John-in-KC

ScoutNut, Trust me, that's how it happens in the Army, especially in a live-fire incident. But this is Scouting. Why didn't the SPL have a look at the Patrol roster? PL should not have been the cook. Where was the rest of the Troop youth leadership as the Patrol conducted E&E? Why weren't adults looking around and keeping a calm but adult eye on things? Sounds to me like lots of training opportunities, mentoring opportunities, and Scoutmasters Minutes here... but not necessarily a removal of the PL for cause. May I ask if there is a deeper backstory?

Why didn't the boys do the research? The Committee undercut the youth and the Scoutmaster. This sounds to me as though we're in the Adult Run Troop Method. This should have never happened in the Committee. This should have been a quiet word from CC to SM "Please, have PLC research and settle the 2010 camp in time for requesting space." SM has word with SPL, it goes on PLC agenda. Let the youth narrow the list, let the youth decide on the Plan A and Plan B camps. Then, the District Commish would not have had a leg to stand on. The youth members would have been doing the program things they are supposed to do. As it is, your unit may now get a lot of "friendly visitation" if the DC chooses to have a visit with the COR. Unintended consequences... Stosh has the right of this one...

Since this is on a DOD installation B, This happens every week. New man comes in to take charge of some activity. Usually, he/she has the good sense to close his mouth and open his eyes for the first month or so...

Beavah, Maybe because Gunny is as expert at small arms (to include crew-served weapons) as you are at canoeing, trapping, and legaling... He has a point though: Ranges run by amateurs are not fun places to be.

But you did accept. Scoutmaster is an honor and a responsibility. It means people trust you to be a major part of raising their young men. You're the lab leader who will teach them more about democracy, in a practical way, than any Government teacher. You're the example of all that is the Scout Law, teaching them about good character by your actions. You're the guy who will make sure they learn the outdoor skills. You won't teach them; they'll teach themselves, but you're the one keeping a weather eye on things. Scoutmaster means they're all your sons.

Twocubdad, Just to be sure... my comment was "How many units actually follow...?" I've yet to encounter a Pack, Troop, Team, or Crew that had people knocking down the doors to get an adult leadership position. Most of the time, it's been beg and scrape.. I yield the floor on this point of personal privilege....

First, at the level of a Council (a non-profit or not-for-profit corporation), there has to be governance and transparency. That means votes and records. I don't think we're talking about Council levels. In units, particularly in Boy Scouts, Varsity, and Venturing, there is/should be voting. We're trying to make the citizenship aim of Scouting happen by letting the youth act as a miniature society. If I read the literature at all correctly, the youth are the ones who should make the major program decisions ... where to go to camp, when to take that trip, what is the fun activity the Crew is going to do? Voting is essential to the youth program In units, our job as adults is to support the program: We should treat the program presented to us as requirements to be met. It's our job to support them. Sometimes, we're going to have to say no: Think about last year, and gas prices. Can you say "it's appetite suppresant time on those trips, Mr SPL?" I know committees that did. I think the question comes to this: How often is voting really necessary? Leader selection? How many units actually follow the process in 18-891, Selecting Quality Leaders, or 13-500, Selecting Cub Scout Leadership. The rank ordering process, well I guess you could use voting for it. It's a technique to make a tough call. I happen not to like it. Major expenditures, such as a new Troop trailer, or replacing the tentage? Yes, I can see a vote, especially if the Troop has to commit time and energy to raising money for it. We make too much in the adult side of Scouting be in the realm of "needing a vote," when it would be far more preferable to operate on collegiality and consensus. Remember though: Too much of anything can be bad. B, you pointed out if a Committee acts sheeplike, consensus can damage more than it can help.

48 days. Had he done 48 days 32 years ago, this would be a non-issue, administratively. He's going to spend more time in the Swiss slammer awaiting extradition, and incur a heckuva lot more costs, than if he'd taken the days and been done with it. He's effectively done the other part of this: Voluntary deportation. He's been home-based in France for 30-odd years. This sure feels like a Forrest Gump moment to me... (The matter of his being a child sex offender is obviously not a non-issue, at least to us Scouters)

Agreed: Let's start by having you call your friendly unit commissioner. Don't have one, you say? Not so. Every unit in BSA has a Commissioner: If the UC is missing, the District Commissioner is your unit commissioner. He's close to the ground, and can provide lots of support. Next, like Sctlder, there's a lot to wade through. Are you staffed properly? Here's some info on how the adult side of the Pack forms to present and support program to kids: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/AboutCubScouts/ThePack.aspx Are you all trained? The adult side of Scouting is a team, and we either provide program (Cubmasters and Den Leaders) or support the program (the Committee). Training helps us work as a team better. Cub Scouting is collaboration. We all have to play nice, or it doesn't work. Take a breath, relax, and go have a cup of coffee with the CM. Find out what his vision is for the Pack, and what his goals are for program. Take a look at the calendar together, make sure the things you're wanting to do support the program he's charged to implement. Keep us informed. Scouting is a learning curve for adults, but good cheer helps it go ...

sherminator, Check with your DE. LDS has a 3 boy minimum, all other Chartered Partners have a 5 boy minimum. He'll get you the citation. HTH.

This is theeee only fight song That they knooo ho how to play - ay! (You don't want to hear EagleSon's marching band version of the song...trust me...it's a Big 12 rivalry thing) Or who else remembers Reba singing It's the Spirit of Oklahoma.... TeeeVeee Nine! Artillerymen are grown in Oklahoma Fortress Sill, in fact. I've been there 3 times; twice for schools and once as my duty station. Yes, OK is warm. Air Conditioning weather down there should be ending pretty soon I can remember asking for rose` wine in the 70s in an Oklahoma club; they mixed red and white for me. Yep. So, the honey bear with creamer needs not only to go in the bear bag, but that particular bear bag needs to be left in Amarillo SctDad, Philmont books 2 years ahead of date. The lottery in either preparation or execution right now is for the 2011 summer. Councils also get treks. Some Councils have seats to spare, others can't get enough. In my Council, if you train for 2010 as a "reserve" (you're not part of the guaranteed crew), then in 2011 you are guaranteed a space on the trek. Contact your Council camping folks, they'll be able to help you with that.

Welcome to the Forums His Tiger patch is a badge of rank. They should not have sold it to you at all, unless you gave them an advancement report. When your son earns Tiger is when he's entitled to wear the patch on his left breast pocket. HTH, and have fun on the trail...

sec338, These remarks caught my attention... Since our SM is now working nights and can't make meetings I have filled in for him which looks like its going to be for a long time. We only have 4 active Boy scouts and no MB counselers that I know of. Let me take the two in the second sentence first. 4 Boys: Unless your Troop is chartered by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, your Troop is below minimum youth membership to recharter. I do not know what your charter cycle is, but this is a risk: The kids can lose their Troop unless a fifth boy becomes part of the mix. No MB Counselors: Don't worry!!! Yes, many Troops have in-house MB Counselors, but many of us think that the Adult Association Method of Scouting is better reinforced when the boys have to go to someone they've not met. For now, you need to contact your District Advancement Chairman (or your friendly Unit Commissioner) and ask for the District Merit Badge Counselor roster. Get to know those folks. Many are Scouters wearing the MBC hat in addition to what they do for a unit, the District, or the Council. Now, to the first: I hate to say this, but the relationship of a Scoutmaster to a Troop (well in this case, a Patrol) is that of mentor. If he is going to have to be out of the loop for a long time because of employment, it's time to re-look leadership. I cannot recommend strongly enough that your Scoutmaster have a quiet office session with your Committee Chair and your COR. Is he short-serving the youth by having to delegate his work to someone else? Has he become a patch-holder? Leadership and training of these young men is why we adults put on the uniform. The right thing may be that he's an ASM without portfolio, and someone else steps up to the plate. I wish you well. Please do keep us informed.

Lisa's last is my point. What is incentivized is focused after the fact, and is focused on the small scale. Yes, Pack, we need to look at where wind can contribute, where hydro can contribute, and where geothermal can contribute. The fact of the matter is there are places where coal is the optimum, for now. Agree on hydro, but I know environmentalists who shout "Save the Whitewater as loudly as others shout "decrease air pollution", or "no solar panels in our deserts." That last is Dianne Feinstein of CA, btw, talking about some open desert between Los Angeles and Las Vegas). Glad we're not talking nuclear. Hearing people call nuclear "green" makes me laugh. It' won't be green until we find a good way to deal with the various radioactive stuff that comes from a hot vessel. Personally, I think ANWR has become a symbol. It'd be nice to drill, but I believe there are viable energy alternatives especially West of the Mississippi. Hope this makes sense...

Welcome to the Forums ... Have you had cups of coffee with the Chartered Organization Representatives for both the Pack and the Troop? What is their take on where you are needed? To be blunt, the parenting relationship should not matter in where you serve. I've been a committeeman and MB Counselor all the time EagleSon was a youth member in the Troop, and was an ACM in his Pack. To my way of thinking, go where you can best serve the young people of your area. Then, it's all good I'd sure like to hear how you finally decide (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

The simple fact is we do need to be more creative about obtaining energy, and we can be. Wind and geothermal are both huge potential inputs to the electrical grid. If we tapped more geothermal, I'll bet we could hugely run down the cost per Kwh over time and supply more, while also reducing the pollutants from coal. That, though, would take some actual imagination on Congresses part to incentivize wind, solar and geothermal, and after all.... 1 Useless Man is called a Disgrace 2 are called a Law Firm and 3 or More become a CONNNN...Gress. ...spoken by John Adams in 1776

Do all the Gatorade bottles have to go in the bear bag at night??? I'd rather be a pedant about bear safety on the trek than about the 2.0oz AV needed for a nalgene bottle.

There are unadulterated versions of that session on youtube. Without the histrionics, they are actually better for ramming home the point.

BRAVE THRIFTY (It's an old answer, thus free) CHEERFUL (Should have heard the laughter from the old Cubs in the room)(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

RS, In my neck of the woods, we had a Unit Serving scouter who was caught and convicted for YP issues. Remember the guy on the National Executive Staff? No, YP training will be part of being a Scouter forever now. Sadly, the sons of guns are out there, and so are the ambulance chasing lawyers.

He's cross-posted this topic at the open forum as well. Sigh.

Mark, Welcome to the fold. I see EagleSon with all his warts, I don't cut him very much slack at all. The praise I hear about him from others reminds me he's really becoming a nice young adult. Were that all parents were this way... One option for you is to consider not counseling any merit badges while you serve as SM. Unless you're the only guy in your Council with that skill, it eliminates one responsibility from your plate. Even if you're the very best in your Troop, you can always encourage others to grow and step up to be Counselors and cover your field.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

trying to keep up with all of the routine jobs was degrading what needed to be done. Mentoring the youth in your charge, mating them to people who would best help them grow and develop hobbies and life skills, is a routine job?? You, Sir, have abrogated a basic responsibility of your position. Shame on you. Your youth deserve your personal mentorship in assigning Counselors. This is clearly denoted in the BSA program literature.

To amplify on SctDad ... Any entering Cub Scout earns Bobcat. That's his preparation to embark on any of the Cub trails. Please also remember each rank (T, W, B, W (badge)) is independent of all other ranks. A Cub can join as late as beginning W2 time

Yep, I have Lion on my Cub uniform. One time a RT staffer asked the question: What does Webelos mean? Me, being in s------- mode, gave the answer I learned: Wolf, Bear, Lion, Scout! When she said "no", another old Scouter popped in and said: "Hey, that's how I learned it too..." and she lost her class The staffer was more than a little taken aback. Object lesson for the staffer: Know the other possible answers for any question you ask. Actually, there was very little change, beyond the cover between the 1965 and the previous edition of BS Handbook.