values on our monopoly corporation. If you look at the situation objectively, allowing Patrol Leaders to take their Patrols camping without William Hillcourt's six month Patrol Leader Training (PLT) course is just one Utah newspaper headline away from being rescinded anyway. The problem is that Wood Badge killed PLT, a specialized course with the single goal of training Patrol Leaders how to take their Patrols hiking and then camping without adult supervision: Patrols are ready to go hiking and camping on their own just as soon as the Patrol Leader has been trained, and the Scouts have learned to take care of themselves (Handbook for Scoutmasters [fourth edition], page 118). If we want to rescue the Patrol Method from the way it is described in Scoutmaster-specific training, then we must kick the leadership experts out of Wood Badge. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

If we are talking about the same person, he reports that the change in policy was a result of his repeated "requests for clarification" from a national committee. If true, we must give credit where credit is due: He was insistent enough to distract these esteemed national committee members from their high-level discussions of indoor CEO "leadership" theory to realize that a loophole still existed that allowed Patrol Leaders to practice the real-world Patrol leadership that Wood Badge stamped out without mercy: Larson later reported, "He [Hillcourt] fought us all the way... He had a vested interest in what had been and resisted every change. I just told him to settle down, everything was going to be all right." See "1965" at the following URL: http://www.whitestag.org/history/history.html It is ironic that the final nail in the coffin of Hillcourt's Patrol Leader Training (PLT) course was pounded home on the BSA's centennial year, exactly 45 years after leadership development killed Hillcourt's Wood Badge and PLT. Perhaps our former poster had the same motivation as Mark David Chapman: to have his name forever associated with America's greatest rock star of Scouting, William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt :-/ Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

Update: I just finished a week of Webelos day-camp wearing the Centennial Shorts every day. The temperature was in the 90s all week with the humidity around 100%, which made the heat index well over 100. The Centennial Shorts were very comfortable. My second pair has not yet arrived, so I never got around to cutting the lining out. I'm glad because the "weird" feeling disappeared after the first day, and I needed to use them as swimming trunks an hour a day to work on Aquanaut. The only minor annoyance was that the cargo pockets are so generous (wide and deep, unlike the 1990s) that my cell phone banged against my knees. So, I put it in a small belt bag which I carried in my cargo pocket rather than my belt. To answer ManyHats's original question, I ordered my regular waist size and they fit perfectly. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

sherminator505 writes: We should do it to build their SELF-RELIANCE...So that they can TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES. Actually, "the ability of boys to do things for themselves" is one of the mandated "aims" required of our corporation in return for its lucrative monopoly on Scouting in the United States. Note that "Scoutcraft" is also an aim (not a mere "method"), and that the BSA is required to use the methods that were in common use on June 15, 1916. That specific date indicates that the Congressional Charter was drafted specifically to head-off making Scouting "modern" or "relevant:" Sec. 30902. Purposes The purposes of the corporation are to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916. Historically, leadership theory (AKA post-1972 Wood Badge) has been at war with Scoutcraft since its introduction in 1965, the year of Hillcourt's retirement. Scoutcraft is based on self-reliance, but "leadership" is centered on "group" theory. Hence Wood Badge replaces the traditional backwoodsman heroes of Scouting with Corporate CEOs: You can teach a kid about character and leadership using aerospace and computers. The secret is to get them side by side with adults of character. We run the risk of becoming irrelevant if we don't adapt to things that attract kids today... We recognize the evolving science of leadership. We've had CEOs on our board say they want to send their people to Wood Badge, our adult leader training program, because we use state-of-the-art techniques (Chief Scout Executive Mazzuca) http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/2008-07-20-boy-scouts-advice_N.htm The key terms to look for are in breaking the Congressional Charter are Character and Leadership In December 1965, Chief Scout Executive Joseph Brunton Jr. received a "blueprint for action", the White Stag Report, from John Larson. It stated that offering leadership development to youth was a unique opportunity for Scouting to provide a practical benefit to youth and would add substantial support to Scouting's character development goals. It recommended that Wood Badge should be used to experiment with the leadership development principles of White Stag. The National Council leadership approved adapting the White Stag leadership competencies for nationwide use. Dr. John W. Larson, by now Director of Boy Scout Leader Training for the National Council, adapted the White Stag leadership development competencies and wrote the first syllabus for the adult Wood Badge program. Shifting from teaching primarily Scoutcraft skills to leadership competencies was a paradigm shift, changing the assumptions, concepts, practices, and values underlying how adults were trained in the skills of Scouting. Some members were very resistant to the idea of changing the focus of Wood Badge from training leaders in Scout craft to leadership skills. Among them was Bill Hillcourt, who had been the first United States Wood Badge Course Director in 1948. Although he had officially retired on August 1, 1965, his opinion was still sought after and respected. Larson later reported, " He fought us all the way... He had a vested interest in what had been and resisted every change. I just told him to settle down, everything was going to be all right." Hillcourt presented an alternative to Larson's plan to incorporate leadership into Wood Badge. Chief Scout Brunton asked Larson to look at Hillcourt's plan, and Larson reported back that it was the same stuff, just reordered and rewritten. Larson's plan for Wood Badge was approved and he moved ahead to begin testing the proposed changes. The program was designed and written by Bnthy, Perin, and Larson. The National Council selected the training of Scoutmasters in Wood Badge as the first area of national application of the White Stag Leadership Development design. The application was designed by Bnthy, Perin and Larson. http://www.whitestag.org/history/history.html Note the same "Leadership and Character" theme in Chief Scout Executive Mazzuca's media blitz promoting his 2010 goal of recruiting 100,000 boys who hate camping: Camping is not necessarily a big thing with them, as a matter of fact in some cases it is not big at all. So we need to kind of think about, is it more important that we reach that child with the kind of things we have for children and we have for families in character development and leadership skill growth and all of those things? Or is it more important that we get them in a tent next week? And so I think the answer to that is fairly obvious to us. ...when we say 'we want to take your twelve-year-old son but you can't come' we're making a mistake there. We have to engage an entire family... For example one of our pilot programs over the last recent years has been Scouting and soccer... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/#29491940 Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

I put off buying a pair until a couple of weeks ago, then they went on sale the day my pair arrived in the mail :-/ They tell me I have to mail the first pair back to get a refund. I have mostly only worn them swimming under a wet suit so far, but they work for me! As prairie writes, the liner does feel feel weird on dry land if you are wearing underwear, so I may also cut the liner out on one pair, but leave it in on a second pair for swimming. Yes, they fit well enough to justify buying two pairs at the sale price! Does anyone remember how angry the Wood Badge crowd got in the 1990s when we Uniform radicals suggested that official nylon shorts could be used for swimming? Why aren't they "Storming" against BSA Supply now the way they "Stormed" against us? That is what you have to do to practice "leadership," right? Storm? "An outdoor Uniform would NEVER work! There are too many climates in the United States! The Uniform represents our "deeply-held values," so if Boy Scouts are embarrassed to be seen in the dress-designer Uniform we wore at Wood Badge, they therefore hate our deeply-held hothouse values!" :-/ Well, the idea they hated most is on super-sale now! I'm talking about the short-sleeve "Boy Scout Short Sleeve Action Shirt" being closed out at $7.99! If you are going to buy a pair or two of the Centennial Shorts, you should also get a couple copies of these fantastic shirts as well. They are almost free to begin with and they do not bump up the postage charge! See: http://tinyurl.com/2snvml The "bi-swing back with mesh inserts" is especially well-designed to keep you much cooler than the Centennial Uniform shirts. I sewed a Council Patch and my unit number on a pair to wear during the day at summer camp this year, way up north in Georgia. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

I read somewhere about putting up a tent and a fake fire to set the mood. Maybe even spray some outdoor smelling air freshener, like pine or something... we set up a campsite on the stage in the cafeteria (tent, fake fire, flags, etc; looking for a sounds of nature cd to add to it this year and now gonna look for a smells of nature air freshener and auto spray, too - thanks!). We got the campsite idea from another Pack - this went over HUGE!! The original presentation can be found at The Kudu Net: http://kudu.net/adult/recruiting.htm It was designed for recruiting sixth-graders into Boy Scout Troops. I have found that if I use the presentation to promote Boy Scouting as a dangerous adventure, 70% of a sixth-grade audience will (in front of their peers) sign a sheet asking me to call their parents so they can join. The idea, however, is that what they see on stage is what they get every month in the Boy Scout section. I wonder if they end up with typical indoor Cub Scout fare (songs, games, skits, Promise, Law, and macaroni crafts); will they will ever Cross-Over to Boy Scouts ("They fooled me once with that promise of outdoor adventure..."). Kudu

My understanding was that Baden Powell just used an existing British Army "Scout" insignia from those soldiers designated to lead the way. Later he added the Scouting meanings previously stated to this design of a commonly used insignia. The "duty to others, duty to self" "Scouting meanings" were invented by the YMCA, not Baden-Powell. This eliminated "obey the Scout Law" as the third point and replaced it with "Duty to Self" (AKA the YMCA's Three Principles). To Scouts in the rest of the world, the three points of the Scout Promise are simply the three points as follows: On my honor I promise that I will do my best: 1) To do my duty to God and my country; THAT's "duty to God and my country" 2) To help other people at all times; THAT's "help other people at all times" 3) To obey the Scout Law. THAT's "obey the Scout Law" If you have ever tried to get a ten-year-old to explain the BSA's three meanings, you can begin to understand how the YMCA's American Scouting program was designed for moralistic adults, and Baden-Powell's program was designed for active boys. Kudu

The three points, like the fingers of the Scout sign, stand for the three parts of the Scout Oath: duty to God and country, duty to others, and duty to self. Note that in the rest of the world the fleur-de-lis and the Scout Sign represent the three parts of Baden-Powell's Scout Promise: 1) To do my duty to God and my country; 2) To help other people at all times; 3) To obey the Scout Law. The "duty to others, and duty to self" interpretation was an American invention that became necessary when the YMCA took over the BSA and added their three principles (Healthy Body, Healthy Mind, Healthy Spirit) to the end of Baden-Powell's three points. Kudu