johndaigler

It's funny how we can come back to a conversation a year later without missing a beat! Lodge Chief, it wouldn't take much vision-bending to argue that many Atheists are Reverent of Nature and Science and Art and Mathematics and the Human Machine and get that same awestruck feeling ya get when you've been climbing for 4 hours and reach the mountain crest from where you can see the prettiest parts of 3 states. Anyone standing in that place feels Reverence. IMHO, they just give God another name, but then again so does most of the planet. I'm neither an Atheist nor a homosexual, but

scotiacat, First, I hope you didn't feel my posts in the "Limbo" thread were "raking you over the coals". I thought I was just answering your question and offering suggestions for activities. Second, if you and other parents are willing to pay for patches, beltloops, etc. your CM can't keep your boys from wearing them. He might not appreciate your end run, but you'll force the conversation on the issue -- especially if other boys and parents see the bling!bling! and want some o' their own. Third, with the exception of rank badges, anyone with $ can buy patches and belt loops i

I wonder how many COs take the time to think through such "rules"? Tortdog, if such a Unit policy exists; all the boys know it; and it's consistently applied; then that's fine. My issue with this scenario has always been the wayward BOR member creating his own rule and thinking he has the authority to enforce it. I know we've discussed the Scout's sense of "obedient", but all along I've felt this whole thread should have focused more on the adult's actions - not to mention the other Unit Leaders and adults in the vicinity. jd

LOL Hunt, I didn't notice, till you told me to notice!! Welcome, KunatahKid!!! At this point I'm thinking that's the important part of this thread! Glad you could (re)join us!! Is there a smiley face for shaking my head, feeling a bit silly???? jd

Welcome! jd

The President doesn't get elected by the far-right or the far-left. Those voter bases offset each other every election. Their representative spokespeople generally turn off more voters than they bring into the fold. You've seen the myriad political talk shows that say they're giving you both sides. It amazes me that they can find so many great talkers who are deaf! Most Americans tune them out because their "strength of conviction" is shown only by intolerance, rudeness and an inability to accept or collaborate with thinkers who don't agree with their thoughts. Occasionally, some of us

Ed, I went back to your other post - it still reads the same way to me. However, I apologize if I've misinterpreted your thoughts and responded inapprpriately. jd

Ed, apparently, you didn't get my initial point. Your post hammering alcoholics as immoral was so off base as to require a retraction or apology. Secondly, the immorality of humans is a given Christian concept. It is only through God's grace and the value of the Christ's sacrifice that we can hope to be redeemed. (If I understand what I've been taught all these years) Third, IMHO, a person can't accidentally be immoral. There has to be an understanding by that individual that they are crossing a line (their own or someone else's) - either truly intending to do damage or hurt othe

YO, ED, BEING SICK IS NOT IMMORAL!!!!!!!!!!!! I believe immorality, at it's most basic level, must include intent or, at least, a disregard for the negative consequences of your actions. jd

Welcome!! jd

First, I'm not an advocate of unecessary rules and rulebooks. . . . I'm sure that surprises many of you! However, working with Cubs we use written and/or spoken rules to help young boys see how the Law of the Pack and the CS Promise can have everyday meaning for them; and, help them choose situationally appropriate actions. The Law and Promise are great starting points, but the Cubs benefit from explanation and examplification (though I think I may have just made up that word!). Just as important, however, is the value these examples and explanations have for adults - Leaders and

Karl_, Welcome! Most people will probably just ignore you, and perhaps, I should, as well. This electronic campfire is a truly important tool for people interested in Scouting. You don't have to be a Scout, but most of us here are pretty serious about our efforts to help boys grow up in an increasingly complicated world. They're not just Scout Leaders, but most are Mothers and Fathers doing their best for their children. If you have something worthwhile to bring to the table, these people will take you seriously. If you're just here to entertain yourself, you probably won't get

I hate to jump in at the last minute (and after reading 4 pages, I hope we are nearing the last minute!!) but I have some questions. (I had some witty comments, but at this point I think they would just come off as stirring the pot, so I'll stick to my questions!) Semantics aside, is the problem with "rules" that they have specific consequences, or perhaps their inconsistency with the Oath and Law? Are you guys comfortable with guidelines that are developed to clarify situational adherence of the Oath and Law? How about examples that help Cubs and younger Scouts learn and internalize t

Illinois - No Michigan - yes jd

OGE, Isn't it a great feeling when your own ideas start to make sense!?!?!?!?! BW, I believe you want all units to follow BSA policies - advancement, and everything else; and units should be able to state it the way you posted - but many, by choice could not. Doesn't Hunt make a good point that most parents only know what the local unit tells them? If a unit isn't following the rules it would be complicated for a parent to ever figure it out. Maybe, OGE has a point. And maybe Hunt's idea needs to be tweaked a bit, but his point is there. I think National could go a li

Dug, I know it's not simple, but it's a negative if he stays, AND a negative if he goes?? I'm comfortable viewing shades of gray, but that's got even me wishing for black and white! Respectfully, I suggest putting all that adult socio-poltical gooo on the side and ask yourself, and your co-leaders, what's best for the largest number of boys -- looking long term, of course. A wise man once said, "...Honestly, if this scout was any other scout he would have been cut a long while ago . . . hes a constant moral (The wise man probably meant "morale" ) sapper and has installed

acco40, oh, Great Worm Can Opener, Well played, but tell me do you prefer the newer lighter bullet proof vests or the traditional heavier, more solid ones?? You must have truly troubled many of your teachers along your journey!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shades of gray, all I see are shades of gray . . . jd

or-scouter, luckily these types are few and far between! Haven't you ever seen a teacher who seemingly didn't like children or a librarian who didn't want to let you take books out of the library? A lawyer who broke the law? A doctor who smoked? Don't let it get to ya! Solve this problem and move past it. There's too much good to celebrate - focus on that!! There's a lot of foibles in all of us, I guess. Thankfully, most of us don't suffer too publicly for quirks that are too extreme!!! Atleast I keep telling myself, no one's noticing!! jd

Even if the boys/Pack/families can't find a way to pay for the belt loops, those are still great activities! The offer a wide range of fun topics to explore. Also, try any of the "Other" awards (not for the patch, but for the fun and adventure!) like, World Conservation, Leave no Trace, Religious Awards, etc. Does your state offer a "state" badge? Take day trips to local museums, take a tour of the "big kids" school, if you've been to the fire dept. and police dept, try a doctor's office, local politicians, supermarkets, teachers, libraries and restaurants, etc. You just CAN'T run o

Snakeeater, good point about the job interview, but that's really the difference between a "formal" occasion and a "casual/less formal" occasion. We wouldn't expect the boy to show up for his BOR in a troop t-shirt or even a BSA Activity shirt, either. But what I was getting at was that there didn't seem to be an established "no earring" standard for other "formal" uniformed events in this troop. As a Cub Scouter, I will confess to the limit of my BSA knowledge. I understand the BOR is significant, but the Scout's best uniformed look is worn throughout the year for other reason

Sorry, I can't give you the names (I'm just a lowly Wolf DL - we're not really aloowed out into the woods too much!), but I'm sure there are camp songs about Scout Leaders. Isn't the point that these colleagues are (can be) heroes becuase of their impact on boys? Don't forget the Fire Magic!!

Dug, it seems like you know the answer just not the method of achieving it. I'm a Cub leader (DL, CC and Trainer), so keep my views in perspective. I do. But, I know kids (12 years of high/middle school teaching and 4 years of Principaling), and I did Philmont twice as a teen - once as crew chief with my father as crew leader. He was not physically prepared for the trip; it almost killed him. Luckily, his head was stronger than his body and together we found ways to make it work. The better answer would have been for him to stay home, but it's hard to tell a Scouter (eventually a Sil

Thank you, Scoutldr. And, Thank You, Capt. Edge. Though not all Eagles, and often without a forum member to speak for their remembrance, we can be sure that MANY of our soldiers were Scouts. One of the humbling parts of our work is that we often succeed. Helping boys grow into the kind of men who will give everything for others, is what we do; it's who we are; it's who we help them to become -- "Two!"(This message has been edited by johndaigler)

Time to ask the COR to find a new CC! jd Who borrowed my copy of the "add nothing to the requirements ..." lecture????(This message has been edited by johndaigler)

I didn't mean to sidetrack the thread and I'd rather not be the processed-cheese-food-slice in a Packsaddle/Rooster7 sandwich. I'm already fed up with Dusty Baker and the Cubs, and I always wait till after the NFL draft to talk about it, so back to this alcohol/driving thing . . . I think, that if you accept the first glass, but know that somewhere along the line Mr. Z is going to cross into immorality - then aren't we saying that morality is gray and flexibly applied? Mind you, I'm not making that argument. I'm asking a question. Someone spoke to the cultural traditions of shari